IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[*02]

On Noreen's site it shows 2 pictures side by side, one of him in the sweatpants and the one of the three boys. I believe the first pic is the one she was referring to about the pants.

ETA: Inquiring and I were posting at the same time. Thanks for posting the pics.

 

[less0305]

Thanks for clearing that up, Inquiringmindz. I guess I didn't understand at first that she received two pictures.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I copied the pictures earlier today to try and enhance them. Still working on that but here they are:

[url="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/JT.jpg"]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/JT.jpg[/url]

[url="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/three.jpg"]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/three.jpg[/url]

Have you found anything, Shadow?

Sleeve of the No 15 shirt sleeve looks like it has Lettering , then underneath
Jimmy or Johnny ?somebody.
New York is under the 15. New york mets probably.

I assume this is a football shirt, but I am not up on who the a famous number 15 was.

Also the chld/maybe girl on left of photo, it you do a 90 degree motion it stand straight up.
Center child has very difined border on hair, like cut and paste.

Just some observations.

 

[sillyhead]

And I thought the JonBenet case was convoluted! I somehow ended up reading about Reyelen Allen, OMG! I know one thing, though, I will never read anything written by Alex Jones again. Whew!

That boyexploited guy sounds like someone I know of from another site, but he's from PA. Freaks everywhere!

I sure hope this goes somewhere. The JMK stuff has me feeling despondent.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I'm in the group of people who think that mother has gone off the deep end, whether because of her son's disappearance, or even before that.

It's a sad case, anyway, and I hope these photographs can lead to some resolution.

 

[misterallgood]

So, anyone wonder why a kidnapper would buy Johnny a whole new outfit? Because that appears it would have been the case -- the kid in the white jeans, I mean. There's the one photo of (allegedly) Johnny in sweats, then he's in jeans.

In both, he's wearing socks.

From the Doe Network listing on Johnny:

Clothing: A white sweatshirt with Kim's Academy imprinted on the back, warm-up pants and blue rubber thong sandals.

​

Johnny was wearing socks with thong sandals in early September, when it would have likely still been warm, even in Iowa?

I think, taken on their own merits, there is no doubt these photos are really troubling. But I have some problems with them surfacing now, and the source. Have any of you read up much on what Noreen's said in the past?

I think the timing of reports about these photos is really suspicious. But after the last couple of weeks of clamoring about the useless little weirdo, John Mark Karr, I'm probably overly-skeptical about "stunning new developments" in stories like these.

Steve

edited to add: I double-checked -- okay, the kid in the dark sweats is barefoot... lending credence to the idea that that particular photo could really be of Johnny Gosch. I still want to know why the kid Noreen says is Johnny in the other photo is wearing an entirely different set of clothing. I have a hard time making sense out of that.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Have any of you read up much on what Noreen's said in the past?

Yes, which is why I've long thought that she's off the deep end.

 

[inquiringmindz]

So, anyone wonder why a kidnapper would buy Johnny a whole new outfit? Because that appears it would have been the case -- the kid in the white jeans, I mean. There's the one photo of (allegedly) Johnny in sweats, then he's in jeans.

edited to add: I double-checked -- okay, the kid in the dark sweats is barefoot... lending credence to the idea that that particular photo could really be of Johnny Gosch. I still want to know why the kid Noreen says is Johnny in the other photo is wearing an entirely different set of clothing. I have a hard time making sense out of that.

I was wondering what the time difference was inbetween pictures. I would assume whoever took these children would have more than one set of clothes for them. If they were kidnapped for some sort of sex ring, I would think they would need to look presentable and in clean clothes.

Yes, in IA you can still wear thongs and sweats in September. Our weather is crazy here, 50 in the morning and 80 by afternoon.

Also,shadow205 found a new news report in which other people involved with the case also received these pictures. I don't know if the time frame coincides with when his mother received them or not.
http://www.wral.com/news/9778102/detail.html

 

[Trocaria]

I think the photo will give Noreen Gosch credibility, which she has not been given by LE. Over the years she's said some strange things and has made strange accusations, but who's to say how anyone would react over the kidnapping of a child. I think she's grasping at strings by charging that Jeff Gannon is her child.

But, who would send these photos - on her birthday - and why?

Maybe this is a method of

A) Johnny himself trying to get the case back on the front page and hopefully break the case. Noreen was not the only person to get these photos.

B) The ring trying to flush Johnny out of hiding so that they can knock him off

I predict that the Des Moines LE will pooh-pooh the whole thing and claim that it is not Johnny or that it was photoshopped or some other such lame excuse for it not being what even the most casual viewer can tell it is: a photo of a kidnapped Johnny Gosch!

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<So, anyone wonder why a kidnapper would buy Johnny a whole new outfit? >>

Because it's obvious in this case that they kept him longterm, not just a random pedophile at work here.

If there is a conspiracy operating here, I imagine that they'd like nothing better for everyone to believe that Noreen's crazy.

Fine, be a skeptic, but keep an open mind.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Since Noreen claims that Johnny came to see her in 1997, and if the photos are 'real', she might have had the photos since 1997.

In this linked interview, Noreen apparently said that Johnny is going by the names of Jeff Gannon and James Guckert as a blogger or bloggers, working as a reporter "around George Bush": http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/03/313178.shtml

 

[Shadow205]

Since Noreen claims that Johnny came to see her in 1997, and if the photos are 'real', she might have had the photos since 1997.

In this linked interview, Noreen apparently said that Johnny is going by the names of Jeff Gannon and James Guckert as a blogger or bloggers, working as a reporter "around George Bush": http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/03/313178.shtml

Here is a link to Jeff Gannon's blog

http://www.jeffgannon.com/

 

[i.b.nora]

T E D
G U N D E R S O N

Enough said. - i.b.

 

[Shadow205]

Since I.B. Nora brought up Ted Gunderson, here is a link to his website. Those who have not followed this case through all of the bizarr twists, turns & accusations need to read writtings from all involved in order to form their own opinions.

http://www.tedgunderson.com/Bohemian%20Grove/Articles/TOTAL%20INFORMATION%20ANALYSIS.htm

 

[LovelyPigeon]

From wikipedia.com:

Johnny Gosch and Jeff Gannon
In 2005, Gosch was the subject of a conspiracy theory centering around conservative journalist Jeff Gannon. In the 1990's, Gannon ran a homosexual escort service under his real name, James Guckert. Gannon/Guckert's escort service reportedly serviced Washington, D.C. political clients, and paid visits to the White House. The first public speculation linking the two cases occurred on February 26, 2005, on The Democratic Underground, a liberal political website.

Skeptics of the Gannon connection point out that no DNA evidence has ever been tendered, the ages of Gosch and Gannon do not match, nor do they resemble one another. Gannon himself does not lend any credence to the theory and flatly denies that he is Johnny Gosch. Conspiracy theorists counter that Gannon may be unaware he is Gosch, all memory of his past life perhaps obliterated by MK-Ultra, Project Monarch, or complicity with the conspiracy.

On July 8, 2005 Jeff Gannon called into the radio program A Closer Look hosted by Michael Corbin and agreed to take a DNA test to prove he was not the missing boy. As of June 2006 Gannon has not taken the test even though the offer remains open with Johnny's mom Noreen Gosch. On May 10, 2006 occult author William H. Kennedy was a guest on A Closer Look and renewed the offer for Gannon to take the DNA test with Norren Gosch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch

 

[Shadow205]

I don't understand why Gannon doesn't just do the DNA test. If her is absolutely certain that he is not Johnny then the DNA test would be an end to this. If he isn't so sure or knows that he is Johnny then I can see why he might not want to do the DNA test.

There is so much to read on all of the people who could possibly be connected to the dissapearance of Johnny Gosch that it is going to be quite a while before I form an opinion on this one.

 

[misterallgood]

Hey, I've been one of those people who said things like, "fine, be a skeptic." I know that phrases like that really mean that the skeptic is perceived as needling the non-skeptic.

Please do not take my skepticism personally.

As to open mind -- after all the research I've done writing professionally and as a blogger over the last couple of years, I've found that more often than not, the more prosaic answer is the resolution of the mystery. BTK was a nebbishy dog catcher in Park City, not Hannibal Lecter.

Conversely, when the Groene children were first abducted, I just couldn't believe that family had been killed by a sexual predator so motivated to kidnap two children that he would kill three other people with exceptional violence to do so. Turns out I was dead wrong, unfortunately, and that was (allegedly) precisely what happened. I know there are exceptions to all these 'rules.'

I will say this -- one angle I can't even begin to seriously entertain is the Jeff Gannon/James Guckert/Johnny Gosch connection. Guckert is 10 years older than Gosch would have been. How much plastic surgery would Johnny have had to end up looking like Guckert? The bone structure is all wrong.

That said, I know there are a ton of people who can't stand the idea that a story like this may be simpler than it seems. I don't completely reject the idea that some sort of network of sexual predators might have been responsible for Johnny's disappearance as well as some of the photos Noreen has -- but I don't accept it at face value, is what I'm saying.

Steve

 

[cappuccina]

...I think that Johnny's mom just "lost it" after her son was kidnapped, and in her grief concocted a fantasy world so that she could cope...One cannot be angry with her; she needs a lot of help. Unfortunately, she was not as resilient as, for example, Patty Wetterling, who channeled her grief and anger into doing some great things to help keep kids safe...

I really subscribe to the Occam's razor theory of crime solving, i.e., that the most simple, unfettered explanation for a crime, is usually the closest to the truth....I cannot say anything negative about Johnny's mom though, as it is easy to see how someone could totally lose it after their child was kidnapped and most likely murdered....

 

[LovelyPigeon]

One cannot be angry with her; she needs a lot of help. Unfortunately, she was not as resilient as, for example, Patty Wetterling, who channeled her grief and anger into doing some great things to help keep kids safe...

Also unfortunately, she got caught up with Ted Gunderson who fueled the conspiracy 'explanation' with his outrageous theories and canards.

There's mystery in that we don't know if the man who visited Noreen saying he was her adult son but could never contact her again was really her long-lost son, or if Noreen made up/imagined the entire 'visit'.

There's mystery about these photos, as we don't know how old they are, and who and what they portray.

There's no mystery about James Gannon/James Guckert, though. He's not Gosch and it doesn't take a DNA test to realize that he's not.

 

[mjak]

I enjlarged the photo of the three boys. I agree with Beyond belief that the child on the right maybe a girl. Seems he/she has busy hair when the picture is rotated. I also noticed this childs arms seem to be tied with thoes plastic disposable handcuff things that police offers use. This is very intresting becuase to my understand that is an item only available to Law enforcement and not something easier for a hoaxer to get. This would also be distrubingly consitant with Ms. Gosch's belief that law enforcment and government are involved with her sons dissapearnce. Does anyone know if these plastic handcuff ties were being used back in the early 80's?

mjak