GUILTY - Wayne Millard Murder Trial - Dellen Millard Charged With Murder - #4

[MistyWaters]

Not really any worse than having to prove that there was in fact a murder, when there is no dead body. jmo.

I think the difference is, if DM is found guilty, it overrules the suicide death ruling and indicates govt and civic incompetence while conducting the initial investigation. And if WMs death been viewed as even slightly suspicious, it might’ve prevented DM from being free to go on to commit TB’s murder.

I also noted on the witness stand how the coroner defended his death by suicide ruling. If DM is found guilty, will all the prior death investigation he was involved in be reviewed?

This case seems to be very unique - I’ve not been able to find another (outside of instances of confessions) where a closed suicide file was later prosecuted as murder. If DM is found guilty, I strongly suspect there will be other repercussions well beyond his sentencing... but on the other hand, I can’t say I’m convinced that the Crown put forward their best effort in achieving a conviction. Time will tell.

 

[Claroon]

I wonder how much is left of WMs estate, if much of anything? Millardair was eventually sold for $4.8 million and Barnes iirc testified it cost $10 million plus $5 million in cost overruns. We never learned how much personal funds WM invested or borrowed beyond Millardair available capital and loans.

Reading snippets of Abro's book and other articles I get the feeling WM was doing a DM--living off his dad. It seems to me a lot of assets were in CM's name. I read by the age of 90 CM really didn't have a business as much as a hobby. Perhaps not earning revenue way back in Toronto. WM apparently didn't have aviation interest either just like DM.

What occurred is WM inherited everything from CM. The lease for the hangar would be up in 2011. CM had talked about moving the hangar to another city. Perhaps CM started talks with players. Seems WM was wooed to Waterloo.

When faced with what to do with everything he inherited, seems WM split it with Dellen. Heck, he even inherited his dad's mobile van and scooter. I have a feeling most of WM's wealth was his father's. I understand even 5 Maple Gate used to be CM's home. Perhaps WM didn't have as much business savvy as we give him credit for. IMO

 

[Claroon]

Given the death was originally viewed as a suicide by all parties, I wonder how carefully the gun was preserved prior to testing, aside from it being moved from between the dresser and the bed and no one admitting to doing so. Or why that unknown person who moved the gun didn’t leave DNA or fingerprints?[/QUOTE]


Probably because they wore gloves.

 

[Claroon]

BBM I agree with you that WM would've likely held the gun while he thought over suicide. If he committed suicide, there would be no need to wipe down the gun. WM certainly wouldn't wipe the gun after he shot himself.

I can't think of a single case where someone killed themselves but hid the evidence of a suicide.

I like your humour!

Yes, WM would have retrieved the gun and put it into position. His fingerprints should have been on it and especially his DNA from blood spatter or body fluids IMO.

 

[Claroon]

BBM Alcoholism could lead to suicide, but there are a lot of alcoholics that wouldn't dare consider suicide. Alcoholism alone isn't enough for suicide, IMO.

I know DM said his dad was into wine. When I look at the bottles on WM's dresser there are clear ones lined up perfectly spaced with labels forward. Could be water bottles, but if they are something alcoholic, wonder if DM set them up to make it look like his dad drank a lot?

 

[Claroon]

My personal opinion is that MM knew about all three deaths at the time they happened and who was responsible. She was forced to admit that fact in the TB trial. She was not really pressed about it in either of the other two. She was young and stupid and followed along with what her boyfriend told her to do. She knows a LOT more than she has revealed IMO.

To be fair, there are many serial killers who were married and their wife knew nothing. She may not have known the depth of what was going on. Added to it, she was young. The human brain doesn't finish developing until age 25-29.

 

[Claroon]

OT
Noticed this article about the seizure of designer guns.. Bruce Finn (the fellow who took the guns when WM turned his in) is involved in the article.
WARMINGTON: Guns tied to Five Point Generalz gang bust look like toys but are real deadly

Terrible. I did hear before about guns being made with a 3D copier or whatever you call it.

 

[Claroon]

I expected CN would be called as a Crown witness. What’s your thoughts on her?

My thought on her is she is a lying, naive , uninformed, oversexualized, perjurous woman.

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder how DM's DNA got on the gun, but not his fingerprints. Did he shoot his father, then raise the gun to his lips and blow the dust away?

Police to identify criminals from their breath

 

[Claroon]

I don't know if I can express my thoughts in English well enough:
It seems, LE has not taken all the necessary examinations and measures that would have been necessary when they appeared in WM's bedroom. DM / MB spoke of depression and alcoholism and that was enough for LE to assume suicide rather than murder. You could accuse LE of mistakes and sloppiness. If now the defendant is acquitted for lack of clear evidence, the negligence and misjudgment of LE automatically diminishes in the eyes of the public.
Is that how it is and are all parties satisfied at the end?

Well, it wasn't just LE. Once the coroner decided suicide, it became a coroner's case and he called the shots of whether other forensic evidence should be collected or not. He chose to let them and the paramedics go back to take other calls. So it's the coroner who is in doo-doo. IMO

 

[Claroon]

Pre-planning of the reception from 12:00 to 5:00 p.m. on Saturday, December 15, 2012 at Vinsanto Ristorante may have happened also as the cremation (!), which would have been an important detail on the to-do-list for a murderer.
Being proud of the masterful performance of planning a funeral and firing staff all together, he had to tell his sweetheart MS.

Wasn't there a tweet that when the LE talked to DM in the driveway he and his mom already knew what funeral home they would use? Was it the same one used for CM? Had DM done research on quick cremations?

 

[musicaljoke]

Yes, that is true. However I see this to be a highly unusual case in Canadian courts because the death was originally ruled suicide, not a homicide.
JMO

There are plenty of cases where decisions are reversed, even after a trial. The judge will set aside all concerns about the implications of her decision on the Toronto Police Force. She will make a ruling based on the evidence.

 

[Claroon]

The real flaw in this case originates with the coroner IMO, and his testimony was very weak. Did he move the gun? Sure sounds like it, even though he denied it on the stand. All he had to do at the scene was rule the death as suspicious, enabling LE to treat it as a potential homicide. Instead, he jumped straight to suicide. (Bear in the mind the current review by the chief coroner
Ontario coroner to review undetected homicides — all the way back to Tammy Homolka | The Star ) I'm sure this case was part of the thinking that made this review necessary, even though it isn't mentioned as it's still before the court.

I agree. I read that once paramedics or LE assume suicide, they kind of follow that train of thought. I imagine when the coroner was called by dispatch, they might have told him suspected suicide which already lodged firmly in his thoughts closing his mind. IMO

 

[ABro]

This case seems to be very unique - I’ve not been able to find another (outside of instances of confessions) where a closed suicide file was later prosecuted as murder. If DM is found guilty, I strongly suspect there will be other repercussions well beyond his sentencing... but on the other hand, I can’t say I’m convinced that the Crown put forward their best effort in achieving a conviction. Time will tell.

Look at the front page of today's Toronto Star. Two cases closed as suicide by Peel police. Later tried as murders.

Peel police chief apologizes to family of Bill, Bridget and Caleb Harrison | The Star

 

[Claroon]

Hahahaha, would not be surprised. She has all the money from DM, and he has no control over how she spends it.

She had better find a new executor of her own will and someone to plan her funeral one day. Maybe she has siblings.

 

[ABro]

My personal opinion is that MM knew about all three deaths at the time they happened and who was responsible. She was forced to admit that fact in the TB trial. She was not really pressed about it in either of the other two. She was young and stupid and followed along with what her boyfriend told her to do. She knows a LOT more than she has revealed IMO.

I get so tired of the MM bashing on here.

There is zero evidence that she knew of any of the killings.

Based on what I've seen of her, I highly doubt she knows a lot more than she has told.

The same goes for Michalski, who, like Marlena, was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Clearly Millard tried to groom him and failed so moved on to Smich. Michalski wasn't a killer and never would be. He also never imagined his friend was a murderer.

Both Meneses' and Michalski's lies to police are easily explained by the fact that they were two people involved in criminal activity, who finally realized that things were way worse than they imagined.

They did bad things, but they were never okay with murder. I'm not sure why some people are so committed to making them worse than that.

 

[MistyWaters]

Reading snippets of Abro's book and other articles I get the feeling WM was doing a DM--living off his dad. It seems to me a lot of assets were in CM's name. I read by the age of 90 CM really didn't have a business as much as a hobby. Perhaps not earning revenue way back in Toronto. WM apparently didn't have aviation interest either just like DM.

What occurred is WM inherited everything from CM. The lease for the hangar would be up in 2011. CM had talked about moving the hangar to another city. Perhaps CM started talks with players. Seems WM was wooed to Waterloo.

When faced with what to do with everything he inherited, seems WM split it with Dellen. Heck, he even inherited his dad's mobile van and scooter. I have a feeling most of WM's wealth was his father's. I understand even 5 Maple Gate used to be CM's home. Perhaps WM didn't have as much business savvy as we give him credit for. IMO

There’s also a couple memoirs online written about Carl by people who knew him, also describing the type of highly involved self-made success who commonly is utterly reluctant to hand off control to anyone during their lifetime, including their children. So yeah I agree it appears WM stood in the shadows of his father most of his life and as he was approaching 70 at the time of CMs death, building the MRO was a high risk venture entirely out of realm of his business experience, other than having been pilot.

And while Millardair and CM’s reputation were synonymously successful during the peak several decades ago, the other difference was WM revived Millardair based on the prospects of people he hired, either due to lack of personal insight into the MRO business, his age or health issues. But it’s never really been mentioned how he intended that DM would eventually become actively involved in the business as it didn’t appear the mentoring would’ve came from WM.

 

[MistyWaters]

Look at the front page of today's Toronto Star. Two cases closed as suicide by Peel police. Later tried as murders.

Peel police chief apologizes to family of Bill, Bridget and Caleb Harrison | The Star

I have to look back but I thought both parents’ deaths were ruled undetermined as opposed to suicide and at least one was initially investigated as suspicious. But I agree, the Harrison situation is another horrible example of oversight and only after the 3rd death in the same home did any real depth of investigation begin.

 

[palisadesk]

There are plenty of cases where decisions are reversed, even after a trial. The judge will set aside all concerns about the implications of her decision on the Toronto Police Force. She will make a ruling based on the evidence.

T

For plentiful and recent examples, you only have to consider the Charles Smith debacle, where more than a dozen criminal convictions (of parents supposedly killing their children) were overturned because it was found that Dr. Smith did not have the credentials or expertise to conduct forensic autopsies and he flagrantly ignored proper procedures. First the deaths were ruled accidental or natural causes, and then eventually the convictions were overturned. It was found that in the neighbourhood of 40 controversial baby deaths were wrongly diagnosed by him and his incompetence was covered up (knowingly, to some degree) by the coroners who were his superiors. Here's a brief look at the sorry chain of events: 'Like a god:' Dr. Charles Smith left poisoned trail behind him - CityNews Toronto

 

[ABro]

When you say deeply toxic relationship, do you mean you believe that from both ends? Can you explain what you mean a bit more? Do you mean... WM kind of in his own world, with his own, perhaps somewhat selfish, visions.. and DM in his own world, taking advantage of his dad wherever he could. Do you think the two were at each other all the time? That they didn't communicate? That WM was unhappy with the living arrangements? It seems like WM did have control, at least of the business and funds, while he was alive? Did he hang that stuff over DM's head? Do you believe DM when he said that WM asked him about his new lady friend, or think that was a lie.. it seemed like he was perhaps trying to involve her in the business by at least keeping her privy to certain aspects.. that had to have bothered DM? I'm sorry I really don't know anything about their personal relationship and I am sure you know much more. I do have your book, but I will have to get myself to get the heck off of sleuthing when I've got time that could be spent reading a real book.. does your book elaborate on that relationship at all? Thanks for any insight into their relationship that you might be able to share.

My book has a few more details about the relationship. My description of the relationship as deeply toxic is my interpretation based on the facts as we know them.

Wayne was a very strange and troubled man but also had a "sweet" side. I suspect he was in denial about his son.

He did have financial leverage over DM, which is ultimately why I believe DM killed him.

MB is another strange figure, described to me by someone who has dealt with her in recent years as astonishingly lacking in empathy, just like her son. She is in complete denial and uninterested in the truth.