Eerie Similarity?

[K777angel]

"You are either moving toward Him (God), or away from Him, - but always - "HE" is at the center. ~St. Augustine~

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Four doctors who independently evaluated Mrs. Laney determined she had four psychotic episodes prior to the killings and agreed her mental disorder probably began about three years before. She suffers from "psychotic delusional disorder," both defense and prosecuting attorneys have said.

http://www.zwire.com/site/News.cfm?BRD=1994&dept_id=226369&newsid=11194338&PAG=461&rfi=9

 

[why_nutt]

Four doctors who independently evaluated Mrs. Laney determined she had four psychotic episodes prior to the killings and agreed her mental disorder probably began about three years before. She suffers from "psychotic delusional disorder," both defense and prosecuting attorneys have said.

http://www.zwire.com/site/News.cfm?BRD=1994&dept_id=226369&newsid=11194338&PAG=461&rfi=9

Since Patsy has not been examined by the likes of Park Dietz, I think the jury is still out on whether Patsy might fit that diagnosis. This is a woman who, in 1994, claimed she saw an angel in the form of a nurse named Bethany, who looked exactly like John's dead daughter Beth down to her shade of lipstick. This is a woman who claimed, on 48 Hours, that her six-year-old daughter "had eyes which could look right through you," though of the hundreds of people who have passed through the forums, not a one has noted this characteristic in the photos and videos of JonBenet they have seen, yourself included. This is a woman who wanted to give her child, as a special present, a doll whose first impression was that of being a dead child. This is a woman who claims that she experienced a religious phenomenon called in the Catholic church the "Veil of Mary," though there is no thing in the Catholic religion. This is a woman who has specifically said she heard the voice of God tell her to celebrate Christmas, and who also specifically said that the voice and the words said did not come from her. This is a woman who turned her back on the modest religious practices of Peachtree Presbyterian, despite having loved it for years, in favor of migrating to a Charismatic church whose religious focus was far more intense.

You tell me, LovelyPigeon. Do you literally see dead relatives well enough to recognize they are wearing the same shade of lipstick they wore in life? Do you literally hear voices telling you to do things like decorate Christmas trees?

 

[shamu]

My experience has been that those people ridicule organized religion and the people who try to follow it because they are pretty much ignorant of the true teachings of the Bible.

Does it teach that the Christian members of a family will bask in heaven while their loved ones burn in hell?

Yet the ones in heaven will be blissfully happy nonetheless?

Even as any beloved-but-unbelieving family members scream in hell for an eternity?

Devout parents surely must fret about a child’s religious beliefs—might the child grow up to shed the family’s religiosity? What if he/she later loses faith? If child presently believes in God, killing them now might save them from hell—where roasting for a billion years is barely the beginning. If killing can spare the child such torture, then—given the brevity of life and the eternity of hell—there could be no greater gift. Perp/parent can then confess to God about the killing, & get forgiven & be saved. Voila! Parent and child go to heaven to be together happily ever after.

This would be an understandable course of action, if hell exists—and as far as xtians “know,” it does.

No, they aren’t supposed to kill. But they aren’t supposed to do other things that they do anyway. (Lying, etc.) If it’s for a decent reason they’ll find a way to rationalise.

What better reason to kill than to ensure a child’s salvation?

 

[Britt]

Is it God's fault that people kill in his name? No, it is the people who do the killing. "In the name of God" is their own excuse for justification, not His.

I completely agree, Cookie, and this is a good example of the distinction between religion and spirituality that many of us make. I am spiritual but not religious. I equate spirituality with God, but I equate religion with man. IMO, ALL religious arbitrariness belongs in the same category as the above example: it is all of MAN and has nothing to do with God. All religious dogma is their own excuse for justification, not His.

Don't blame God for man's shortcomings and their evil actions.

I agree. Likewise, don't ascribe to God that which comes from the mind of man. One of the issues I have with organized religion is the arrogance that dares to speak for God. IMO.

As for my own opinion, there is sometimes far more damage done by psychiatrists and psychologists than men preaching God's word.

I would say, there is damage done by man, period... whether that "man" is a shrink or a religious leader. Religious leaders are not synonymous with God. Man is man.

 

[Shylock]

I agree. Likewise, don't ascribe to God that which comes from the mind of man.

Well geeez Britt, that REALLY sticks you out there on your own. Everything to do with "God" came from the mind of man.

It was man who asked, "Why am I here?"
It was man who asked, "What happens when I die?"

It was man who invented God as an answer to those questions.

IMO

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Excellent post, WolfmarsGirl. I totally agree and couldn't have said it better.

imo

Thanks Ivy

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Four doctors who independently evaluated Mrs. Laney determined she had four psychotic episodes prior to the killings and agreed her mental disorder probably began about three years before. She suffers from "psychotic delusional disorder," both defense and prosecuting attorneys have said.

http://www.zwire.com/site/News.cfm?BRD=1994&dept_id=226369&newsid=11194338&PAG=461&rfi=9

Ok, LP. Here, let's count:

1) Patsy glimpsed the Twinn doll and had a vision of JBR dead in her coffin.
2) Patsy saw Beth...Way after Beth was dead.
3) Patsy believed she brought death into her home by decorating with purple.
4) Patsy was/is a bible-thumper - a psychotic behavior in my opinion.

There's at least four for you. It looks like she is tied with Laney. So, who wins? I guess Laney wins because she got to two of her kids and Patsy only made it to one...(Just kidding on that last point, of course.)

Anyway, LP, why not Patsy? Why is it so impossible to believe that she actually did this to her child?

I mean, all the other women are doing it. So, why not Patsy?

We know nothing about her past mental state. How do we know that she didn't suffer many psychotic episodes that were kept quiet?

Laney's family and friends obviously didn't know about Laney's problems. It looks like these doctors pulled the info out of her after the murders.

You have to admit, it is possible that the same thing happened with Patsy. Unless you know everything that went on in Patsy's mind leading up to the murder, then how can you say it is not possible for this to happen to her?

I just don't get it.

 

[Britt]

Well geeez Britt, that REALLY sticks you out there on your own. Everything to do with "God" came from the mind of man.

It was man who asked, "Why am I here?"
It was man who asked, "What happens when I die?"

It was man who invented God as an answer to those questions.

I said I'm spiritual... not an atheist. I don't buy any of man's interpretations of "God," including the one that says he/she/it doesn't exist.

 

[cookie]

"Does it teach that the Christian members of a family will bask in heaven while their loved ones burn in hell?"
Yet the ones in heaven will be blissfully happy nonetheless?
Even as any beloved-but-unbelieving family members scream in hell for an eternity?"

Yes. Simply put, yes. It is stated that once an individual reaches the age of accountability, then it is up to you to make the choice for what you believe and how you will live. If the rules are laid out for you, and you chose to ignore them, there is always a price to pay. This is no different than breaking any of "man's" laws.

'Devout parents surely must fret about a child’s religious beliefs—might the child grow up to shed the family’s religiosity? What if he/she later loses faith?"

Of course parents fret about their children's religious beliefs. I certainly do about mine. But to me, teaching them God's word is in essence no different than teaching them man's laws. Laws must be obeyed, period. If you break the law, there is punishment. I am always amazed at the "laws". God laid down ten simple, shortly worded laws. If all mankind were to follow these simple ten laws, there would be no need for any more. Instead, man messes with these laws in order for them to be able to break them and justify their actions for their own comfort. As I have told my children when they lived with their fiances before they were married, it is wrong. I find it perfectly understandable to want to, but that doesn't change the fact that I believe it to be wrong. But, they were of the age of accountability and they chose to ignore my opinions and teachings and did it anyway. As I tried to tell them in simple terms they could understand --- God's law is "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry". Nowhere does it say "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultry unless you are really horny or the girl they are wanting to shack up with is a real "FOX"! They were raised differently and taught differently than they chose to behave. Do I worry about their eternal life? You bet! Do I worry about their happiness in this life? You bet? Can I fix it for them with God? Absolutely not! That is something that is between them and God.

"If child presently believes in God, killing them now might save them from hell—where roasting for a billion years is barely the beginning. If killing can spare the child such torture, then—given the brevity of life and the eternity of hell—there could be no greater gift. Perp/parent can then confess to God about the killing, & get forgiven & be saved. Voila! Parent and child go to heaven to be together happily ever after.
This would be an understandable course of action, if hell exists—and as far as xtians “know,” it does.
No, they aren’t supposed to kill. But they aren’t supposed to do other things that they do anyway. (Lying, etc.) If it’s for a decent reason they’ll find a way to rationalise.
What better reason to kill than to ensure a child’s salvation?"

People who kill their children in order to save them from an unhappy life here on earth and hell in the afterlife are not practicing true religion. They are practicing their "own twisted religion". I am not aware of any such teachings in the Bible. As far as forgiveness goes, you only get TRUE forgiveness when you are TRULY repentant and sincere. You can't just go out and do whatever you want and then ask for a little forgiveness and poof it is all wiped away.

 

[shamu]

I realize most Christians wouldn't do this or ever consider it, but it's a possible answer to:

But,why would the belief in an afterlife cause something like this to happen?

 

[jubie]

Sorry to ask this here but...

Where is the best place to see pictures of JBR, when she was still alive and in all those fancy outfits and make-up? My little girl is 7 and I can't imagine getting her all dolled up like that!! IMO!

Thanks!
Jubie

 

[Nehemiah]

Sorry to ask this here but...

Where is the best place to see pictures of JBR, when she was still alive and in all those fancy outfits and make-up? My little girl is 7 and I can't imagine getting her all dolled up like that!! IMO!

Thanks!
Jubie

Try www.acandyrose.com

IMO

 

[Nehemiah]

"Perhaps some of our "religious" posters could help me to understand how only God is credited for the good things that happen to us..."

From the Bible, James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.


IMO

 

[shamu]

It is stated that once an individual reaches the age of accountability, then it is up to you to make the choice for what you believe and how you will live.

Making that choice is like Russian Roulette. No wonder parents who "know" they're right might kill kids rather than risk them making the wrong choice. What if they choose to be Sikh or Hindu; what if they choose Islam or Buddhism or Jainism? They can't possibly know which is the correct choice---yet the result for guessing wrong is eternal torture?

I do think this is a sick, twisted point of view, & I'm not surprised we see sick, twisted behavior by some who hold such views.

 

[Britt]

Where is the best place to see pictures of JBR, when she was still alive and in all those fancy outfits and make-up? My little girl is 7 and I can't imagine getting her all dolled up like that!!

Hi Jubie. Here's a good place for those photos (thanks to our own Maketoast ). Click on "pictures" and then on "JonBenet Ramsey photos":

http://www.maketoast.com/index3.htm

The photos with the Royal MIss outfit and the white and gold showgirl outfit are also in Dr. Andrew Hodges' book next to photos of Patsy in the same-type outfits (A Mother Gone Bad, pages 10-11 and 102-103). IMO the side by side comparison really illustrates the mother living vicariously through her daughter... those photos make my skin crawl.

 

[Toltec]

Ok, LP. Here, let's count:

1) Patsy glimpsed the Twinn doll and had a vision of JBR dead in her coffin.
2) Patsy saw Beth...Way after Beth was dead.
3) Patsy believed she brought death into her home by decorating with purple.
4) Patsy was/is a bible-thumper - a psychotic behavior in my opinion.




QUOTE]

Patsy believed she brought death into her home by decorating with purple...that must explain the purple dress JonBenet wore Christmas eve.

 

[tipper]

Ok, LP. Here, let's count:

1) Patsy glimpsed the Twinn doll and had a vision of JBR dead in her coffin.
2) Patsy saw Beth...Way after Beth was dead.
3) Patsy believed she brought death into her home by decorating with purple.
4) Patsy was/is a bible-thumper - a psychotic behavior in my opinion.



Patsy believed she brought death into her home by decorating with purple...that must explain the purple dress JonBenet wore Christmas eve.

1. She dismissed it as "silly feelings." It was only in looking back she put any importance on it. When I was little I once had a terrible nightmare about my big brother having his head cut off. I never had nightmares but can vividly remember waking up screaming from that one. 40 years later when he was killed from a broken neck the thought crossed my mind that the dream might have been a premonition. I don't think that makes me psychotic.

2. Though I know I read it somewhere I can't find the Beth/Bethany story. I thought it was in DOI.

3. Again, it wasn't until after JonBenet died Patsy questioned the use of the color purple and ultimately sees it as a positive. "In the extreme pain of our loss, God the Father was standing near with his hand upon the Ramsey family, as interwoven in our lives as the ribbon on the tree."

As far as bible-thumpers go I think Patsy is pretty tame. Although she credits God with healing her (I know some surgeons who give credit to God too) she also mentions the chemo helping AND continues to follow medical advice and have more treatments even after the tumor is pronounced gone. A true holy-roller would have stopped immediately or perhaps wouldn't have relied on anything but prayer in the first place.

I think it's not uncommon to look back and wonder if this or that was a sign that had it been recognized might have helped prevent a tragedy. I don't think it is a useful exercise but I do think it's understandable.

 

[Shylock]

A true holy-roller would have stopped immediately or perhaps wouldn't have relied on anything but prayer in the first place.

A true holy-roller wouldn't have pimped-up her daughter and paraded her across a stage.

 

[shamu]

As far as bible-thumpers go I think Patsy is pretty tame.

Yes, and this is troubling. Patsy is tame compared to some— And Patsy is barking mad.