Do you guys think AB and EB killed Zahra?

[Elphaba]

Not sure if there is enough questionable variables in this case to create debatable "what if" scenarios that don't include one or the other, or both. I'm sitting here thinking it over and I'm stumped... even if she died from an illness, the neglect factor would still finger them.

 

[grayjay]

Nope. Nope. Not going there after all the details we've discussed. For starters, the 911 calls are incriminating. Then the $1 million ransom note that EB admitted to writing. Then from there it goes on and on.

jmo

 

[sarx]

I think there is a slim possibility someone else did the act itself and they then covered it up. But even with that they are still guilty of a whole lot of other things leading up to and after it, and I think I'd rather not go there.

 

[Bia.]

I read an account where AB was away from the home for a few days, somewhere here, in one of the Zahra threads...I'll try to locate it...

The night he came home was the night of the fire, so I'm thinking this is all on EB...Not quite sure if AB aided in the coverup but he must have known the ransom note was written by EB, at that time of the 911 call. I wonder if her writtings (we really didn't kill her but what AB did after was somewhat horrifying) was all just BS or he did help after the fact. Either way, wouldn't absolve him, he should have called 911 immediately if he found out Zahra died at the hands of EB...this child should not have been scattered and buried but it appears, they found Zahra near one of the homes EB used to reside. Filicide studies has shown women who kill will bury the remains within 5 miles of their own home, usually in a womblike tomb.... So this is what is familiar to EB...her disconnect, her selfishness, her narcisisism shows in those letters. She misses her waterbed for goodness sake...JMHO

I believe LE will find out the whats and whos of Zahra's demise, they did such a diligent job finding Zahra...AB not being under arrest doesn't matter right now. They know where he's at and I'm sure they confiscated his passport, so he's not going anywhere. They know where EB is at, that high bail wont' be met, so, she's not going anywhere...I just hope she doesn't commit suicide before murder charges are brought foward...if she is narcisistic, she won't take her own life. So, if shes' kept away from the other prisoners, she's safe for the moment...JMHO


Justice for Zahra

AB definitely had part in it. There's no way she dismembered Z and went out and dug a huge hole by herself. Plus, the 911 call is all I need to know he was involved.

I think everyone is so focused on the "evil step mommy" label that they are ignoring the facts. AB may look like an innocent man who is just plain old dumb but I think he was the mastermind behind this entire thing. No sane person can dismember a human body and walk around like nothing happened.

 

[songline]

WHAT IF :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:
how many ways can we turn the other cheek? and Why?

 

[sherryk]

I just do not see anyone else involved. A few of the reasons are that :
No homes of anyone else were searched.
No leaks have come out of ANY other person even suspected.
If anyone else were involved EB garbage she spews would of hinted to the fact. She blames AB but no one else.

If anyone else could of been involved they should at least have had them write the ransom note.

If I could think of any reason to post that anyone else could possibly be involved I would do so, however I just can not find a reason to suspect anyone else. AB and EB were tormenting this little girl for years and it finally led to death.

 

[sarx]

I honestly hope that the things that have popped into my head are just straying thoughts, because the other possibilities are actually worse (yes, that is possible).

 

[ScorpRising]

Trying to wrap my head around such an improbability for a few weeks now.

I'm sure most will disagree with this but I'm still not convinced of AB's involvement. What if he really was away for work? Have his whereabouts been confirmed? EB, IMO, is completely evil.

What if EB arranged some sick, sadistic ritual and ZB was the "sacrifice"? The other participants would've been her help in disposal and burial. Who'd give EB up? She scares the poop out of me and I'm a few states away.

Pure speculation but I'm guessing collagen was found in the drains of the house that just about every piece of plumbing was taken. Collagen is reflective when a light is shined down a drain, therefore not difficult to detect. It doesn't all go away no matter how much water is ran through those drains.

So, I guess to try and answer your question, chief, if my speculation is correct... Who else had time to come into a house, dismember a child (that would've been left home alone), do what they believe is a thorough cleanup, and be out before either adult resident comes back home? NO ONE.

 

[TxLady2]

I don't normally agree with NG very often, but I have to say she is right on with her belief that a child would not just up and die from a recurring cancer 2 weeks after she was seen at a furniture store, fit and healthy. Those who wish to can argue that all day long, but it is my belief and I'm sticking to it.

There is also the statement from Elisa that "we didn't really kill her...." which could be pretty close to the truth. Zahra could have been seriously ill from a virus, became dehydrated, unable to walk without the prosthetic leg, too weak from a high fever to call out for help, and nobody checked on her for days. I doubt that either of them actually murdered her, but I do believe they were scared to report it to authorities and concocted a plan to hide her body and then Elisa came up with this story of reporting that she was abducted instead of the boss's daughter. Makes sense to me.

I can't for the life of me understand how a father could chop up his own child's body, but I'm sure Elisa didn't do it on her own.

 

[TxLady2]

Trying to wrap my head around such an improbability for a few weeks now.

I'm sure most will disagree with this but I'm still not convinced of AB's involvement. What if he really was away for work? Have his whereabouts been confirmed? EB, IMO, is completely evil.

What if EB arranged some sick, sadistic ritual and ZB was the "sacrifice"? The other participants would've been her help in disposal and burial. Who'd give EB up? She scares the poop out of me and I'm a few states away.

Pure speculation but I'm guessing collagen was found in the drains of the house that just about every piece of plumbing was taken. Collagen is reflective when a light is shined down a drain, therefore not difficult to detect. It doesn't all go away no matter how much water is ran through those drains.
So, I guess to try and answer your question, chief, if my speculation is correct... Who else had time to come into a house, dismember a child (that would've been left home alone), do what they believe is a thorough cleanup, and be out before either adult resident comes back home? NO ONE.

I'm curious as to what you are referring to in regards to collagen. Can you explain, please? I've seen no mention of it, does it have something to do with the construction of the prosthetic leg? Sorry... this just jumped out at me, but I am not criticizing you, just a bit confused. Thanks!

 

[chief]

WHAT IF :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:
how many ways can we turn the other cheek? and Why?

Please don't misinterpret what I am trying to say. In NO WAY am I insinuating we turn the other cheek.

I just wonder if they could have been involved in something much deeper that could have put Zahra in danger and then they panicked and tried to cover for what had happened so they could deflect the blame?????

Not that I think AB is not guilty, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around a father doing something so despicable and evil to his own daughter?

 

[Beyond Belief]

i haven't learned how they found the spot she was found so I can't elaborate too much, but that step is way out there as far as I am concerned.

 

[ScorpRising]

I'm curious as to what you are referring to in regards to collagen. Can you explain, please? I've seen no mention of it, does it have something to do with the construction of the prosthetic leg? Sorry... this just jumped out at me, but I am not criticizing you, just a bit confused. Thanks!

No problem! I hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere and was prepared for the question! I watched too many episodes of New Detectives and FBI Files...

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-collagen.htm

Collagen is one of the most plentiful proteins present in the bodies of mammals, including humans.

 

[LCoastMom]

I don't normally agree with NG very often, but I have to say she is right on with her belief that a child would not just up and die from a recurring cancer 2 weeks after she was seen at a furniture store, fit and healthy. Those who wish to can argue that all day long, but it is my belief and I'm sticking to it.

There is also the statement from Elisa that "we didn't really kill her...." which could be pretty close to the truth. Zahra could have been seriously ill from a virus, became dehydrated, unable to walk without the prosthetic leg, too weak from a high fever to call out for help, and nobody checked on her for days. I doubt that either of them actually murdered her, but I do believe they were scared to report it to authorities and concocted a plan to hide her body and then Elisa came up with this story of reporting that she was abducted instead of the boss's daughter. Makes sense to me.

I can't for the life of me understand how a father could chop up his own child's body, but I'm sure Elisa didn't do it on her own.

I'm not saying it is probable or that I think it happened - but my cousin was declared cancer free in Aug, I saw him Sept 29, he looked wonderful - in Oct they found the CA was back, he passed away last week.

Until 6 months ago this man had been healthy and living his life - Zahra had been thru hell over the last 5 years - While I have no doubt the CA could have killed her - I have less doubt that AB DID kill her - through outright abuse or neglect and AB let her.

 

[nosysw]

Please don't misinterpret what I am trying to say. In NO WAY am I insinuating we turn the other cheek.

I just wonder if they could have been involved in something much deeper that could have put Zahra in danger and then they panicked and tried to cover for what had happened so they could deflect the blame?????

Not that I think AB is not guilty, but I can't seem to wrap my brain around a father doing something so despicable and evil to his own daughter?

I can't quite either. I do believe EB may have covered up many things so that the extent of her abuse wasn't know to AB but obviously denial does not excuse him in any way. I think she is pure evil and he may have been frightened of her but that does not excuse him in any way.

I don't know exactly what he was into before leaving Australia but if he was as sick and twisted as his new wife I would hope his mother who was supposedly a major caretaker for Z would have stepped in to stop him from taking her and/or monitored the situation alot more closely than what is apparent.

I do wonder if they both weren't part of something bigger and scarier than even themselves which Z ended up falling victim too due to their overzealousness and EB being completely evil.

I guess I don't know where I'm going with this other than to say I think the picture is bigger than either of them and I can't picture the person AB was before EB being necessarily 100% the cause of her death as EB was. But, he is definitely as culpable IMHO as that was his daughter and no matter how it plays out I find him responsible for her death as he introduced her to evil and evil took her life...

 

[ScorpRising]

No problem! I hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere and was prepared for the question! I watched too many episodes of New Detectives and FBI Files...

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-collagen.htm

Collagen is one of the most plentiful proteins present in the bodies of mammals, including humans.

Hate quoting myself but I'm referring to bone collagen in particular.

 

[sunsetbeach]

I think there is a slim possibility someone else did the act itself and they then covered it up. But even with that they are still guilty of a whole lot of other things leading up to and after it, and I think I'd rather not go there.

Yeah like abuse of a corpse.

 

[Sherbie]

I've been lurking for most of this case. Just coming out to play devil's advocate.

So, what if neither AB nor EB killed Zahra? What other scenarios are possible? I'm interested to see what all your brilliant minds come up with.

FYI - I am NOT advocating that either are innocent. Just looking for other directions of thought...

One or both of them had to be involved in her death, IMO, either by flatout murdering her or by means of neglect of a medical condition. If I recall correctly, there have been several cases recently where parents were charged with second degree murder for medical neglect so egregious that it caused death.

This case doesn't seem to have the potential for a SODDI defense. If there were another party involved, I believe it would be in addition to them, not instead of them -- someone known to them and in cahoots with them. Clearly, EB has admitted knowing what happened to Zahra, has admitted writing the ransom note (could not possibly be coincidence that Zahra "went missing" at the same time), has claimed AB did something terrible after her death.

Facing potential murder charges, the only reason to protect a third party (other than loyalty to that person, which EB might have but which AB wasn't here long enough to have, IMO) would be that implicating that person would further implicate themselves. In theory, it's possible EB and a protected accomplice might try to pin it all on AB, but I can't see it the other way around.

SODDI just won't work here, even if there were a third party. JMO.

 

[westsidefox64]

AB definitely had part in it. There's no way she dismembered Z and went out and dug a huge hole by herself. Plus, the 911 call is all I need to know he was involved.

I think everyone is so focused on the "evil step mommy" label that they are ignoring the facts. AB may look like an innocent man who is just plain old dumb but I think he was the mastermind behind this entire thing. No sane person can dismember a human body and walk around like nothing happened.

BBM
Where is everyone getting huge hole from? If you look at the pictures of the hole there is a small hole, (my estimate would be possibly 3 to 3 1/2 ft deep and a couple feet wide) inside the big hole dug by LE. I dont think anyone dug a 10 ft by 2 ft hole when she was buried. JMO I see no reason why an able bodied woman of EBs age and build couldnt dig that hole.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Trying to wrap my head around such an improbability for a few weeks now.

I'm sure most will disagree with this but I'm still not convinced of AB's involvement. What if he really was away for work? Have his whereabouts been confirmed? EB, IMO, is completely evil.

What if EB arranged some sick, sadistic ritual and ZB was the "sacrifice"? The other participants would've been her help in disposal and burial. Who'd give EB up? She scares the poop out of me and I'm a few states away.

Pure speculation but I'm guessing collagen was found in the drains of the house that just about every piece of plumbing was taken. Collagen is reflective when a light is shined down a drain, therefore not difficult to detect. It doesn't all go away no matter how much water is ran through those drains.

So, I guess to try and answer your question, chief, if my speculation is correct... Who else had time to come into a house, dismember a child (that would've been left home alone), do what they believe is a thorough cleanup, and be out before either adult resident comes back home? NO ONE.

I hope LE has looked into the connections EB and/or AB made online and in other places. I've always felt the "goth", "vampire", and pagan stuff was not all harmless and silly. I've had a bad feeling about this case from day one.
Unfortunately, it's just a feeling, and there's no evidence so far to support any further speculation. I wonder what information their computers have yielded.