IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[hambirg]

BBM
Thx for saying that, Hambirg, because I think you're right on the money!

Well it's just a hunch, but my hunches have been pretty good lately in other cases (if I have to say so myself :blushing1: ).

I'll go with that and post what I'm thinking now. This new information, although not that different, has shifted my focus from Brovan to down near the lake.

The girls were seen by WC and caught on cctv up on Brovan. We now know that they were seen on Gilbert between 12:30 and 1:00. I think the back side of that is important. . .LE said "several" witnesses saw them. I suspect the girls rode south, maybe to go past the skate park as some suspect, maybe for some other reason. I don't think they were going to meet someone and I think they were planning on being back home close to that 1:30 time.

I do believe they rode up Elmer and were seen by people using the park in the area that day. Maybe they just went to use the bathrooms and get a drink, or swing on the swings in the park, or to check out the dock, etc. But something happened after 1. They weren't seen after that. Where they last were is really important and I wish we knew. I don't believe they planned on riding around the lake on the trail. Sooo. .. they might have been lured there. . .or they were abducted from the bathrooms, the park, maybe by the tank.

I did wonder if they used the bathroom and came out to find their bikes gone. That would be an easy way to get the bikes and then the girls. The perp could have quickly loaded the bikes and then when the girls came out looking for them, called them over to the van to tell them about where their bikes were. Ugh!

We have to also consider that maybe they did ride the trail, but something about that doesn't feel right to me. We also have to consider if they left that area. . .headed towards home and were taken en route.

 

[hambirg]

Who is this guy?

I believe that is the creepy white van guy, 50-60 yrs old, that has been trying to lure children.

 

[Sunlight]

Several people saw them on Gilbert, but we don't know where on Gilbert..which side of Elmer? Both sides?
LE mentioning Elmer is significant IMO
If they did go where the water fountain and bathrooms are that is very significant.
Who was at the bathroom/water area at around 12:30 is really important IMO
How the bikes got over to the trail is still a mystery obviously.

I agree that they may have been heading to the skate park from Brogan and then ended up on their way back home at the bathroom/water fountain and never intended to go to the bike trail, but were nabbed before or lured there and then nabbed. They may have gone willingly, depending on who they met along the way.

MOO

 

[Sunlight]

I believe that is the creepy white van guy, 50-60 yrs old, that has been trying to lure children.

Gosh, I hope so!!!

 

[Marilynilpa]

O/T but related to meth use and what it can lead to:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/article_7824519d-4d14-5013-981f-dbb2caf9d5ee.html

Snip:

As the search for two missing cousins drags on in Evansdale, Linda Christie can't help but think about what happened to her granddaughter seven years ago.

"The parallels are running just too close," said Christie, of Waterloo.

Christie's son is the father of Evelyn Miller, the 5-year-old who disappeared from a Floyd apartment July 1, 2005. She was found dead in the Cedar River days later, and the slaying remains unsolved to this day.

Snip:

Evelyn's mother's live-in boyfriend, Casey Frederiksen, was later convicted of swiping cold medicine from the Wal-Mart where he worked and passing it to methamphetamine manufacturers near Woden.

"I think somebody killed her to shut her up," Christie said of her granddaughter's unsolved murder. "She had been kidnapped, murdered and thrown in the river like a piece of trash."

I am not saying the family is involved in the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth. There seems to be a lot of meth in the Waterloo/Evansdale area, and apparently meth causes people to do crazy things. JMO.

ETA: Here is Evelyn's WS thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25620&highlight=evelyn+miller

It looks like the last post was 7/6/11, so it looks like people have moved on because there hasn't been anything new. I pray this doesn't happen to Lyric and Elizabeth.

 

[Tucarra]

It just seems strange that it was after July 13th that we started hearing about all these abduction attempts.

Any event prompts additional awareness....and publicity.....

 

[Jules71]

Throwing out possibilities ....Mostly those who openly work in the community
Girl or boy scout leader

A mailman
Teacher
Coach
LE
Store clerk
Business owner

Doctor
Dentist
Nurse
Physical therapist
dog catcher
principal (my 1st grade principal was arrested for sexually abusing the kids!)
Counselor, psychologist, psychiatrist
Camp counselor (don't know if church camp is applicable to the girls)
MOO

Elderly person
Disabled person

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[daisynae]

O/T but related to meth use and what it can lead to:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/article_7824519d-4d14-5013-981f-dbb2caf9d5ee.html

Snip:

As the search for two missing cousins drags on in Evansdale, Linda Christie can't help but think about what happened to her granddaughter seven years ago.

"The parallels are running just too close," said Christie, of Waterloo.

Christie's son is the father of Evelyn Miller, the 5-year-old who disappeared from a Floyd apartment July 1, 2005. She was found dead in the Cedar River days later, and the slaying remains unsolved to this day.

Snip:

Evelyn's mother's live-in boyfriend, Casey Frederiksen, was later convicted of swiping cold medicine from the Wal-Mart where he worked and passing it to methamphetamine manufacturers near Woden.

"I think somebody killed her to shut her up," Christie said of her granddaughter's unsolved murder. "She had been kidnapped, murdered and thrown in the river like a piece of trash."

I am not saying the family is involved in the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth. There seems to be a lot of meth in the Waterloo/Evansdale area, and apparently meth causes people to do crazy things. JMO.

ETA: Here is Evelyn's WS thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25620&highlight=evelyn+miller

It looks like the last post was 7/6/11, so it looks like people have moved on because there hasn't been anything new. I pray this doesn't happen to Lyric and Elizabeth.

WoW! Thank you for that.
It really makes you think.
This drug does do crazzzy things to people
Like we need anymore crazzzy than we already have!

 

[Jules71]

Well it's just a hunch, but my hunches have been pretty good lately in other cases (if I have to say so myself :blushing1: ).

I'll go with that and post what I'm thinking now. This new information, although not that different, has shifted my focus from Brovan to down near the lake.

The girls were seen by WC and caught on cctv up on Brovan. We now know that they were seen on Gilbert between 12:30 and 1:00. I think the back side of that is important. . .LE said "several" witnesses saw them. I suspect the girls rode south, maybe to go past the skate park as some suspect, maybe for some other reason. I don't think they were going to meet someone and I think they were planning on being back home close to that 1:30 time.

I do believe they rode up Elmer and were seen by people using the park in the area that day. Maybe they just went to use the bathrooms and get a drink, or swing on the swings in the park, or to check out the dock, etc. But something happened after 1. They weren't seen after that. Where they last were is really important and I wish we knew. I don't believe they planned on riding around the lake on the trail. Sooo. .. they might have been lured there. . .or they were abducted from the bathrooms, the park, maybe by the tank.

I did wonder if they used the bathroom and came out to find their bikes gone. That would be an easy way to get the bikes and then the girls. The perp could have quickly loaded the bikes and then when the girls came out looking for them, called them over to the van to tell them about where their bikes were. Ugh!

We have to also consider that maybe they did ride the trail, but something about that doesn't feel right to me. We also have to consider if they left that area. . .headed towards home and were taken en route.

I think this is definitely a great possibility. They went to use the restrooms and came out to find their bikes missing. I just don't get the feeling the bikes were loaded into a vehicle at the parking lot and then unloaded at the spot where they were found. What if the perps rode them (or just the larger mtn bike) over to that spot. Then the girls walked or rode E's bike around to see if they could find it. Then they were taken from there?

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[otto]

@Otto..Would you consider doing a map from the bike trail where the bikes were found, up to Gilbert, right on Gilbert (going East) all the way to McCoy Rd., right on McCoy Road, and follow it to the end?

I'm wondering what you're thinking? Why would the girls go that far East?

 

[otto]

:gthanks: Another great map, otto!

I don't think southbound on I-380 would have been a quick route because of traffic delays due to the road construction.

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/vide...p-at-I-380US-20-near-Evansdale-167932845.html

Anyway, look what I found. There are several of these cameras along I-380 in the area. I hope they keep the film.

http://lb.511ia.org/ialb/cameras/camera.jsf?id=162&view=state&text=m&textOnly=false

Good find!

 

[Jules71]

If the bikes were seen abondoned on the trail by a witness at 2 (according to the DCI press release) and the girls were spotted on Gilbert by several people between 12:30 -1:00 then imo they were abducted between 1:00 and 2:00. So what was going on between 1:00 and 2:00 with any other witnesses or players we know about? Should we make a list?

Gma was driving around looking for the girls 12:30-1:30
Gma left to go meet Tammy in Waterloo (sometime between 1:30 and 2)
MCM was called and/or arrived at Heather's at 2
Drew came home (by 12:30 because gma said he was home when she left to look)
White van guy was at Casey's at 2 (?)
Missing posters initially said they were last seen riding bikes around 2


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[Sunlight]

I'm wondering what you're thinking? Why would the girls go that far East?

Not the girls. I'm thinking that the perpetrator(s) may have taken them that route after abducting them. It is a remote area with access to the Cedar River and some kind of lake/pond. Just a theory. Hope that helps. MOO

 

[TxLady2]

What I meant was, Lyric has probally met some of her parents wild friends.

It's my belief that drug addicts don't normally go around kidnapping kids. Some of them might be involved in other crimes, but for the most part the kind of perp that kidnaps and rapes/kills children are not your normal drug addict/dealer.

Now, I could be wrong, of course, because nothing is set in stone. People cross lines every day, but pedophiles sometimes live an otherwise everyday life with no one suspecting a thing. He may not live in E'dale... he could be a person who just visits there frequently. IDK, but I don't think it is at all related to the parents' friends or fellow druggies, or LE would have flushed them out. And I would imagine they were some of the first people they talked to.

JMO

 

[TxLady2]

A van that was white on the day, at least.

They very specifically wanted to speak to a white van driver, not a purple pinto driver, which implied to me that a white van was most likely used.

They are the most common after all, therefore the most likely to be accessed anyway, for someone who has gone to the planning trouble our perp appears to.

I believe the entire thing was planned to within an inch of its life, the girls barely even reached the lake, two different sets of bikes were involved, also the staging of scent designed to distract and steer the investigation.

I believe the LE need the abduction vehicle, most likely the white van, and cannot find it.

It probably contains the girls.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

lease:

???????????????????
Dear God, I hope not!! That would imply he's hauling their dead bodies around in the van. Nope... too smelly.
OR do you mean they are alive and being held captive in the back of the van? Nope... they gotta go to the bathroom sometime. Not to mention making a lot of noise if they're not bound and gagged.
Sorry... hate to discount your theory.
This may have been planned, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a van. He could have thrown them in the trunk of a car until he got out of town. Perps have been known to use pickups, small cars, big cars, 18-wheelers... you name it.

 

[Marilynilpa]

???????????????????
Dear God, I hope not!! That would imply he's hauling their dead bodies around in the van. Nope... too smelly.
OR do you mean they are alive and being held captive in the back of the van? Nope... they gotta go to the bathroom sometime. Not to mention making a lot of noise if they're not bound and gagged.
Sorry... hate to discount your theory.
This may have been planned, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a van. He could have thrown them in the trunk of a car until he got out of town. Perps have been known to use pickups, small cars, big cars, 18-wheelers... you name it.

I think the van and the girls were ditched somewhere. And unfortunately, I do not believe the girls are still alive. JMO

 

[Sunlight]

The question as to whether the girls are alive or not, is dependent upon the motive of the abduction.

If the abduction is by a pedophile they may or may not be alive. So there is a chance they are alive.

If the abduction is drug-related for leverage, there is a chance they are still alive. It depends on what the pay-off is for the abductor.

If the abduction was a joy-ride by youth...not so good.

If the abduction is by a first offender pedophile, I think there is more chance that they are alive. A molester is not necessarily a murderer.

If the abduction is by a serial killer...well..no chance on that one.

If the abduction is by a trial-related perp as a message..not a good outcome, and I think the girls would have been discovered a long time ago.

No bodies is always good news. No blood evidence as far as we know. No weapons, as far as we know.

There is always hope until this is solved once and for all.

MOO

 

[Marilynilpa]

My dear BF came into the room just as I finished reading about Ivy Merck, whose thread I've been following. She was found alive, and I was crying a few tears of joy.

My dear BF's first comment? "Oh, no, you're crying. Did they find the girls?"

At least I know he pays attention to me.

 

[nikb]

I think maybe Lyric was used to characters of a different nature, if ya know what I mean.

IMO I really don't think she was exposed to those characters much. She's lived with G'ma most of her life, I think.

 

[CHERIE.T]

If the bikes were seen abondoned on the trail by a witness at 2 (according to the DCI press release) and the girls were spotted on Gilbert by several people between 12:30 -1:00 then imo they were abducted between 1:00 and 2:00. So what was going on between 1:00 and 2:00 with any other witnesses or players we know about? Should we make a list?

Gma was driving around looking for the girls 12:30-1:30
Gma left to go meet Tammy in Waterloo (sometime between 1:30 and 2)
MCM was called and/or arrived at Heather's at 2
Drew came home (by 12:30 because gma said he was home when she left to look)
White van guy was at Casey's at 2 (?)
Missing posters initially said they were last seen riding bikes around 2


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That's one of my questions too Jules.what was going on between 1-2 ?
The girls must have been near the abductor.