Graphic Photos/ Day 6 The Garotte, The Cord, and Paint brush/12 Days of JonBenet

[UKGuy]

If the hair had to be cut at autopsy, that tells me that the stick was not used to pull the cord tight to strangle, but was simply staging.
It appears that her hair is also tangled in the knot around her neck.... Or is it just twisted up by the rope like her necklace? I'm trying to come up with a theory that makes sense to me, so if the knot was tied while around her neck tangling her hair in the knot, I would probably discount an accidental theory.

RaeL,

There used to be a popular theory that the paintbrush and ligature was used as an Erotic Asphyxiation Device, and it all went wrong.

Examining the evidence I noted that JonBenet's hair was embedded into the knotting on the alleged EA Device, meaning it could not have functioned as advertised, i.e. JonBenet would be in extreme pain as the roots of hair were pulled out.

This combined with the Coroner not citing that he found JonBenet's hair severed from the alleged EA Device, allowed me to assume he or an associate had cut it?

So I largely discounted the Erotic Asphyxiation theory from then on and assumed the wine-cellar crime-scene to be mostly fabricated.

I posted my thoughts onto WS. Along with the speculation that the ligature asphyxiation was done to mask a manual asphyxiation, since the head blow whenever delivered plainly needs no staged explanation.

So it could be JonBenet had her vagus nerve compressed and she lost consciousness, falling into a coma. It might be that the head blow was a belated attempt at staging or simply to kill her, finally the ligature was used to kill her?

The exact details and sequence of events can be debated, many do as their theories rely on indeterminate criteria but JonBenet in the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene, likely the result of many hands.

.

 

[Red Viewfinder]

I know! I couldn't believe JR said that, or that he was relieved to find her dead body. Why would a parent ever be relieved to find their dead child? He must actually been glad to have been the one to "find" her, thus contaminating evidence.

You clearly prove that an intruder couldn't have done it! Since there was prior sexual abuse, I'm sure knew JB exactly what was going to happen, and she was fighting back. This person was no stranger to her, which is why these things could not have been done simultaneously, especially without the rest of the household hearing something. Very strong points!

IMO, I think JB was relieved to have her physically back. I can't even imagine the level of fear that must course through you when your child is missing, and presumed kidnapped. I think, for a split second, before he realized the hard fact that she was dead, he was just relieved that she was found.

I don't think that JB killed or molested JBR. I think he was in total shock that Boxing Day.

 

[RaeL]

I posted my thoughts onto WS. Along with the speculation that the ligature asphyxiation was done to mask a manual asphyxiation, since the head blow whenever delivered plainly needs no staged explanation.


Thanks for your thoughts, UKGuy... But wouldn't a manual asphyxiation leave finger marks? The cord left marks lower on her neck where it began, then the deep furrow at the final resting place higher up on the neck. The trianglular bruise is common in ligature asphyxiation, whether the device is a cord, scarf, belt, whatever. I see no reason to mask the type of asphyxiation anyhow. There was enough the Stagers were trying to mask.

The staged scene did not need to mask the cause of death... The Stagers needed to mask the REASON why she was dead. They needed LE to believe it was MURDER (not an accident)- by a kidnapper!

I would still like to know for certain whether the hair had to be cut in order to free the ligature from JBR body... But agree with you that it appears it was cut, meaning that the handle was never pulled... The handle was added on after her death in order to muddy the scene. Otherwise, the hair would have been pulled out by the roots when the handle was pulled.

 

[cattlekate]

You could but the rope/string was so thin that it would begin to hurt your hands with the force you would need to keep it very tight. I believe it can take multiple minutes to strangle someone to death.

Looking at the photos I am seeing something that i never realized before. The handle was just to pull the other end of the rope. It was not used to twist the rope or anything. The other end that went around her neck had a normal slip knot that allowed the string to tighten around her neck. Which means the person pulling on the handle had to keep it tight while pulling.

I had always thought the wooden handle was to twist the handle to tighten the rope but I dont think it had anything to do with that. The handle part was basically just a handle on a leasch and the other end was just a ring of rope with a slip knot. Like a noose.

I tend to think that the garrott and strangulation was just done to finish her off and make sure she died.

I have to wonder if her initial injury was something else entirely like the head injury. I have to wonder if maybe the child was gurgling or making other noises and the person wanted to put her out of her misery and so after trying to maybe strangle with their hands or a pillow they could not get her to die or couldnt bring themself to do it. So they ended up thinking of this rope garrot method to quickly make something that could put her out of her misery.

The reason I think it was the very last thing that was done was because there would have been other rope marks around her neck if she would have been struggling to get away. There is only bruising and no real distinct rope marks that would have surely been present if JBR would have been struggling. I suspect she was basically unconciounce but still breathing by the time the garrott method was used to finish her off.

I've wondered if the asphyxiation was to silence agonal breathing resulting from brain damage. Sometimes there can be loud moaning or vocalization with agonal breathing.

Perhaps Jon Benet was carried to the basement to prevent any moaning noises from being heard. But the noises still seemed loud to the perp so the perp used what was handy.

 

[flgrl017]

I'm kind of thinking that the reason none of us adults can make sense of the garotte/cord/paint brush contraption is because a child made it. I say this as a mother to a 10 year old boy.

I just thought of this but my son took a yarn necklace that he made a school apart a few years ago and wrapped it around a stick. It looked very similar to way the yarn was wrapped around the brush handle. I have no idea why he even did it even.

 

[cattlekate]

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? :thinking:

 

[Razz]

I'm kind of thinking that the reason none of us adults can make sense of the garotte/cord/paint brush contraption is because a child made it. I say this as a mother to a 10 year old boy.

I just thought of this but my son took a yarn necklace that he made a school apart a few years ago and wrapped it around a stick. It looked very similar to way the yarn was wrapped around the brush handle. I have no idea why he even did it even.

Boys and sticks.

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[crucibelle]

Someone upthread mentioned the touch DNA and marker count, etc. I should have quoted the post, but I was scrolling thru to make sure this wasn't already posted & I'm too lazy to go back and look for it.

Anyhow, last night on the ID channel show, there was a DNA expert who said that they are supposed to have 13 markers to compare touch DNA, but that with this particular sample (touch DNA collected from Jonbenet's leggings), there were only 4 markers (apologies if I worded this strangely). In the DNA expert's opinion, this was not a valid test.

 

[BBB167893]

Someone upthread mentioned the touch DNA and marker count, etc. I should have quoted the post, but I was scrolling thru to make sure this wasn't already posted & I'm too lazy to go back and look for it.

Anyhow, last night on the ID channel show, there was a DNA expert who said that they are supposed to have 13 markers to compare touch DNA, but that with this particular sample (touch DNA collected from Jonbenet's leggings), there were only 4 markers (apologies if I worded this strangely). In the DNA expert's opinion, this was not a valid test.

It's a damn scandal, is what it is! Does anyone know if any charges can be brought against Mary Lacy?

 

[UKGuy]

I posted my thoughts onto WS. Along with the speculation that the ligature asphyxiation was done to mask a manual asphyxiation, since the head blow whenever delivered plainly needs no staged explanation.


Thanks for your thoughts, UKGuy... But wouldn't a manual asphyxiation leave finger marks? The cord left marks lower on her neck where it began, then the deep furrow at the final resting place higher up on the neck. The trianglular bruise is common in ligature asphyxiation, whether the device is a cord, scarf, belt, whatever. I see no reason to mask the type of asphyxiation anyhow. There was enough the Stagers were trying to mask.

The staged scene did not need to mask the cause of death... The Stagers needed to mask the REASON why she was dead. They needed LE to believe it was MURDER (not an accident)- by a kidnapper!

I would still like to know for certain whether the hair had to be cut in order to free the ligature from JBR body... But agree with you that it appears it was cut, meaning that the handle was never pulled... The handle was added on after her death in order to muddy the scene. Otherwise, the hair would have been pulled out by the roots when the handle was pulled.

RaeL,
it all depends on whichever RDI theory you want to uphold, i.e. accident, deliberate, planned, etc. That the physical events happened in which particular order is open to debate?

Personally I reckon the most consistent theory out there is BDI, the others have large holes in them, so unless BR did it all as Kolar suggests I think BR did some cleanup and minimal staging and the parents revised much of that, so it became what we ended up with?

The staging has multiple motives not just that of creating a fake homicide. JonBenet is patently dead, and not by accident, since she was asphyxiated, and so Pandora's box is opened.

If JonBenet's hair had been found cut, the Coroner would have recorded this in the Autopsy Report.

.

 

[Airasae]

A lot of people think that, YouWho, mostly because that's what one of the so-called "experts" had theorized. I disagree with it. I think it was caused by a blood vessel that had burst during the strangulation, and the blood that leaked from that blood vessel was restricted on the surface within an area called the carotid triangle.

I very much agree with you otg. A Google search will find similar images.

 

[Airasae]

RaeL,

There used to be a popular theory that the paintbrush and ligature was used as an Erotic Asphyxiation Device, and it all went wrong.

Examining the evidence I noted that JonBenet's hair was embedded into the knotting on the alleged EA Device, meaning it could not have functioned as advertised, i.e. JonBenet would be in extreme pain as the roots of hair were pulled out.

This combined with the Coroner not citing that he found JonBenet's hair severed from the alleged EA Device, allowed me to assume he or an associate had cut it?

So I largely discounted the Erotic Asphyxiation theory from then on and assumed the wine-cellar crime-scene to be mostly fabricated.

I posted my thoughts onto WS. Along with the speculation that the ligature asphyxiation was done to mask a manual asphyxiation, since the head blow whenever delivered plainly needs no staged explanation.

So it could be JonBenet had her vagus nerve compressed and she lost consciousness, falling into a coma. It might be that the head blow was a belated attempt at staging or simply to kill her, finally the ligature was used to kill her?

The exact details and sequence of events can be debated, many do as their theories rely on indeterminate criteria but JonBenet in the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene, likely the result of many hands.

.

In FF Kolar states that the hair was cut to free the stick.

 

[Airasae]

IMO, I think JB was relieved to have her physically back. I can't even imagine the level of fear that must course through you when your child is missing, and presumed kidnapped. I think, for a split second, before he realized the hard fact that she was dead, he was just relieved that she was found.

I don't think that JB killed or molested JBR. I think he was in total shock that Boxing Day.

I agree, I don't think he was stating that he was relieved JBR was dead. I interpret it to mean that he had a rush of relief at finding her. Having said that, I find it difficult to reconcile that with JBR being in full rigor, after the initial relief I'd expect him to know immediately that she was dead. And having said that, the fog of panic could have meant he was not thinking clearly.

Flipflop.

 

[Airasae]

I posted my thoughts onto WS. Along with the speculation that the ligature asphyxiation was done to mask a manual asphyxiation, since the head blow whenever delivered plainly needs no staged explanation.


Thanks for your thoughts, UKGuy... But wouldn't a manual asphyxiation leave finger marks? The cord left marks lower on her neck where it began, then the deep furrow at the final resting place higher up on the neck. The trianglular bruise is common in ligature asphyxiation, whether the device is a cord, scarf, belt, whatever. I see no reason to mask the type of asphyxiation anyhow. There was enough the Stagers were trying to mask.

The staged scene did not need to mask the cause of death... The Stagers needed to mask the REASON why she was dead. They needed LE to believe it was MURDER (not an accident)- by a kidnapper!

I would still like to know for certain whether the hair had to be cut in order to free the ligature from JBR body... But agree with you that it appears it was cut, meaning that the handle was never pulled... The handle was added on after her death in order to muddy the scene. Otherwise, the hair would have been pulled out by the roots when the handle was pulled.

The hair was definitely cut at autopsy. JBR's hair was tangled in the actual knot attached to the stick, which in my mind, only makes sense if it was tied to the cord while near to the scalp.

 

[Sunshine4Me]

They explained the garrote in the CBS documentary, well they explained how it was that it didn't kill her. Jonbenet was brain dead from the head wound. Brain dead is dead. If anyone has had family die of brain death in the hospital hooked up to life support machines you will know that the body will continue to function while it is hooked up to the machines and for a short time after. Sometimes the hospital will keep the patient on the machines until the family has the chance to get to the hospital to say goodbye, at which point they will unhook the patient, and shortly after the body will pass. This is a courtesy to the family, once brain activity has ceased the person is dead, but the body and organs can take a little longer to shut down. So Jonbenet died after the head wound and her body was in the process of shutting down when the garrote was applied. I have read a little about bodies functioning after brain death, and Jonbenet was not on life support, so I would actually think her brain ceased functioning not long before the garrote was applied or there would not have been petechia marks if that is indeed what they were.

*The truth is out there*

 

[SouthernSense]

I recently became reacquainted with this case much because of this site and the recent tv docs. There are several people here who are intricately knowledgeable of the case. I don't know if what I have to offer is important, but I thought I would put it out there. I haven't seen anyone suggest it yet.

The nylon cord wrapped around JonBenet's neck appears, to me, to be craft/sewing ribbon. Particularly in the autopsy photo that shows her neck straight on from the front, you can see the loops of single thread along the length of the "cord". I used to do silk floral crafts (arrangements, wreaths, etc) and would often use this type of ribbon.

In the crime scene photos of the basement "train room" you can see other craft items. I want to say I saw one photo that showed a shelf or drawer specifically labeled "Patsy's crafts", but I may be disremembering. However, if you look at the train room crime scene photos, there are obvious craft items there.

It's been awhile since I did those crafts, but if memory serves, that type of ribbon is either available to buy by the spool (a predetermined length, maybe 3 yards) or by the yard, so you could by a yard or 1/2 or 1/4 yard, whatever you needed.

The reason why the source of the cord was never found in the Ramseys home may be because all the available "cord" was used and there was nothing left to discover or the cops didn't know what to look for.

 

[cattlekate]

I'm kind of thinking that the reason none of us adults can make sense of the garotte/cord/paint brush contraption is because a child made it. I say this as a mother to a 10 year old boy.

I just thought of this but my son took a yarn necklace that he made a school apart a few years ago and wrapped it around a stick. It looked very similar to way the yarn was wrapped around the brush handle. I have no idea why he even did it even.

I agree. Burke was in Cub Scouts and took sailing lessons so he could've made the toggle rope on an earlier occasion while practicing knots.

Does anyone know for sure if the knot around the paintbrush was cut and the inside of the cord tested for DNA? Has LE ever been asked if they have?

 

[Ambitioned]

3 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
14 And I understand you are not going to answer
15 those.

0202
8 MR. LEVIN: I understand your
9 position.
10 In addition to those questions,
11 there are some others that I would like you
12 to think about whether or not we can have
13 Mrs. Ramsey perhaps in the future answer. I
14 understand you are advising her not to today,
15 and those arethere are black fibers that,
16 according to our testing that was conducted,
17 that match one of the two shirts that was
18 provided to us by the Ramseys, black shirt.
19 Those are located in the
20 underpants of JonBenet Ramsey, were found in
21 her crotch area, and I believe those are two
22 other areas that we have intended to ask
23 Mrs. Ramsey about if she could help us in
24 explaining their presence in those locations.

I think it should all be retested if possible.

 

[Tortoise]

I recently became reacquainted with this case much because of this site and the recent tv docs. There are several people here who are intricately knowledgeable of the case. I don't know if what I have to offer is important, but I thought I would put it out there. I haven't seen anyone suggest it yet.

The nylon cord wrapped around JonBenet's neck appears, to me, to be craft/sewing ribbon. Particularly in the autopsy photo that shows her neck straight on from the front, you can see the loops of single thread along the length of the "cord". I used to do silk floral crafts (arrangements, wreaths, etc) and would often use this type of ribbon.

In the crime scene photos of the basement "train room" you can see other craft items. I want to say I saw one photo that showed a shelf or drawer specifically labeled "Patsy's crafts", but I may be disremembering. However, if you look at the train room crime scene photos, there are obvious craft items there.

It's been awhile since I did those crafts, but if memory serves, that type of ribbon is either available to buy by the spool (a predetermined length, maybe 3 yards) or by the yard, so you could by a yard or 1/2 or 1/4 yard, whatever you needed.

The reason why the source of the cord was never found in the Ramseys home may be because all the available "cord" was used and there was nothing left to discover or the cops didn't know what to look for.

Hiya, I thought it was ribbon with a fancy edging too when I first saw that picture, and then I came to realise it is her gold necklace chain caught in the cord at the front of her neck. The cord is more identifiable as plain cord in some of the other shots.

 

[sek4278]

One of the things that interests me about the nylon rope is that supposedly fibers were found in JBR's bed. Police think the strangulation happened in the basement (pool of urine suggests that is where she died), but why would there be nylon in her bed?

The one thing that I can think is that, whoever had to stage the crime, did their work, they came up and laid in JBRs bed in grief.

Other thoughts?

This is my first post. For some reason I can't start a new thread, maybe that is disallowed...