IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

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The interception of two girls for sex and driving 25 miles doesn't ring likely. There has to more to this...

Grabbing two girls would be a high anxiety event for a stranger and most aren't that patient about getting what they want. Now, I don't know if they were alive at seven bridges but I am assuming that they walked to their final resting place.

Once there, he could have tied each to a tree...but getting them there may be difficult. Of course, he could have tied them in the car...this had to be one angry and vicious man.
 
Whisperer said:
I think it is too much of a coincidence that the bikes were found near an unlocked gate....at least I read the gate was not locked...just closed.

If the gate was always locked, I'd be looking at service people who have access.
Click to expand...

You are correct; the gate was closed and latched but not locked.
 
Okay, that shows me the bikes were tossed there along with the purse. I wish there was a PIC of the bikes laying on the trail.
 
Whisperer said:
The interception of two girls for sex and driving 25 miles doesn't ring likely. There has to more to this...

Grabbing two girls would be a high anxiety event for a stranger and most aren't that patient about getting what they want. Now, I don't know if they were alive at seven bridges but I am assuming that they walked to their final resting place.

Once there, he could have tied each to a tree...but getting them there may be difficult. Of course, he could have tied them in the car...this had to be one angry and vicious man.
Click to expand...

Agree completely.

This is far too well planned for a random grab in my opinion.

Warning some of the following theories may be too disturbing for some.

If it was a pedophile situation, he most likely take them somewhere with no chance of being disturbed.

A patch of forest just doesn't cut it in my mind.

Victoria Staffords abductors took her to a patch of forest but there was two of them and one of her, so they would have no fear about her escaping or making noise.

In the girls case, the wooded area was reasonably well frequented, quite close to town, and one perp could not be sure that he could control 2 children. The fact that the bodies were found quite far apart implies to me that this is the case. One perp would keep the girls together, probably even tied together. One child's distress at her cousin's suffering would be an aphrodisiac to a pedophile, and there would be no motive to separate the girls by 50ft...unless of course he let them run so he could hunt them down for fun. (Sorry).

Even 2 perps working together would have double the options of private places to take them, such as basements and sheds.

A random perp/s is not going to cart 2 little girls to a forest to rape and murder within hours of getting his prize. He is going to keep them alive somewhere, then bury them somewhere or chop them up and put them in the garbage like every other second perp (sorry). Not just kill them on the same day and leave them lying about like a couple of bags of garbage.

I'd just like to point out that my theory is based on all aspects of this crime (that we know of), most importantly that two girls were taken, unseen and unheard from the middle of town, and apparently murdered the same day.

Very, very unusual. So unusual in fact, that some of us think there is no way it was a random sexual abduction...the facts just don't add up.

I would go so far as to say that LE think the same way, hence no warnings of a "predator".

All my opinion of course.

:cow:
 
Disclaimer: This is based on my personal recollections of something that happened in 1975, when I was 11-years old, and the limited amount of information I've been able to find online.

Shortly after I started the 6th grade, something horrible happened to 2 boys (ages 12 & 13) that went to my school. They had gone together to the Nebraska State Fair, and they disappeared into thin air.

A few days later the first body was located (I believe it was in a local park), but it was a couple of weeks before they found the remains of the second (I think at a trainyard). Both boys were stabbed to death according to info I've been able to find online, and I've always known that something 'unspeakable' had happened to them.

The man charged with their murders was a serial killer who molested and killed boys. He was a transient named William 'Freight Train' Guatney.

I believe that Jake & Jon were the only 2 boys he took at the same time, but this guy managed to snatch them both from the middle of the Nebraska State Fair. Unbelievable at the time.

Now, sadly, I'll believe anything.

Pretty much, I think something very similar happened to Lyric & Elizabeth. My guess is the perp in this case is significantly younger and less experienced, but every bit as twisted.
 
Tennlyn said:
Disclaimer: This is based on my personal recollections of something that happened in 1975, when I was 11-years old, and the limited amount of information I've been able to find online.

Shortly after I started the 6th grade, something horrible happened to 2 boys (ages 12 & 13) that went to my school. They had gone together to the Nebraska State Fair, and they disappeared into thin air.

A few days later the first body was located (I believe it was in a local park), but it was a couple of weeks before they found the remains of the second (I think at a trainyard). Both boys were stabbed to death according to info I've been able to find online, and I've always known that something 'unspeakable' had happened to them.

The man charged with their murders was a serial killer who molested and killed boys. He was a transient named William 'Freight Train' Guatney.

I believe that Jake & Jon were the only 2 boys he took at the same time, but this guy managed to snatch them both from the middle of the Nebraska State Fair. Unbelievable at the time.

Now, sadly, I'll believe anything.

Pretty much, I think something very similar happened to Lyric & Elizabeth. My guess is the perp in this case is significantly younger and less experienced, but every bit as twisted.
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Indeed, it does happen.

It happened where I live, two little girls Kirsty Gordon and Joanne Ratcliff, who were abducted from a sell-out game of cricket, right in the middle of the city.

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Ratcliffe.htm

Joanne was older and was seen struggling and fighting when he carried Kirsty away. No one interfered because they assumed it was a father with a naughty daughter. This was back in the 70's.

However, both of these examples took place at crowded family events...places where a pedophile on a mission would expect to find a lot of children, some of whom would be alone. Joanne and Kirsty were taken when 11 year old Joanne took 4 year old Kirsty to the toilet.

The offender was also (most likely) Bevan Spencer Von Einem, a monster who haunted this state for decades and murdered many children, and is also believed responsible for the missing Beaumont Children. There have been no similar crimes in the vicinity of Evansdale or Waterloo, ever, as far as we know, so unless it happens again soon, it is likely not a serial offender.

This crime entails someone waiting around an under-used lake on the (very unlikely) offchance that what he was looking for would happen by.

This would increase his chance of being seen, exponentially. I know they will take risks if driven but this was too much of a risk with too little chance of a payoff. He needed a car (Joanne and Kirsty were initially abducted on foot) and a car parked where there is no official carpark is suspicious and draws attention.

School holidays at a lake - there will be more kids with parents beside them, than without, simply because it is a large body of water.

Just too risky in my opinion. If the girls had disappeared from a crowded Mall, say, I would feel differently.

Statistically, the chances of this crime being an unknown, random pedophile abduction is very low indeed, once you consider all the circumstances together.

Anyway just opinion. Others feel the exact opposite! :D
 
tlcya said:
O
M
G
!

Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot
?
?
?

I see that.

I don't know what to think about that :waitasec:
Click to expand...

Personally I don't think much about it, we've all probably posed smiling in a photo with a pedophile, we just don't know it. It's getting more and more common. :(

I'm assuming that's the comment you mean?
 
no, not that comment. There is a poster with Initial A female ostensibly from Greensboro NC who at the very end of page 22 who has a very skewed view of that gentleman in the discussed photo's past crime, and says some things that I find just mind boggling if that is indeed her opinion I wonder what dog she has in the fight.

ETA probably just your garden variety troll but lordy lordy. Very good at it.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/waterloo-ia/TR4679EOIDM7ATNGN/p22

I hadn't given that other thing much thought, as you say, it could happen innocently enough.
 
Does anyone have a link to the photo of a sex offender in the background that everyone is currently referring to? I can't find it anywhere. :waitasec:
 
tlcya said:
no, not that comment. There is a poster with Initial A female ostensibly from Greensboro NC who at the very end of page 22 who has a very skewed view of that gentleman in the discussed photo's past crime, and says some things that I find just mind boggling if that is indeed her opinion I wonder what dog she has in the fight.

ETA probably just your garden variety troll but lordy lordy. Very good at it.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/waterloo-ia/TR4679EOIDM7ATNGN/p22

I hadn't given that other thing much thought, as you say, it could happen innocently enough.
Click to expand...

As in blaming the victim???
 
chelsea6 said:
Here is a CNN transcript with Misty Morrissey:
I'm editing this to get up the link


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

GRACE: Did Lyric have a cell phone?



[GRACE: Did Lyric have a cell phone?

COOK-MORRISSEY: She has a cell phone that was at my mother`s, so she didn`t have one on her, no.

CNN interview with Misty Morrissey:-
I pulled out some statements to look at.


COOK-MORRISSEY: I left for work at 8:30 AM. She gave me a hug and a kiss and told me she would text me and let me know when I got off of work where she would be, either at Heather`s in Evansdale or back at our mother`s home in Waterloo.

~~~~~~~
GRACE: Did Lyric have a cell phone?

COOK-MORRISSEY: She has a cell phone that was at my mother`s, so she didn`t have one on her, no.

Then who's cell phone was found at the trail? Is there a LOT the media told us that was assumed, and possibly isn't true? (My opinion only)
Click to expand...

It was Elizabeth's.
 
Squeeze said:
It was Elizabeth's.
Click to expand...

Oh, that's right!! Boy do I feel stupid right now... :blushing: I edited it out so everyone wouldn't go looking for this before going to your post later for damage control... (Thanks so much Squeeze!!)
 
Squeeze said:
As in blaming the victim???
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yuh huh and as in blaming our girls parents for "letting" them be kidnapped off the street. :furious: Can't stand trolls glad we don't tolerate that here.
 
tlcya said:
yuh huh and as in blaming our girls parents for "letting" them be kidnapped off the street. :furious: Can't stand trolls glad we don't tolerate that here.
Click to expand...

I read all four hundred and something posts in the comments on that article last night. That person was making a point thru several posts that ALL parents are responsible for their childrens where abouts, knowing there are big bad wolves out there looking for prey, Parents have a responsibility and duty to keep their children out of harms way. Just because they need to be kids and be able to ride their bikes where ever it may be doesnt fit with reality, the wolves are there and us as parents know it and its our job to keep them from harm, and not be lacking in that duty.
It is the abductor, abuser, who evers fault that they took the girls, but parents also share some responsibility already knowing they are out there. Thats why they give out warnings when sexual preditors live in the area neighbor hood, so those responsible for children can keep them safe.
Thats what i got from those posts, i didnt think that person was trying to be a Troll, just realistic and honest with the facts of this world is how i saw them.

Oh heck! I went back to that article and the person i was speaking of their comments werent even on that page! Sorry
MOO
Artzy
 
Whisperer said:
I think it is too much of a coincidence that the bikes were found near an unlocked gate....at least I read the gate was not locked...just closed.

If the gate was always locked, I'd be looking at service people who have access.
Click to expand...

I don't think the gate being locked or unlocked is of any importance. It's just a gate . I mean if someone wanted to get past the gate, they could just walk around the fence. No big deal JMO
 
artzypantz said:
I read all four hundred and something posts in the comments on that article last night. That person was making a point thru several posts that ALL parents are responsible for their childrens where abouts, knowing there are big bad wolves out there looking for prey, Parents have a responsibility and duty to keep their children out of harms way. Just because they need to be kids and be able to ride their bikes where ever it may be doesnt fit with reality, the wolves are there and us as parents know it and its our job to keep them from harm, and not be lacking in that duty.
It is the abductor, abuser, who evers fault that they took the girls, but parents also share some responsibility already knowing they are out there. Thats why they give out warnings when sexual preditors live in the area neighbor hood, so those responsible for children can keep them safe.
Thats what i got from those posts, i didnt think that person was trying to be a Troll, just realistic and honest with the facts of this world is how i saw them.

Oh heck! I went back to that article and the person i was speaking of their comments werent even on that page! Sorry
MOO
Artzy
Click to expand...

That sounds a lot like the old 'stranger danger' claptrap.

If you look at the statistics on child abuse and particularly child sexual abuse, children are at far higher risk from adults in their own household than they are from being abducted by a non-household member.
 
cindersoot said:
I don't think the late being locked or unlocked is of any importance. It's just a gate . I mean if someone wanted to get past the gate, they could just walk around the fence. No big deal JMO
Click to expand...

Yeah, my impression is that the fence is there to keep bicyclists from falling into the lake. It doesn't really fully confine any area.
 
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