GUILTY HI - Carly Joann 'Charli' Scott, 27, pregnant, Makawao, 9 Feb 2014 - #4

[puakenikeni]

They don't have a body but they do have parts of a body including, as I believe Kim put it, a part one cannot live without...the jawbone, which included at least one tooth. That alone should prove a death occured, but I'm not LE or a defense atty. I think this is a strong circumstantial case. I hope it is.

Exactly.
The legal definition of circumstantial evidence is simply that it does not come from an eyewitness or participant in the crime, and requires some reasoning to make the connection.

It is not by definition weak evidence or strong; it can be either, and many or most criminal cases depend on it,'because perpetrators generally seek to hide crimes from witnesses and don't volunteer the needed confession. Sometimes they do or a participant turns on another, of course. (This last bit is a paraphrase from the legal dictionary. I know you all know this already.)

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Technically the case is based on circumstantial evidence, because there have been no eyewitnesses come forward and there is no confession.

But there were no witnesses of the Lacy Peterson murder either, and they convicted Scott. In both cases, the defendant made a statement to the police putting himself in the general area where remains were later found.

Thanks for quoting that, I can't find my post! I wasn't done with my reply when my internet went off. Yes, thankfully the defendant has put himself A) in the vicinity where her remains were, B) with the defendant and her dog late in the evening leaving AND coming back to Haiku and C) asking others how he can get away with murder. I'd like to see the defense try to explain that away.

Loio sent us the court audio from Monday and the defense wants to shift blame to the MPD and throw out the rhetorical "how come no one else was pursued as a suspect?"

 

[puakenikeni]

The defense sounds weak, but it's what they have I guess. From what I hear and see on social media on local sites, a portion of the population here sees MPD as corrupt, so there's kind of a receptive audience possible, depending on who they got on the jury of course.

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Pua you mentioned something last night that put SC's anger and aggression in a new light. You said he was informed of his contribution late in her pregnancy. All this time I wondered why the hell he would stew for so long and why did he tell Mileka Lincoln something like, "Idk ... they just told me (about the baby)." But now it makes sense! If she told him in the fourth month, around January '14, he starts thinking how can he get rid of the baby. That was around the time he drove her to Honomanu against her will* and asked a co-worker how to get away with murder.** I never really understood his urgency because I assumed he knew since September '13. But if he'd just found out, that was the only thing on his mind. And that's why his Facebook posts in January '14 take on a new tone. He was pissed. Too late for an abortion, at 20 weeks the baby was real.

* FTL says he tried to take her to Honomanu in January.
** The most defense tried to suppress the statements of co-workers

(I saw someone using the months and years when referring to the timeline, I think it's a good idea since so much time has passed)

 

[puakenikeni]

Re the witness list, here are the subpoenas issued so far--omitting the almost 25 who are LEO and experts or doctors:

Kimberlyn and Brooke Scott. Fiona and Phaedra Wais.
Molly Wirth, Theresa Gajate, Cassandra Kupstas, Linda Ruth Puppolo, Kurt Kaiser, Drew Kaiser, Jennifer Sommer, David Rasmusson, Edwin Feiteira, Ginseng Mileur, Patricia Gagne, Ashley Silva, Guillermo Torres, Owen Aoki, Albert Young, Jeff Marshall, Emily Jessie, John Palicki, Max Jones, Taylor Farner.
(One or more of these might be LEO and the title got by me.)

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Agree, depending on how long he had had the truck. He had already taken that loan from his employer on it. As spec we have discussed previously, one response to being seen might be concocting the story of his stuck truck and getting her help, although we don't know if that story would jibe with where he was supposedly seen. Really he should have never admitted to being the last known to see her alive.
I am keeping in mind Run's theory that SC wanted people to know he had killed her. But if so, why not cop to it and be done with it? If he wanted her murder to be known and did not want to get convicted, then again he should never have said they were together that night.

I think so too. I don't think he wanted people to think he commited the crime which is why he went pig hunter style. He wanted to cast suspicion on the infamous Maui Serial Killer that zigzagged his way back to Haiku from Hana. In reply on a Facebook post he said something like, "I wouldn't do something like that, ask my friends I'm not violent." Like what SC? Do what? At the time the media was reporting that Charli's jawbone was found, no mention of it being defleshed yet.

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Re the witness list, here are the subpoenas issued so far--omitting the almost 25 who are LEO and experts or doctors:

Kimberlyn and Brooke Scott. Fiona and Phaedra Wais.
Molly Wirth, Theresa Gajate, Cassandra Kupstas, Linda Ruth Puppolo, Kurt Kaiser, Drew Kaiser, Jennifer Sommer, David Rasmusson, Edwin Feiteira, Ginseng Mileur, Patricia Gagne, Ashley Silva, Guillermo Torres, Owen Aoki, Albert Young, Jeff Marshall, Emily Jessie, John Palicki, Max Jones, Taylor Farner.
(One or more of these might be LEO and the title got by me.)

Adam Gaines

 

[Mamamerced]

Thanks for this list, Pua. I found the site you told us about but only found about 13-14 witnesses. Maybe there was a 2nd page I missed. No mention of Matthew McCormick so I assume his disappearance wasn't related to SC which I thought it might be.

 

[puakenikeni]

Pua you mentioned something last night that put SC's anger and aggression in a new light. You said he was informed of his contribution late in her pregnancy. All this time I wondered why the hell he would stew for so long and why did he tell Mileka Lincoln something like, "Idk ... they just told me (about the baby)." But now it makes sense! If she told him in the fourth month, around January '14, he starts thinking how can he get rid of the baby. That was around the time he drove her to Honomanu against her will* and asked a co-worker how to get away with murder.** I never really understood his urgency because I assumed he knew since September '13. But if he'd just found out, that was the only thing on his mind. And that's why his Facebook posts in January '14 take on a new tone. He was pissed. Too late for an abortion, at 20 weeks the baby was real.

* FTL says he tried to take her to Honomanu in January.
** The most defense tried to suppress the statements of co-workers

(I saw someone using the months and years when referring to the timeline, I think it's a good idea since so much time has passed)

So well put!
Yes, I remember that she didn't tell him for that long.
Remember the bit in the interview about how the baby's sex was known, but would not be revealed to Charli by her choice, but was known to those putting on the baby shower IIRC? SC deprived of key information on whether or not having a son, which he said would matter to him, so that Charli could do it "old school." How enraging for a control freak to be told to wait for a baby shower for news about a child he could be legally responsible to support.

Another detail, Charli had moved to the west coast to stay with a sister to get away from SC, make a new start, and had returned to Maui. This may be when she decided to tell him, but I don't have dates for that.

So yes, it looks like his almost immediate reaction was to murder them. How horrible and sad. I don't think she knew his dark side completely, but maybe she had an inkling and he held out some hope to her that they would get back together. It sounds like she was very vulnerable to him and loved him in spite of everything.

 

[puakenikeni]

Thanks for this list, Pua. I found the site you told us about but only found about 13-14 witnesses. Maybe there was a 2nd page I missed. No mention of Matthew McCormick so I assume his disappearance wasn't related to SC which I thought it might be.

These are only the subpoenas issued and put on the page to date. There may be more coming. There were subpoenas issued prior to the reindictment under the old case number. I listed those too.

 

[puakenikeni]

I think so too. I don't think he wanted people to think he commited the crime which is why he went pig hunter style. He wanted to cast suspicion on the infamous Maui Serial Killer that zigzagged his way back to Haiku from Hana. In reply on a Facebook post he said something like, "I wouldn't do something like that, ask my friends I'm not violent." Like what SC? Do what? At the time the media was reporting that Charli's jawbone was found, no mention of it being defleshed yet.

More terrific points, Nikki. And IIRC the jawbone hadn't been published per se and wasn't until July when he was indicted. But there was mention of a bone and that she could not live without it when they reclassified the case.
I suppose the "that" was murder in general.
I remember that Facebook post, and if he spoke truth, it would point towards getting help from someone who was not squeamish.
He did do some destruction on property and tires and we now hear he has burned at least one car before, but property destruction is not the same as violence towards someone's person. He might want them dead and be determined to make it so, but might need help making it happen, and he would hardly be the first in that situation.

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Pua, I think I remember it was in one of news videos that Kim said Charli had moved to CA with her sister.

 

[puakenikeni]

PS. I recall Facebook posting about almost getting a woman pregnant (a meme) but alcohol disabled his tool, that I think was circa the time she got pregnant. I'm thinking that he was thinking about having had unprotected sex and was anxious about it at the time, which would explain those posts, but he didn't know until January.

 

[puakenikeni]

Pua, I think I remember it was in one of news videos that Kim said Charli had moved to CA with her sister.

Thanks! I had seen it on Facebook (public post).
I also remember Adam G talking on the Discovery program Disappeared about how Charli and SC would hook up in secret places, and she would tell Adam, but SC never told that he was still seeing her. It sounds like he just used her and according to her mother, she never loved anyone but Steven and she was not over him -- but she intended to raise Joshua on her own without asking him for support.

But we don't know whether she did try to get him to care and appreciate that he was to be a father. He says he was coming around to the idea. He is a liar, but that may be a clue that he felt pressured to get on board in some sense. Or he may have felt pressured but it was all in his head. I doubt we'll ever know.

 

[heartgoesout]

Pua, the money he borrowed from his employer was never put in print that I recall was for the new truck. It was for tires. That he never got.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[puakenikeni]

Pua, the money he borrowed from his employer was never put in print that I recall was for the new truck. It was for tires. That he never got.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, my memory is the same. The loan had been discussed a lot here before I joined WS. There was no MSM source, but I seem to recall that Peter Tosh/CJ knew about it from local sources. It was a loan to be invested in the truck (tires), and the truck he was paying off but taking possession in advance.
My comment wasn't relating to the financial arrangement at all; I was only thinking that the truck wasn't absolutely new to him driving it. In a small area like Maui, where guys know each other, they're quick to take note of another guy driving a different rig. Their wheels, at that age, are part of their identity, from my observations of my sons who came of age in similar small community.

 

[heartgoesout]

As we rediscussed it would be helpful to note facts verses rumor. Stating something as fact that isn't is confusing.
No disrespect intended.

Do we know as fact when she told him he was pregnant? I'm getting all kinds of confused.

 

[Nikki Lisette]

Let's not forget how Nala the dog was treated with kid gloves and delivered to Nahiku. Meanwhile Charli was scalped, stabbed, bludgeoned and mangled to prevent identification.

Hitchhiker? No. As a matter of fact, the way she was treated reminds me of a movie I saw. The Perfect Vacation, I think.

 

[puakenikeni]

As we rediscussed it would be helpful to note facts verses rumor. Stating something as fact that isn't is confusing.
No disrespect intended.

Do we know as fact when she told him he was pregnant? I'm getting all kinds of confused.

I understand, but I'm tremendously busy right now on big changes in my own life, and I don't have time to find where things were posted in this topic that I remember were posted one to two years ago. Multiple threads now too. I am fine if you treat something as rumor. I won't get upset.

But for instance yesterday it took me a lot of time to find a pic of the clothes that were found, and I found a pic of the vehicle to show how much remains may have been left, or not, and the witness list typed in, etc.. It was very time-consuming finding all the news articles again and making a timeline of the forensics.

So I am simply out of time. Some of the info was from posters not verified as insiders, whom I treat as insiders, FTL and Peter Tosh. No disrespect meant. Anyone can feel free to ignore my spec. When I feel like something needs to be found again and I think I know where to find it, I will, but it's not always possible. I try as much as I can to find a quote when I have a question about it, and hopefully we can all individually find things from the past when we want answers for our questions.

For example, a timeline for the first part of the case. I did a really painstaking timeline a year or more ago, and anyone is welcome to find it, but I don't know where it is. I have the days of the week and dates of what happened the first week nailed down in my memory due to all the times I have gone over it, but if I had to find the source again for each statement I already sourced in the past, I wouldn't have time.

I'm going to be gone over the holiday weekend ... have fun all.

 

[puakenikeni]

Let's not forget how Nala the dog was treated with kid gloves and delivered to Nahiku. Meanwhile Charli was scalped, stabbed, bludgeoned and mangled to prevent identification.

Hitchhiker? No. As a matter of fact, the way she was treated reminds me of a movie I saw. The Perfect Vacation, I think.

"A Perfect Getaway," shot on the Kalalau Trail? Seen it about three times, love that movie. Fingertips yes, no dog though. That movie was made 2009 and it did get people thinking about serial killers and how they are only a plane hop away from Oahu to our remote wilderness areas on the Neighbor Islands.