"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand?

[Vegas Bride]

My opinion has not changed one bit, how I wish I could be on that jury!!! Guilty in the first!
Casey had 1 victim who she could bully and mis-treat and that was Caylee. Casey was tired of always having to bow down to her mother and imo it had to be wearing on her on how she was always having to take so much crap from boyfriends, she was a T and being treated like a T, ok that was her own doing but still it had to be wearing on her, she built up her ego by weaving her stories of job etc, but inside she knew that was all a bunch of crap, she needed to strike out at somebody and the only 1 she could do it to was a little 2 year old, how sick and depraved she is. I would bet money that in the months she's been sitting in jail, she has damned Caylee more than once for the mess she has caused.

As far as showing cod, it would have been so easy for her to kill that baby and leave no sign, G&C could have been sleeping and all Casey had to do was hold a pillow over her face and keep it there, there's no tissue left to show bruising etc. The fact that she was bagged up and thrown away like trash speaking volumes to me!

VB

 

[marla]

G - u - i - l - t - y

 

[Reality Orlando]

I suspect this post will get pulled for being too vague, but I hope I get a little input before that happens.

What I mean by "where do you stand?" is where do you stand emotionally and in your convictions on this case. There has been a lot of new information, videos, images, etc. Are you more firm in what you believe regarding KC's guilt or innocence? Have doubts crept in? Have the recent actions by family or attourneys caused you to waffle at all? Now that the funeral has passed, what are you feeling emotionally?

I ask this because I'm waivering. Here's my problem: I don't WANT KC to be guilty. In my heart I feel that she is, but then I see the video of her playing with Caylee. It reminds me of the something-hundred times I've been on the floor with my own children. The giggles and the smiles are all the same. I didn't want to be able to "relate" to her on any level, but here we are. I never want to see a mother guilty of harming much-less killing their child. It doesn't register for me. I think of how the defense said that the video is GOOD for her defense, and I hate admitting how right they are. It's certainly working for me.

At this point, even as many times as I have loathed certain members of the A family, I feel crushing sadness for them. There was so much life and happiness with Caylee in their lives. I don't even want to imagine the emptiness that lives there instead, it's just too painful. I pray that I will never ever walk in their shoes.

Just last weekend I didn't know where my 4 yr old was for about 10 seconds in a public setting, and it terrified me. That was only the tiniest possible taste of what this poor family is going through.

So now you know where I stand, mostly on an emotional level. How about you? Where do you stand?

I totally agree with you. I don't want to think about a mother killing her child in cold blood. I want to think this was some kind of horrific accident. I don't want to think of Caylee suffering. I think lots of things can be read into the photos and videos we've seen, but I still see a very happy, well loved child who seemed very well adjusted, compassionate and loving to those around her. I do think Casey is responsible for her death, but I just don't see any compelling evidence of premeditated murder. My gut feeling is that Casey, through negligence, allowed something to happen to Caylee and everything since is a huge coverup on her part to not have to face up to her lack of parental responsibility since said negligence can still land her a huge block of prison time, rightly so. I don't have compassion for Casey and do hope she is held responsible for her daughter's death. I do have compassion for the rest of the Anthonys though. No, I don't agree with everything they've said or done and I think they could have handled many things a lot differently, but they've lost a child and for that my heart goes out to them.

 

[Thatchedcottage]

GUILTY...plain and simple...no Anthonyisms.......

 

[angeleleven]

I voted Guilty 1st degree murder - TOTALLY Premeditated.....I'm 100% convinced of my decision.

 

[Mendara]

I voted premed.

The reality is, all the girl had to do was get a REAL JOB to pay for a REAL NANNY and she would have been able to go out on the town once in a while and also move out of her parent's house and have them out of her business.

The problem was she was way too lazy to do that so she eliminated the anchor bringing her down at the same time removing her mother's nagging voice.

The question is for how long would she have gone on with the fake job and nanny story? What was her long time plan, did she have one? I say NO.

I say she just thought most people would be as indifferent to her child as she was and eventually she would choose to ignore her parents and never let them see Caylee again, even though there was no Caylee and maybe she was going to tell TOne that she gave Caylee away to give her a better life.

 

[PennysMom]

If any of you heard the 911 recording of the Ocotmom calling the police because one of her kids was missing, THATS how Casey should have reacted the moment she knew Caylee was missing, I mean, the fear in the voice, the devastation etc....but she opted for many nights out on the town, dancing on tables, with a smile on her face, getting her pic taken with people grabbing her *advertiser censored* etc...I can hear her now, dancing drunk on a table "woooohooooo, take my pic for my myspace, wooohoooo".....she should really burn in Hell. sorry if I sound cold, its just every time I see a sweet pic of little Caylee or now the videos of her, and knowing that she was murdered..geesh! I can't even imagine the trauma she went through at the hands of her own mother!

If I could ask Cindy something it would be
"when Casey was a child, what would you have done if she disappeared, for even a little bit, and you had no idea where she is? what would you do? would you have called the police? would you have been able to sleep not knowing where your baby is? would you scream from the top of your lungs her name till you found her? would you find the rest of your family and friends to help you find your baby? or would you just go on with your life and go out and party?"

to george:
"what changed your outlook on things? you told the police you smelled a dead body in the trunk of the car that Casey drives, you KNOW that smell right? do you really think Casey's lies to the police, to you and your family was to PROTECT your grand baby? did you think Casey was all CSI and a private detective that she was REALLY trying to find little Caylee or protecting you and your other family members? Now you stand by your daughter, you beleive there was a ZANNY? COME ON! I'm sorry for the depression you have gone through, but the truth, the truth your daughter knows will set you free, see the light....honor the memory of little Caylee, she deserves your protection here and NOW!"

and Lee:
" all I have to say to him is, "high five your little sissy now"
there is NO Zanny, wake up!


and to Caseys Lawyers:
I know everybody deserves thier day in court......Casey stole money from her family and friends, how is she paying you? how do you sleep at night? you all have to be pretty intelligent right? all the schooling you have had, the training etc.....how do you live with yourselves knowing your huggining and holding onto the devil in disguise? you all make me sick! trying to protect a woman (little girl) how killed her baby daughter, a little baby who has no chance at life, no chance to live a full life, Casey took that from her, she took that baby from everybody who loved her.....shame shame, I hope you all see Casey in Hell when its time!

whew.....I'm just a little frustrated, lol..sorry if I offended anybody on this board!

 

[dee10134]

I'm with Wudge, not guilty. The presumption of innocence does prevail, but we do have a dead child here, and all evidence points to murder. However, I have yet to see anything to prove to me BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that CASEY herself was the murderer and not someone she associated with or if it was accidental...

 

[January.]

I am really surprised at the 10 people who still think this is an accident, and completely shocked that there are 5 people out there that think she is totally innocent.

Guilty, guilty, guilty! Murder one. No question.

 

[dee10134]

Good question, but lots of answers, imo ---

choking her
suffocating her
overdose on some medication

Any one of those will work with no trauma to the bones.

Choking (or strangulation) would leave fractures (blatant or hairline) to the hyoid bones of the neck (I say "bones" because typically these bones do not fuse together until approximately age 30). If this was the case, Dr. G would have notated that in her autopsy and revised the cause of death to strangulation.

If it was accidental, my vote would go to drowning.

 

[Rumpole]

I am really surprised at the 10 people who still think this is an accident, and completely shocked that there are 5 people out there that think she is totally innocent.

Guilty, guilty, guilty! Murder one. No question.

I have not voted. Not enough evidence yet.

I have argued that the defence could mount a good case given that no COD has been established.

That does not mean that I am not SURE personally that she is as guilty as sin.

 

[dee10134]

Wouldn't it be better to see what all the evidence is first? Can't vote until I've seen the trial and ALL the evidence.

:clap: It's all speculation until then...

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Guilty!! Totally premeditated.

I bet it will only take the jury a few hours to come back with their conviction of First Degree Murder, as well.

 

[Sandreala]

I have nothing but respect for both sides of this case. It is a very hard case to be able to comprehend. I, myself, believe in my heart that KC is 100% guilty of premeditated, malicious murder - not to mention child neglect and abuse. The reasons for my belief are pretty simple. Her reaction, or the "reaction" she claims to have had at the time of Caylee's "abduction" is just too unbelievable. I don't care who you are, you are not going to let anybody hold you down while someone else is taking off with your child. Especially not a woman whom KC described as (if I remember correctly) being 140 lbs and 5'8. A mother's strength when her child is in trouble is immeasurable and not only should KC have tried to help Caylee, but if for some reason she couldn't, she should have called 911 IMMEDIATELY. Even though I believe these events never really occured, I would think KC would have enough wherewithall to say she tried to help Caylee and couldn't. The fact that she didn't even have the motivation to help Caylee in her lie speaks volumes! This is just one of the reasons I believe KC is guilty.
The rest is pretty obvious... The computer searches, the partying, the lies to friends about where Caylee was, the evidence in the car, the found body, the lies to LE, the lack of emotion, the trips to Target for herself with stolen money while her daughter is missing. It all makes me very sick. I don't feel that any jury would be able to overlook these things. Alone they are awful, but together they are unthinkable. She will have her judgement day and god willing Caylee will get some justice.
To sum it up... guilty.

 

[lawlady84]

I always thought this thread was a debate - Greta v. Nancy Grace.

Man I need some sleep !

 

[seagull65]

I vote "other/undecided"!
To me, the tape on the mouth shows that Caylee was murdered, but I'm certainly not sure yet that KC is the murderer. Too many other people were not ruled out, cadaver dogs never taken to the players' homes, vehicles, places of interest, etc. There's also the possibility that the murderer was a stranger. All we know is that either Caylee's body or items that had been in contact with her (deceased) body were placed in the Pontiac trunk and possibly the Anthony backyard. KC is not the only person who had access to Caylee, the trunk, or the Anthony home and backyard.
Why did KC fail to report Caylee missing, that's the question, and why would she still not tell who killed Caylee all this time if she is innocent? Some possibilities: she's guilty, she was involved, she was coerced, she suffers from mental illness, she was drugged or on drugs and doesn't know what happened, or, she was convinced that Caylee was safe during the time she was missing (i.e. believed Caylee was with a friend or something along those lines, maybe as part of a scam she and they were trying to pull.)
Questions that remain: Why did friends who were with KC 24/7 not notice any smell if there was a body in her trunk or her car was reeking of decomposition? (No matter where she parked it in their apartment complex, someone would notice.) How could she drive a car if its trunk was "saturated with chloroform"? Also, if KC were the murderer, or knew Caylee's body was in the trunk of her car, why would she keep it there for days and drive around with it in there? Why would she dispose of the body so near her family home rather in any of a million better places? Why would she leave the tape on the mouth? Why would she put a bunch of items with Caylee's body and leave matching items in her home? Why would she stay in town instead of just leaving and telling her family she had Caylee with her and was starting a new life? What about the scams/frauds related to some of KC's friends in her cell phone (see FrankM thread, car parts scam, etc)? Could they be related in any way? What about the m.r. and other guy (see Keith W thread especially) who were hanging around in the woods near the remains site before the discovery of the body?
What motive could KC have to kill Caylee when there was no history whatsoever of violence or a bad attachment between KC and Caylee? All friends who'd known her throughout Caylee's life said that KC would never harm Caylee or let her be lost and not report her missing. KC had maintained her partying lifestyle throughout Caylee's life, Caylee had been healthy and perfectly fine all that time, right up to June 15. KC knew she could easily let her parents take Caylee if she really wanted to be rid of her motherly responsibilities full time. So what happened in June 08 that resulted in Caylee's death?
Who would have a strong enough motive to murder a small child? A mentally ill person? Someone who molested the child? Children of all ages have certainly been killed in gang retribution crimes. Or did this young mother just have the onset of mental illness or a radical personality change and suddenly murder her child for no reason? Kill her rather than simply dropping her off with family if she wanted to be a free bird?
If KC is a calculating murderer, why didn't she fake like she was worried after the disappearance? Why didn't she report it as a kidnapping at the time? After her arrest, why the strange stories to LE that would be disproved immediately? Why not tell plausible stories to help her own defense such as a complete stranger took Caylee, I didn't get a good look or the tag number? And again, why not put on an a big act of being terrified and griefstricken?
I don't put too much in the computer searches because anybody who watches crime and forensics TV programs might wikipedia or google any of the things KC did. Also, "breakin necks" is a truck club that some of her friends belong to, if she had googled on that club name, the other related items might easily come up. Also, the macabre images on KC's photobucket are (sadly) similar to those on thousands of young people's webpages, her friends had the same kind of images. I think many innocent things might have been twisted into something else in the coverage of this case. That said, I agree with others that the case is very hard to comprehend, I certainly can't rule KC out. I'm having to suspend judgment until the trial. Innocent until proven guilty. I really hope the truth is found for Caylee. My gut feeling is that KC might be convicted mainly due to her failure to report the child missing and her so-called "partying" during the disappearance, but that we will never know what actually happened. Thanks for the thread!

 

[Phumi]

For me the answers here are quite obvious.
Questions that remain: Why did friends who were with KC 24/7 not notice any smell if there was a body in her trunk or her car was reeking of decomposition? (No matter where she parked it in their apartment complex, someone would notice.) It took several days of decomp. for the remains to begin to smell. At some point the fluids leaked into the trunk saturating the carpet. Extended time in the hot sun--closed in the tow yard-- increased the odor considerably. How could she drive a car if its trunk was "saturated with chloroform"? Chloroform came later as a result of a cleaning attempt-- Also, if KC were the murderer, or knew Caylee's body was in the trunk of her car, why would she keep it there for days and drive around with it in there?She had no idea where to put the body. Also she probably was not aware of the process of decomposition and believed she had more time. Why would she dispose of the body so near her family home rather in any of a million better places? Studies by FBI profilers have shown that parents who kill, usually dispose of the child's body within 3 miles of the home. The placement of Caylee actually points MORE to KC's guilt than her innocence. Why would she leave the tape on the mouth? So she could claim it was a kidnapping. Or she just didn't consider that Caylee would be found.Why would she put a bunch of items with Caylee's body and leave matching items in her home?Zanny did it. She made certain to mention that the imaginary nanny had duplicate items of Caylee's things AND a key to the house. Why would she stay in town instead of just leaving and telling her family she had Caylee with her and was starting a new life? She had NO CAR and NO MONEY!! Kinda hard to disappear under these circumstances.

 

[dunlurken]

Negligent homicide. Which is not on the list, so I can't vote. Casey found the dead child. Wrapped her up, included her winnie the pooh blanket ......put duct tape on her mouth (I'm still trying to figure that one out), and a heart over the duct tape.

Chick is one sick *advertiser censored**.

 

[Phumi]

Choking (or strangulation) would leave fractures (blatant or hairline) to the hyoid bones of the neck (I say "bones" because typically these bones do not fuse together until approximately age 30). If this was the case, Dr. G would have notated that in her autopsy and revised the cause of death to strangulation.

If it was accidental, my vote would go to drowning.

FWIW, One of the forensic pathologists on Nancy Grace said that choking does not ALWAYS fracture the hyoid and that this was particularly true in a child. I don't have a link, but I remember it because it surprised me.

 

[Roze]

FWIW, One of the forensic pathologists on Nancy Grace said that choking does not ALWAYS fracture the hyoid and that this was particularly true in a child. I don't have a link, but I remember it because it surprised me.

I recall seeing/hearing that. I also remember hearing that a child's neck would not necessary fracture if the neck was broken because the bone was more flexible (or something along those lines)