Perhaps you are thinking of low number count DNA, where the amount is so small that it cannot be conclusively used to identify someone, but it can be used to compare to existing DNA such that there are enough common factors that it conclusively implies a connection. That technology was used in the Knox case, but many people have tried to discredit the process (that was originally developed in the UK and which is now widely used) because it implied Knox's guilt.
IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32
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Perhaps you are thinking of low number count DNA, where the amount is so small that it cannot be conclusively used to identify someone, but it can be used to compare to existing DNA such that there are enough common factors that it conclusively implies a connection. That technology was used in the Knox case, but many people have tried to discredit the process (that was originally developed in the UK and which is now widely used) because it implied Knox's guilt.
iamnotagolem
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I think when the girls first went missing Klunder should have been a person of interest or at least checked into along with the other RSOs. Up until their bodies were found, it was an abduction of 2 girls. Only after their bodies were found did it become a possible homicide (I say possible since LE hasn't said homicide yet).
threecrazykids
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ONE of the 3 year olds was indeed harmed. In one of the earlier links about his past it stated that one of the toddlers had been choked and that when he left them he (allegedly) thought one of them was dead.
If by chance he IS involved, he could have choked L&L and the COD was possibly undetermined.
I do understand what you're saying though as far as him not coming onto the radar. Again, I agree that immediately he wouldn't be looked at...but IF they had reason to be checking further than Evansdale it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility that a murderer would drive 90 miles. That's not a long drive.
With the amount of time that has passed, one would think that a radius of 100 miles of Evansdale, just about every person who's committed a similar crime would have been looked into.
The lack of expansion of their searches certainly makes me wonder if they know (for whatever reason) that this person was local to Evansdale.
Just spins my head that there has been no arrest made and yet - despite the generic warning that only comes out when they are asked for updates - they don't seem to be concerned about this happening again.
iamnotagolem
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I guess my assumption is that when there was no suspect within 30 days they would expand their search. I wonder what kind of radius of RSOs was looked into, I wonder what radius of recent prison releases were looked into.
I guess I'm wondering if Klunder is not the perp if this will prompt LE to start looking at potential suspects outside the current radius that they are using.
I guess, hope, assume and wonder a lot in this case.....
BunnyHop
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I don't like to assume. You know what they say about that. :moo:
I prefer facts. Cold hard facts. I also prefer common sense.
When LE announced early on that they checked all RSO"s my hinky meter went off.
:fence:
I suppose we're interpretting the same information differently. I have read where police referenced the abduction/murder of Lyric and Elizabeth when warning parents to be careful with their children during the upcoming summer months. That information has been posted and linked in previous threads. I don't think a warning can be any more clear without inciting panic. That tells me that police have been clear in warning the public to be cautious with their children in light of what happened last summer.
Regarding the fact that Klunder abducted, assaulted and then released a 21 year old and then immediately abducted two 3 year olds that were not assaulted does not imply that Klunder is a good candidate for the adbuction and murder of two 8 and 10 year old girls. Personally, I don't see any common factors.
If police were expected to interview sex offenders outside of Evansdale, how would they determine where to start? Should they start at a 50 mile radius, 100, 200? Should they only interview offenders where there was a murder, only offenders that abducted pre-teen girls, only those that committed sexual assault? If they restricted themselves to 50 miles and murderers, they would still miss Klunder, if they restricted themselves to 100 miles and only girls that were between the ages of 8 and 12, they still miss Klunder. I think there are too many factors to zero in on Klunder based on what is known about the abduction/murder in Evansdale.
iamnotagolem
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Except the first 5 months the girls were missing it wasn't known that the girls were dead, so Klunder would have still made the list of abduction. Klunder's first victim was a 15 year old, then a 21 y/o then the two 3 y/o's. I would think with that broad of an age range that he would be on the radar for any abduction in any part of the state.
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_2a2025c0-c521-11e2-a593-001a4bcf887a.html
What I find interesting about his first victim being a 15 y/o whom he went to school with is that when looking at unsolved crimes in the evansdale area there were 4 girls who were 15-20 y/o in the 1970s (I'm just going off memory on age, Cindersoot probably can correct me) and I commented how if Lyric and Elizabeth were the same perps victims, then he may have started with someone his age that he knew. That theory would put the perp in his mid-late 50s.
threecrazykids
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Good points otto! I understand your explanation of how Klunder could be missed, but I still think the fact of having 2 children abducted at the same time should have blinked Klunder on the radar. That is certainly unique - until now, I am not aware of such a crime happening...and here we sit with 2 cases.
The retired police chief himself said that when E&L were abducted Klunder immediately came to his mind - yet he wasn't alarmed because he believed that he was still locked up.
I guess IMO it wouldn't have hurt for a phone call to be made just to be sure. It's not like they went missing last week. It's coming up on a year. Plenty of time to look into "long shots".
All it would have taken was a phone call to the tip line saying "hey...I know this may lead to nothing - but we had a case of MK abducting 2 toddlers, and although I believe he's still in prison it may not be a bad idea to check him out." Or, since he was retired he probably could have called the local office to have someone check on him still being locked up before he ever called the tip line. It wouldn't have hurt.
Hindsight is 20/20 of course. Maybe MK even being questioned in the E&L case would have prevented these two girls from being abducted...who knows? Maybe if he knew LE had him on their radar and even CONSIDERED him a possible suspect with E&L it would have deterred him from harming D and Kathlynn (although HIGHLY unlikely). With MK it doesn't appear it was a question of "IF" but more a question of "WHEN".
I think that there was hope that the children were alive, but I sure didn't think that they were alive. In any case, I don't think that police can be expected to interview sex offenders 100 miles away without something that suggests a connection.
If Klunder is responsible, this strikes me as nothing more than a "hindsight is 20-20" situation.
bbm - hey... I agree w/that part !!
And, in addition, I think I know you from another place and time.
O/T (and if so) , "hello, old friend... hello..."
"Questions continue to be raised about his possible involvement in the 2012 Evansdale kidnapping and murder of cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins. The cases, authorities have said, have similarities."
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_2a2025c0-c521-11e2-a593-001a4bcf887a.html
http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_2a2025c0-c521-11e2-a593-001a4bcf887a.html
BunnyHop
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bbm - hey... I agree w/that part !!
And, in addition, I think I know you from another place and time.
O/T (and if so) , "hello, old friend... hello..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ILDFp5DGA
No matter if he is involved with the girls, he was one violent person. Not just Gansen and the two 3 year olds.
snipped from the article
Upon his release in February 1988 he lived in Mason City. Later that month he choked a woman who was able to escape from him.
In 1991 Gansen was working in a Mason City restaurant when Klunder entered the restaurant with a woman and child.
“I was the only waitress there, but it didn’t matter,” she recalled. “The minute I saw him I turned right around and left.”
It wasn’t long before Klunder hit the news again. Released in February 1991, he kidnapped two little girls in December that year. They were found alive in a Dumpster near Northwood. A week later he abducted and assaulted a 21-year-old Rudd woman.
Klunder fled the area but was apprehended in Houston, Texas. He was once again sent to prison and released in 2011.
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ka...cle_f296ae5c-c4d1-11e2-859b-001a4bcf887a.html
That makes six females harmed by this Klunder & one of them is still missing sadly. (that is known) Not a long stretch to consider him a dead POI in the girl's murders. That would be 8 if he were connected.
Clearly a failure in the system to let this guy out knowing how violent he was. He fled the state before, he moved around to different towns. They have to investigate him. If they didn't and it's someone else, some defense lawyer would be sure to point that out as reasonable doubt if circumstantial evidence were all they had to go on charging someone else. jmo
snipped from the article
Upon his release in February 1988 he lived in Mason City. Later that month he choked a woman who was able to escape from him.
In 1991 Gansen was working in a Mason City restaurant when Klunder entered the restaurant with a woman and child.
“I was the only waitress there, but it didn’t matter,” she recalled. “The minute I saw him I turned right around and left.”
It wasn’t long before Klunder hit the news again. Released in February 1991, he kidnapped two little girls in December that year. They were found alive in a Dumpster near Northwood. A week later he abducted and assaulted a 21-year-old Rudd woman.
Klunder fled the area but was apprehended in Houston, Texas. He was once again sent to prison and released in 2011.
http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ka...cle_f296ae5c-c4d1-11e2-859b-001a4bcf887a.html
That makes six females harmed by this Klunder & one of them is still missing sadly. (that is known) Not a long stretch to consider him a dead POI in the girl's murders. That would be 8 if he were connected.
Clearly a failure in the system to let this guy out knowing how violent he was. He fled the state before, he moved around to different towns. They have to investigate him. If they didn't and it's someone else, some defense lawyer would be sure to point that out as reasonable doubt if circumstantial evidence were all they had to go on charging someone else. jmo
I talked with several editors at tv stations today. None could confirm the KCRG report last night saying that 'LE has found dna in the Cook-Collins case'. In fact these news managers I spoke with were perplexed about the KCRG report saying 'we all got the same news releases and we all have talked to the Chief of Police at Evansdale and all the same people, and nobody has said anything about dna having been found at 7_Bridges, or dna being compared between Klunder with dna collected in the Cook-Collins case'.
Every single news editor or news manager I talked to today said the same thing (almost verbatim): "Law Enforcement officials have told us they are not going to release specifics in the Cook-Collins case until an arrest and conviction have been made in the case." News people were unanimous on that point.
Nobody I talked to today could confirm that dna was found at 7-Bridges or at any other site in the Collins-Cook case, and is playing any role in this case.
I was completely transparent in my communications with news people today. I identified myself with my real name and gave my reason for concern and my credentials.
When applied to the skull, which is their intent, these guns fracture the skull bones. There are a lot of research studies on the effectiveness and humane aspect of these guns, as commonly used in all kinds of 'kill' situations on all kinds of animals (including at dog pounds), ... I was reading some of the studies two nights ago and should have brought several urls here ... let me try to backtrack and find a few urls (pdf's).
I dont think Klunder was on anyone's list, was he?
In addition there is the distance between him and Evansdale, without anything to connect him to the Evanadale scene last July.
The only thing that comes to my mind is his supposed Facebook relationship with someone in the Evansdale area .. but given that Klunder doesnt live in the Evansdale area 'would he be available to commit the crime' ?
You have to prove he was in the Evansdale area on the dates at issue.
If police were expected to interview sex offenders outside of Evansdale, how would they determine where to start? Should they start at a 50 mile radius, 100, 200? Should they only interview offenders where there was a murder, only offenders that abducted pre-teen girls, only those that committed sexual assault? If they restricted themselves to 50 miles and murderers, they would still miss Klunder, if they restricted themselves to 100 miles and only girls that were between the ages of 8 and 12, they still miss Klunder. I think there are too many factors to zero in on Klunder based on what is known about the abduction/murder in Evansdale.[/quote]
exactly - agree. :banghead:
exactly - agree. :banghead:
I would like to believe that this MK was the murderer of Lyric and Elizabeth so that it would finally bring some closure to their families, LE, the town and the state of Iowa. On the other hand, I almost hope it wasn't him because I want the person responsible to provide answers to all of the many questions we have and then pay for the rest of his life.
It's been ten days since the Dayton kidnapping. I seem to remember that BHC LE pretty quickly eliminated Austin Sigg in the JR case from being a suspect in this case.
I wonder if some DNA or other evidence that would prove Lyric and Elizabeth had been in one of the hog buildings has been found that peaked BHC's attention?
If MK had frequented any of the stores in Evansdale, I think his height alone would make him stand out to anyone who saw or waited on him. Hopefully after MK's identity and description were released, it may have jogged some witnesses to come forward with some new info.
It's been ten days since the Dayton kidnapping. I seem to remember that BHC LE pretty quickly eliminated Austin Sigg in the JR case from being a suspect in this case.
I wonder if some DNA or other evidence that would prove Lyric and Elizabeth had been in one of the hog buildings has been found that peaked BHC's attention?
If MK had frequented any of the stores in Evansdale, I think his height alone would make him stand out to anyone who saw or waited on him. Hopefully after MK's identity and description were released, it may have jogged some witnesses to come forward with some new info.
I'd start with the most violent ones within the state and so on who's motives had been towards young girls, teenage girls etc... Klunder had one 15 year old girl while a juvi, and the two 3 year olds which I have no idea why he took them and threw them into a dumpter after strangling one of them. Then there's the other two women from the article. He assaulted them. He's a big azz guy! Obviously, he had a disrespect towards females from an early age. I don't know how many they'd have to sift through to figure that out in surrounding counties but it seems obvious it was a local which includes those who had moved to Cedar Rapids, Waterloo, Waverly etc... He ranks up there. 2 or more victims, hands down, I'd be on him. dang, I wasn't...Focused in completely the wrong direction. Maybe E'dale was too? MK was cleary a perv that got off on the shock & horror factor of his crime. Austin Siggs and the sort. gah Truely sick people. The worst.
Who was it here that posted about their trips and posted pictures of the hog stockyards or buildings? hmmm They were on the right track but don't see them posting anymore. Help?
I also remember they were taking trips to hog buying places along their destinations (pictues too), the white van guy had a bolo on him. His dad owned a sausage making/ distributing place, iirc. An address close to the Collin's place too. That now stands out to this guy MK. Peeples? argh...sorry I forgot who posted originally.
Hey, I've sleuthed as much as I can on the family. Their court dates and arrests aren't telling me nothing and of couse the LE isn't tellin' nuthin'. As it stands, all I could speculate on is what the heck is going on with the trial dates being pushed forward so much!
What do I have to lose to ask these questions now? My only other guess is that JJB & RL. Nothing has happened so put that in file 86.
Hey, I've sleuthed as much as I can on the family. Their court dates and arrests aren't telling me nothing and of couse the LE isn't tellin' nuthin'. As it stands, all I could speculate on is what the heck is going on with the trial dates being pushed forward so much!
What do I have to lose to ask these questions now? My only other guess is that JJB & RL. Nothing has happened so put that in file 86.
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