Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
:seeya: Morning, Y'all !

So ... last night I was reading elsewhere :facepalm: and came across this:


From WBBJ TV:

BENTON COUNTY, Tenn.:

An increase in a new kind of drug has Benton County buckling down. In the past month, deputies say they have made their presence known to local dealers and are cleaning up the streets.
...

Deputies said when they arrested Amber Bray and David Bowman this week, each had the drug "ice" on them.

Link: http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Deputies-tackle-Benton-Countys-growing-drug-problem-288633841.html


Remember AB -- the one ZA said he was going to "gut" ?


Documents Reveal Details Leading Up To Zachary Adams' Arrest:

According affidavits, law enforcement officials in Benton County pulled over a van being driven by Christopher Bray and Toni Craig on February 24. Officials said the van is owned by Amber Bray, the sister of Zachary Adams' girlfriend.
...

Adams appeared before a judge in Decatur County on that charge Monday. The Jackson Sun reported Adams told the media taking pictures that he "is not the one" as he was leaving the courtroom.

According to affiliate reports, Zach Adams was held on a $1 million bond, accused of holding a gun to Amber Bray's head and threatening to "gut" her.

Link: http://www.newschannel5.com/story/2...al-details-leading-up-to-zachary-adams-arrest


JMO but this has to be the same AB person ...
 
There are some basic things I hope happens in this case.

-Hope all the right people who were involved get prosecuted and only the right ones.
-Hope we find out the reason why the perp(s) targeted Holly.
-Hope LE moves this case along as quick as possible.
-Hope we find out more about SA and if he really committed suicide or if he was killed. Something really bugs me about the whole deal or no deal with SA.

The way this case has been handled from the very beginning has caused me to lose a lot of faith in being able to get any of those hopes to happen. All I can do is keep hoping that the end result will be the proper people being prosecuted for the crimes against Holly. And hope we get some solid answers to a lot of questions that were raised along the way.
 
shefner said:
So you are saying Dylan can't get on the stand and testify about what he saw concerning ZA, JA, and Holly Bobo? If he saw it and had any part in it, he's a witness.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Since DA is being charged with the same crimes, if he gets up in court and testifies, that testimony can be used against him in his own trial, so that is not going to happen. If he is tried with the other two his lawyers won't call him to the stand, and if he is tried separately then he will exercise his 5th amendment rights. Either way, he isn't going to testify as things stand.

But they don't need him to testify IF all three are tried together, because then his prior statements would be admissible.
 
Chainsaw385 said:
No ........... a statement made by a janitor almost 2 years after the event he witnessed was testified to in court by a 3rd party who heard this statement after the janitor who made the original statement had died before trial.....if that is not classified as hearsay ....WHAT IS? But this was the exemption that was argued and allowed and has stood up to multiple appeals.

This exemption is very loosely worded and I have never seen a time limit imposed to define when a stress related statement was made.........they will just argue DA was still feeling the stress of the event when he was being questioned.

Also this exemption comes up often in domestic cases when charges are filled and then later the victim decides not to cooperate with the prosecution.

I personally don't like this exemption because it is basically a "catch-all" for the prosecution.......and often leads to statements being allowed as evidence with no chance for the defense to refute them.

I stand by my words that anything DA said on video/audio tape is allowed
Click to expand...

In a situation like the Janitor example there would have to be corroboration of some sort IMO in order to convince a judge to admit it. If it was the only evidence, or the bulk of the evidence, then it would not have been allowed. The Janitor had to be dead for the exception to be allowed, if he were alive then he would need to testify himself. I imagine that in those sorts of cases the judge would instruct the jury that the evidence admitted could only be used show that the janitor spoke to this third person, but not that whatever he said was accurate. The credibility of the statements could only be considered if the Janitor himself testified in court (which obviously he would not be able to do).

The same thing would apply in a domestic abuse case where a victim declined to cooperate. If there is compelling evidence outside of the victims testimony, prosecutors could proceed under the argument that the victim was being intimidated or influenced. Hearsay might then be admitted as corroborative evidence only. It is very common for charges to be dropped or thrown out when a victim refuses to cooperate and their testimony is central to the charge. The fact that the told their story to LE officers, or even that it was recorded, would not save the case in those circumstances. That is because in the absence compelling physical/witness evidence, the credibility of the allegations can't be tested without the victim actually testifying.

Think of it as a piece of evidence that comes in two parts: (A) that certain things were said by one person to another, and (B) that the statements were credible. If you have the primary witness testify, both (A) and (B) are present. But, if you use hearsay, only (A) is present, which means that (B) has to be provided by some other evidence, typically either direct physical evidence or another primary witness. And connecting (A) and (B) in that situation without your primary witness as the glue to hold the two bits together is not an easy thing to do, you need something fairly compelling to do it. If you try to proceed with a case with only (A), and little or no (B), then your case is going to be dismissed at some point.
 
:seeya: Morning, Y'all !


Here's the latest:


Judge, attorneys set to discuss Holly Bobo case

There was a very short conference call among all the players in the Holly Bobo murder case on Wednesday [9-30-15].

Judge McGinley informed all attorneys and the prosecution that the next hearing date will be Nov. 18 at the Decatur County courthouse.


More at Link: http://wkrn.com/2015/09/30/judge-attorneys-set-to-discuss-holly-bobo-case/
 
"There is also no progress yet in getting the defense all the discovery material."

This certainly underscores the fact that the prosecution has not provided full discovery, as has been claimed over and over. And because it seems to never get remedied, I guess it shouldn't be surprising that it continues to be the case. But ....
 
SteveS said:
"There is also no progress yet in getting the defense all the discovery material."

This certainly underscores the fact that the prosecution has not provided full discovery, as has been claimed over and over. And because it seems to never get remedied, I guess it shouldn't be surprising that it continues to be the case. But ....
Click to expand...


:gaah: Yep, SteveS, agree ...

:gaah: This case is a "hot mess" ... has been a "hot mess" since day 1, and continues to be a "hot mess" IMO.

:seeya:
 
So they are still doing that stalling nonsense???

The quality of their evidence must be pretty poor if they are doing this consistently. It has been over a year now since the issue of discovery was first raised and to be brutally honest it is shocking that it has gone on for this long. It reflects very poorly on the justice system. Just hand the stuff over and get on with it for heaven sake!
 
I don't get it.........so frustrating
 
dog.gone.cute said:
:seeya: Morning, Y'all !


Here's the latest:


Judge, attorneys set to discuss Holly Bobo case

There was a very short conference call among all the players in the Holly Bobo murder case on Wednesday [9-30-15].

Judge McGinley informed all attorneys and the prosecution that the next hearing date will be Nov. 18 at the Decatur County courthouse.


More at Link: http://wkrn.com/2015/09/30/judge-attorneys-set-to-discuss-holly-bobo-case/
Click to expand...

Almost 2 months apart from each status meeting. Good Grief
 
Tugela said:
So they are still doing that stalling nonsense???

The quality of their evidence must be pretty poor if they are doing this consistently. It has been over a year now since the issue of discovery was first raised and to be brutally honest it is shocking that it has gone on for this long. It reflects very poorly on the justice system. Just hand the stuff over and get on with it for heaven sake!
Click to expand...

Agree.

The only thing I can figure is like I have been thinking for a long time now. That even though the prosecution team I think previously said there are boxes of "evidence" that it amounts to a whole bunch of nothing.

Don't get me wrong. They do have some things although it mainly is statements from the brother and the remains found.

The early signs of trouble was when that first person (was it the 1st DA?) had all the trouble with the other department (TBI?) and he demanded they give him what he was requesting and they couldn't or wouldn't. He was replaced and now the new DA is not able to do any better because there is just not a lot to work with.

I think the boxes of "stuff" are mainly documentation of what they did and places they looked and people they interviewed but not a lot came out of it.

So it seems their whole case will be statements from defendents and remains.
Which is something but not what they had hoped.

I keep thinking that they were hoping for a "plea deal" from one of the defendents since we have seen and heard that they like to make plea deals instead of trying cases. I think they relied too much on hoping to make a plea deal and they ruined their chances themselves for that to happen.

For example lets give a hypothetical.
Think about the person who committed suicide in Florida and then think about if you had any information to help LE. Would you want to cooperate with LE for an immunity deal after seeing how they treated that person.

I think they have done irreparable harm to a lot of future cases and this case with getting any people to cooperate with them. The word on the street is they will backstab you and not hold up their end of the bargain.

They may still have enough to prosecute this case but its not going to be an easy road for them at this point. I do think a jury will likely side with the prosecution though since this case was so public. So it may be enough what they have to prosecute.

They just need to get on with it and give it a try. Because if they are waiting and hoping someone is going to all of a sudden come to them with info or one of the defendents is going to plea deal with them then they will be waiting till a blue moon comes.

Which brings up a question. At what point can a defendant claim they are being held in jail too long with no trial.?

I know they waived their right to a speedy trial but how many years can they hold a defendant before a judge would say enough is enough and threaten to throw the case out?
 
Well, I think they have tons of stuff in their investigation file, but the problem is that very little is likely relevant to the charges being prosecuted.

To buy more time in the hopes of finding something else that is more useful, I think their strategy is to send the vast body of irrelevant stuff a bit at a time and fight it all the way so they can argue that they are trying. As long as they don't hand over everything the system will let the case continue to chug along because there might be strong evidence that they just haven't handed over yet. The judge doesn't know, so he gives them the benefit of the doubt. Since the judge is elected and since this is a high profile case, it would be political suicide to say enough is enough. I think that is why he talks the tough talk but when the deadlines come and go he does nothing but extend things again. He doesn't want to be the one holding the ball when it gets stopped. IMO the prosecution is using that to their advantage to draw things out in order to buy time.
 
Tugela said:
Well, I think they have tons of stuff in their investigation file, but the problem is that very little is likely relevant to the charges being prosecuted.

To buy more time in the hopes of finding something else that is more useful, I think their strategy is to send the vast body of irrelevant stuff a bit at a time and fight it all the way so they can argue that they are trying. As long as they don't hand over everything the system will let the case continue to chug along because there might be strong evidence that they just haven't handed over yet. The judge doesn't know, so he gives them the benefit of the doubt. Since the judge is elected and since this is a high profile case, it would be political suicide to say enough is enough. I think that is why he talks the tough talk but when the deadlines come and go he does nothing but extend things again. He doesn't want to be the one holding the ball when it gets stopped. IMO the prosecution is using that to their advantage to draw things out in order to buy time.
Click to expand...

Why do you believe they have little relevant to the charges? If I read the Grand Jury Indictments, it appears there is enough evidence relevant to all charges.

http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Bobo-Grand-Jury-Indictments-Released-304559521.html


I'm guessing the reason for the stalling is this is a death penalty case and they want to dot all their i's and cross their t's. If these guys are guilty, they deserve death. IMO
 
~n/t~ said:
Why do you believe they have little relevant to the charges? If I read the Grand Jury Indictments, it appears there is enough evidence relevant to all charges.

http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Bobo-Grand-Jury-Indictments-Released-304559521.html


I'm guessing the reason for the stalling is this is a death penalty case and they want to dot all their i's and cross their t's. If these guys are guilty, they deserve death. IMO
Click to expand...

There is no evidence in the indictments. The charges themselves imply that they are based on witness statements since they describe specific actions that only people present would know, and the only witness that can be is DA. And that is probably all the evidence they have (if they had more they would have offered him immunity to secure his testimony, which would have made the case water tight). The requirements to get an indictment are not high, they are just probable cause and someone's allegations would certainly fit that bill. Remember, the only person presenting the case to a grand jury is the prosecutor, who gets to choose what he or she presents. There is no cross-examination and no defense attorney present.

As I said before, they can't have him testify in court because his claims likely cannot be corroborated by anything, and he is almost certainly impeachable due to his character and personal history. The only way they can get his prior statements admitted without him testifying is to charge him with the same crimes and have him tried with the other two. But, since the trial process has already started for the other two they could not just add him as another defendant in the trial. To get around that they dismissed the earlier charges and recharged all three together with the new charges using the argument that the new charges are more serious and therefore supersede the old ones. So, now they have a situation where they know he won't be called by the defense to testify but they can still admit his statements under the hearsay exception. And because the statements are admitted as evidence, not the direct testimony, the only attack the defense can make on them directly is the validity under which the statements were obtained, not the factual content of the statements themselves (since you can't cross examine a piece of paper). This puts the defense in a very weak position where they cannot directly contest the "facts" as presented by the prosecution because of the rules of the court. These kind of tactics have nothing to do with truth and justice, and everything to do with winning at all costs, no matter if the defendant is innocent or guilty.

They are playing games with the law. It implies that they know that they don't really have real evidence of the accusations, so they are using the rules of the trial process to get around that deficiency and use suspect allegations in a way that makes it very difficult for the defense to challenge them.
 
I am not a big fan of the justice system in Tennessee....
Law Enforcement bungled this case from the first moments.
TBI failed, once again.
The accused should not have been out of jail to commit this crime. Their rap sheets would have them incarcerated for years instead of attending coon hunts and plotting kidnaping.

Note to self: Don't go missing in Tennessee


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Tugela said:
There is no evidence in the indictments. The charges themselves imply that they are based on witness statements since they describe specific actions that only people present would know, and the only witness that can be is DA. And that is probably all the evidence they have (if they had more they would have offered him immunity to secure his testimony, which would have made the case water tight). The requirements to get an indictment are not high, they are just probable cause and someone's allegations would certainly fit that bill. Remember, the only person presenting the case to a grand jury is the prosecutor, who gets to choose what he or she presents. There is no cross-examination and no defense attorney present.

As I said before, they can't have him testify in court because his claims likely cannot be corroborated by anything, and he is almost certainly impeachable due to his character and personal history. The only way they can get his prior statements admitted without him testifying is to charge him with the same crimes and have him tried with the other two. But, since the trial process has already started for the other two they could not just add him as another defendant in the trial. To get around that they dismissed the earlier charges and recharged all three together with the new charges using the argument that the new charges are more serious and therefore supersede the old ones. So, now they have a situation where they know he won't be called by the defense to testify but they can still admit his statements under the hearsay exception. And because the statements are admitted as evidence, not the direct testimony, the only attack the defense can make on them directly is the validity under which the statements were obtained, not the factual content of the statements themselves (since you can't cross examine a piece of paper). This puts the defense in a very weak position where they cannot directly contest the "facts" as presented by the prosecution because of the rules of the court. These kind of tactics have nothing to do with truth and justice, and everything to do with winning at all costs, no matter if the defendant is innocent or guilty.

They are playing games with the law. It implies that they know that they don't really have real evidence of the accusations, so they are using the rules of the trial process to get around that deficiency and use suspect allegations in a way that makes it very difficult for the defense to challenge them.
Click to expand...

How did you conclude that the charges were based on witness statements and they have no evidence? Out of the 460 pieces of evidence do you believe they have nothing or not enough to have charged these monsters?
 
shefner said:
I am not a big fan of the justice system in Tennessee....
Law Enforcement bungled this case from the first moments.
TBI failed, once again.
The accused should not have been out of jail to commit this crime. Their rap sheets would have them incarcerated for years instead of attending coon hunts and plotting kidnaping.

Note to self: Don't go missing in Tennessee


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I agree they bungled the case from the start but we have to believe they will prosecute these 3 and they will get the DP. I still have faith, I suppose even though the stalling is frustrating.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 87 more.
Total: 3,233 (members: 88, guests: 3,145)

Online statistics

Members online
88
Guests online
3,145
Total visitors
3,233
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
593,288
Messages
17,983,808
Members
229,076
Latest member
rodrickheffley
Back
Top