IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #34

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I would be interested in knowing how many people who are put on trial for 1st degree or 2nd degree murder are acquitted.

eileenhawkeye, I tried researching acquittals in 1st & 2nd degree murder trials but came up empty..
Seems that the major issue is; Capital Judgments are Reversed on appeal after State Post-Conviction.

* 'Note 13 year old article'
http://www.truthinjustice.org/68percent.htm

©2000 Law.com
68 Percent Error Rate Found in Death Case Study
Author calls serious problems 'epidemic'
Marcia Coyle
The National Law Journal
June 9, 2000


In the past two decades, federal and state courts have overturned 68 percent of the death sentences they have reviewed because of serious errors in their trials, according to a new study. And in cases sent back for retrials, 82 percent of convicted capital defendants received new sentences that were other than death -- including 7 percent who were found innocent.
 
eileenhawkeye, I tried researching acquittals in 1st & 2nd degree murder trials but came up empty..
Seems that the major issue is; Capital Judgments are Reversed on appeal after State Post-Conviction.

* 'Note 13 year old article'
http://www.truthinjustice.org/68percent.htm

©2000 Law.com
68 Percent Error Rate Found in Death Case Study
Author calls serious problems 'epidemic'
Marcia Coyle
The National Law Journal
June 9, 2000


In the past two decades, federal and state courts have overturned 68 percent of the death sentences they have reviewed because of serious errors in their trials, according to a new study. And in cases sent back for retrials, 82 percent of convicted capital defendants received new sentences that were other than death -- including 7 percent who were found innocent.

Thanks for researching this.
 
Must admit to being fond of the show" Mystery Detectives", where cases are ultimately solved by DNA or other scientific proof which overides circumstantial evidence.
For example, the other night's case involved an escort who was found murdered and left on a road littered with a couple of beer bottles but no dna.just the imprint of a boot.
LE trace her last phone call to a young guy whose boots match the print. He of course proclaims his innocence and insists someone must have borrowed his boots, which sounds very unlikely.
LE go through all the batches of beer with the same serial number to track who bought that particular 6 pack.
Turns out they zero in on one loser in particular and what do you know, he knew the innocent guy and had briefly stayed at his place and yes, he did sneak out in his boots and clothes to commit the murder, cleaned the boots and put them back undetected. Scary to think in a different time and place the innocent guy no doubt would be found guilty due to circumstantial evidence.
 
Met a man from Nashville, TN, a couple of years ago that, for 3 decades, was very good friends with a person that was the primary suspect in a 9 yr old girls murder & rape in 1979. The suspect; 20 year old Jeffrey Womack, although later cleared for the crime, lives with the stigma over 3 decades later.

“Marcia Trimble Suspect Nabbed"

The File on 9 yr old Marcia Trimble
An Exhaustive Look at Nashville’s Most Notorious Unsolved Murder
by MATT PULLE
June 21, 2001 NEWS » FEATURES
http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/the-file-on-marcia-trimble/Content?oid=1185778


Editor’s note: For the next two weeks, a Nashville Scene investigation into the murder of 9-year-old Marcia Trimble will disclose never-before-published details of what ranks as one of this city’s most infamous crimes. In this week’s installment, law enforcement officials, who continue to pursue the killer, painstakingly reconstruct the crime.
As well, Virginia Trimble, Marcia’s mother, speaks for the first time in detail about the day her child was murdered.

In the summer of 1979, most Nashvillians had finally started to put the gruesome murder and sexual assault of Marcia Trimble behind them. Four years earlier, on an Easter Sunday, Trimble—a feisty 9-year-old with straight blond hair, blue eyes, and freckles—had been found dead in a neighbor’s garage. But if the case had begun to fade away for most of Nashville, it was still front and center at the Metro Police Department. There, officers were obsessively—some would say mindlessly—focused on the case.

“Marcia Trimble Suspect Nabbed"...

At the time of the murder, the suspect, Jeffrey Womack, had lived at 4102 Copeland Dr., a block uphill from the Trimble home at 4009 Copeland Dr., near Harpeth Hall. Womack had seen Marcia the day she disappeared. Now the 20-year-old Hillsboro High School dropout was staying with his brother at the Parkside Apartments at 3212 West End Ave., a stone’s throw from what is now Tin Angel restaurant. When four police cars converged outside the building, their suspect was calmly standing in front his apartment. Meeting the officers at the door, the barefoot Womack was clad in cut-off jeans and a Spats Restaurant T-shirt. Sporting a fresh mustache, he wore his brown, bushy hair down to his neck.
“I have been expecting you,” he reportedly told police.

“This is your day of reckoning,” one of the seven arresting officers sternly replied.
Womack did not protest his arrest. In fact, he took it calmly, although police do remember teardrops moistening his eyes as he tried not to cry. Handcuffed, he was hauled to Juvenile Court—he was 15 years old when the murder occurred—and charged with first-degree murder. He then was set free on $25,000 bond. Expressing the pent-up emotions of an entire city, the next day’s Nashville Bannerfairly exploded. “Marcia Trimble Suspect Nabbed,” screamed the headline across the top of the afternoon newspaper, which not only broke the story of Womack’s arrest but meticulously reported its finer details.

The Police Department’s actions on that August night more than two decades ago embodied everything right and wrong about its investigation. The officers were dogged and tireless. They were motivated by a sense of responsibility that often transcended their calling as cops. But some would say that very same sense of responsibility and commitment made them at times unable to handle the case in a professional way. Consider, for example, one of the arresting officers’ “day of reckoning” comment to Womack—the Trimble case had clearly gotten personal...
<sniped - Read More>
____________________________

http://www.nashvillescene.com/nashville/the-file-on-marcia-trimble-part-ii/Content?oid=1185794

The File on Marcia Trimble Part II
The ongoing hunt for the young girl&#8217;s killer yields a few possibilities but no clear answers
____________________________

http://nashvillecitypaper.com/taxonomy/term/10512
Barrett convicted of second degree murder of Marcia Trimble July 18, 2009
Jury deliberates for nine hours in a case that bring closure to Nashville mystery..

A Davidson County Criminal Court jury today found Jerome Barrett guilty of second-degree murder in the 1975 killing of Marcia Trimble. It imposed a sentence of 44 year
s.

The seven women and five men on the jury, nine of them white and three black, deliberated for nearly seven hours Friday and another two hours Saturday morning before reaching their verdict.

The key to the prosecution's case was the discovery of DNA on the murdered child's clothing that matched Barrett's with a probability of 6 trillion to one.

Judge Steve Dozier had instructed the jury to use the law in effect in 1975 as it considered the case and sentence. The death penalty was unconstitutional throughout the U.S. at the time the crime occurred.

Assistant Attorney General Tom Thurman, who has been working the case since 1990, said in a press conference that he was "extremely happy with the verdict for the Trimble family and for this community."

<READ More>
 
Isn't legal zoom the scam site by OJ's prior lead council that he still owes? No wait; he gave that to Phil Spector so spector owes him...I've heard that this site is not a "reliable one" fyi.
 
Isn't legal zoom the scam site by OJ's prior lead council that he still owes? No wait; he gave that to Phil Spector so spector owes him...I've heard that this site is not a "reliable one" fyi.

:blushing:

You are absolutely right about legalzoom - I should not have posted anything from that site.
 
Bumping for Lyric and Lizzie,

I certainly hope "no news is good news" applies in this case.
 
In an effort to keep conversation going on this thread, I'll stir the pot a little.

Who thinks LE has a suspect in this case but not enough evidence to file charges against him/her/them?

Who thinks LE may have arrested a suspect on other charges while they build a case against him/her/them for abducting and killing Lyric and Lizzie?

Who thinks LE has no idea who committed this terrible crime?

I look forward to reading everyone's comments!
 
In an effort to keep conversation going on this thread, I'll stir the pot a little.

Who thinks LE has a suspect in this case but not enough evidence to file charges against him/her/them?

Who thinks LE may have arrested a suspect on other charges while they build a case against him/her/them for abducting and killing Lyric and Lizzie?

Who thinks LE has no idea who committed this terrible crime?

I look forward to reading everyone's comments!

I can convince myself one day what I think LE is thinking...then the next I flip flop.

Today? I think LE has more than one suspect in the case but just doesn't have enough evidence to prove without a shadow of a doubt who all is involved. (Hence my "smoking gun" comment above).

On the other hand...I think the REASON that this evidence isn't in place is NOT because the evidence wasn't there to begin with, but that crime scenes were contaminated early on due to sloppy LE work not believing this was a real abduction they were facing. I think they thought the girls were alive - being held somewhere and were wrong. In turn...now all of the "evidence" they could have found/used is useless because some fancy lawyer will be able to at least bring a shadow of doubt.

So now they wait...and wait...and wait, to see if anyone runs their mouth or comes forward, because it's all they can do. I think they have more than one possibility as to who did this and how it played out but they can't pinpoint exactly how many players were involved.

In other words...I don't think we are a short time away from this being solved. I think if and when this comes out it will shock the community as to what happened...however, if I'm being REALLY honest, I think there are players involved and procedures etc. that did NOT go as they should and incompetency may play a role in why this case may not end in a guilty verdict even if someone IS arrested.
 
I think they have some evidence but no suspect, I think they have no idea and are hoping someone comes forward with something that will move the investigation forward. IMO
 
I can convince myself one day what I think LE is thinking...then the next I flip flop.

Today? I think LE has more than one suspect in the case but just doesn't have enough evidence to prove without a shadow of a doubt who all is involved. (Hence my "smoking gun" comment above).

On the other hand...I think the REASON that this evidence isn't in place is NOT because the evidence wasn't there to begin with, but that crime scenes were contaminated early on due to sloppy LE work not believing this was a real abduction they were facing. I think they thought the girls were alive - being held somewhere and were wrong. In turn...now all of the "evidence" they could have found/used is useless because some fancy lawyer will be able to at least bring a shadow of doubt.

So now they wait...and wait...and wait, to see if anyone runs their I or comes forward, because it's all they can do. I think they have more than one possibility as to who did this and how it played out but they can't pinpoint exactly how many players were involved.

As usual, I agree with you (including the part about flip-flopping!).
 
I think they have some evidence but no suspect, I think they have no idea and are hoping someone comes forward with something that will move the investigation forward. IMO

BBM

Do you feel LE has DNA evidence?
 
I don't think they have a suspect.
They may have gathered a little evidence when the girls were found, such as zip ties, a rope or gun shells, maybe even a cause of death. but no DNA or anything that could identify a suspect.
I think their only hope would be to find another similar type case which could connect some of the same type of evidence to this case.
I guess that's why I was leaning toward M Klunder.
 
BBM

Do you feel LE has DNA evidence?

On the fence with that one because I hope so bad that they do, in either case, if they do have some it's worthless if they can't match it up with the killer.
 
It's been so long and were still waiting for answer's . I still feel Klunder was involved . He had the freezer's available to him no one had access to them but him. The Hunter's that found the girl's sort of hinted that they recognized them. I know DNA takes a long time it was almost eight months before we heard if a DNA match was made for my missing sister then we knew it wasn't my sister , I had to secure the help of a personal friend to finally get an answer . I know it take's a long time and they have to be 100 percent sure we should get some infomation regarding the girl's this is a loog haul for all of us . Our girl's deserved to live their life and some creep destroyed their's I pray they find out who did this horrfic deed soon . Rest in Peace L&E
 
well, one clue we have is that the person had a vehicle, or access to one. 7 Bridges is quite isolated and these girls must have been transported there somehow.

I think a young man may be responsible, but if so, he would have to have access to a vehicle. Then I had a horrible thought, wondering if a parent would finish the deed to protect their child (sorta like a cover-up) by placing the body @ 7 B's.

Gosh, who knows? It could be so one of so many theories because we need more clues and information to assist LE. It is getting close to a year now!

I still think a college kid, FWIW.
 
I don't think they have a suspect.
They may have gathered a little evidence when the girls were found, such as zip ties, a rope or gun shells, maybe even a cause of death. but no DNA or anything that could identify a suspect.
I think their only hope would be to find another similar type case which could connect some of the same type of evidence to this case.
I guess that's why I was leaning toward M Klunder.

I think they have a suspect, but no DNA. I think they have a lot of circumstantial evidence but nothing concrete, and they are still looking for witnesses to tie the timeline together with their suspect.
 
I think it was someone the girls knew, even slightly, and went with willingly. I am tending to someone younger, who the girls thought of as trustworthy and fun, probably upbeat, and they never suspected a thing. I don't think it was a case of opportunity, I think the plan was to get these 2 specific girls.

Maybe the girls were out and about more than we were told, even their families knew, and they were being watched and groomed. I am not blaming the girls at all, I believe kids should be able to ride their bikes around without fear of being kidnapped or attacked. A clue to me of grooming were the girls pouring the drinks, then rushing out. It was lunchtime, yet they did not eat and did not come back to eat. Something stronger than lunch had their attention.

I think they were to meet the suspect at the lake, and he may have driven or ridden a bike right by their house, that is what got their attention. I think he had his motorized vehicle parked in or near Maiden Lane, and may have had access to a building close by. I think the kidnapper knows the whole area very well, Maiden Lane and 7 Bridges, like the back of their hand. It is a person who blends in, who few would suspect capable, there is a dark hidden side to the guilty one.

The kidnapper may have done it for money, for revenge, or to repay a debt of some kind but I don't think he acted alone. As part of a deal, may have handed the girls over to someone else untouched and unharmed, and did not expect them to end up dead. I don't think sex was the motivation, but I suspect drugs had a part in this.

I think it is a complicated web, involving more than one person. I do not believe a stranger pervert happened to drive by that day, saw the girls, grabbed them, killed them, and drove to 7 Bridges, or grabbed them, subdued them, drove them to 7 Bridges, and killed them.
 
I think LE has a strong suspect but not enough evidence to be sure of a conviction, thus no arrest (or announcement if it was Klunder) yet. I see several possibilities and can't put my finger on which without knowing what LE knows. My gut still says probably only one person and this was an opportunistic sex crime.
 
I think they have a suspect, but no DNA. I think they have a lot of circumstantial evidence but nothing concrete, and they are still looking for witnesses to tie the timeline together with their suspect.

Actually, maybe if I weren't stuck on my own theory of it being an RSO, my own theory here would make more sense. Maybe they do have DNA, but if the perps DNA is not in the system, perhaps he just has petty offenses with no reason for them to have his DNA. At what level do they take DNA? Felony convictions?
 
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