ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 23

[The Observer]

How do you carry out stomach stabs x 4 with two persons in the same room?

Not immediate death, nor screaming

That sounds at least high risk strategy with hate crime motive? Imoo

Being mindful four victims over time

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

www.ci.moscow.id.us

If the perp was an experienced hunter it's not as difficult as you might think. There's a reason that syle knife was used. A skilled stab wound a vital area and the perp with a hand placed over the victim's mouth to muffle their gasping for air could render them incapacitated. Depends what position they were sleeping in. Which is another reason K could have allegedly had 'significantly more brutal' wounds, perhaps she woke, opened her eyes, etc and the killer frenzy stabbed her in a panic. All IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I am curious about the Halloween party. does anyone have any details or links with photos?

 

[avalonisland]

Case just bugs the hell out of me. I went to college and lived in unsecured apartments. My kids all went to college and lived in apartments, some of them seedy. I cry for these kids and their families. Some thoughts:
1. The guy had to know general house layout. Too risky to go into house in middle of night to do what he did without knowing layout.
2. it was a party house right? Start making lists of who attended the parties. You have two surviving roommates.
3. cops have zero security camera footage of the killer. Hard to believe. But if they did you know we all would have seen grainy, dark camera footage of some guy walking across campus by now on the news, asking if anybody recognizes him.
4. I think he has killed before. Who does something like this on the first kill.
5. It was targeted. The cops were early to say that. They have some clear evidence that they won’t share with public.
6. The guy used a knife either because he wanted to make it personal or didn’t want to deal with the noise and evidence that a gun leaves.
7. the guy was smart. He must have changed clothes and possibly showered at the apartment. Anybody see a guy walking around with a backpack at 4 a.m? He must have left his cell phone at home. The cops have checked phone records for cell tower pings from that area by now and if he took his phone you would think we would have suspect by now.
8. cops should tell landlords to notify them if anybody moves out in next few months
9. I think the break will come from DNA and possibly genetic genealogy
10. probably not as difficult as we think to kill four drunk people in the middle of the night while they sleep.

I agree. I almost wonder that since there has been no arrests of any college students that this was someone older and not UI college student. The fact that killer would kill 2 victims on 3rd floor; not injure the 2 roommates on 1st floor; and successfully kill 2 victims on 2nd floor plus manage to exit house without any blood trail of killer or victims is just baffling to me.
<modsnip - not as reported in MSM>

Also, I cannot imagine the dog being left in a room til late in morning without being fed or walked. I still believe dog dropped off by in late AM perhaps by someone dogsitting.

 

[everybodhi]

Someone must have thought about this. It's a big risk with six people in the house.

Four people stabbed with knives on two separate floors. That's a lot of thought, experience even?

Two knives? Is that true? I haven’t read that

Sorry I misread your post
[embarrassed emoji belongs here]

 

[Deleted member 110058]

I'm sure this has been mentioned but I cannot get rid of the thought that the murderer perhaps was an Incel.
This group of kids were everything that the Incel community hates.
I have no doubt that LE has considered this angle.
Here's an article I found discussing the very concerning Incel community.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/09/22/incels-rape-murder-study/

 

[kwa]

Your statement about the killer knowing the layout of the home has me conflicted.

There’s a part of me that says yes he definitely knew the layout of the home based on his actions that early morning 3-4am on Nov 13. However, another part of me says maybe he didn’t know the home all that well since he left 2 survivors on the first floor.

I think your conflicted views can be reconciled. A killer who became fixated on girl(s) in the house may have been watching the house from the back (the wooded side with sliding glass doors). From that vantage point, particularly at night with lights on in the house, the layout of the 2nd and 3rd floors would be discernible — while the first floor (a level down and on the opposite side of the house) could easily go unobserved.

 

[EmmieA]

I want to apologize because earlier I said in this thread that E and X left the party at 9:00 p.m. and it was unknown where they were after that, but the police have updated that information to say they were at the party till 1:45 am. That's what is currently on their Facebook page. They have given conflicting or confusing info about this in the past.

I'm beginning to suspect that something may happened at the party, since it appears police are still unclear about it. I wonder how forthcoming the frat has been.

No worries Smelly Squirrel: That has been confusing to a lot of us. And they’re still being wishy-washy by saying E & X are believed to have been there during that time. I think they know.
BBM: I’m wondering the same. I’m also wondering if there was a POI there & they want more proof

MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Additionally, most hunters I know pay to have their kills processed and butchered. They don't do it themselves. Skilled with Bows and Rifles...yes. Knives, not so much. But, that's my experience.

My main case study is Barry Morphew. Field dresser extraordinaire.

 

[HawkFan]

KA-BAR USMC knife at => $90USD suggests this was not a "crime of passion" imho

Someone did not just grab a knife from the kitchen drawer. This was premeditated by someone who bought the knife with a specific purpose and says a lot about the perpetrator IMHO

The knife is designed for killing. Targeting the current victims a heinous act of cowardice.



#1122 #king #moscow

Or the killer had owned the KA-BAR knife for quite awhile because he was an avid hunter and would use it to cut up his deer/elk after shooting it in the wild. It would also mean the killer was skilled at using a knife like that and could easily stab his victims without much trouble. He would also be used to seeing a lot of blood so that wouldn’t bother him too much either.

Sometimes hunters post pictures on social media after killing the animal to show off their “trophy”. They may even have a lot of blood on their clothes and display the knives that they used cut up the animal in their photos (which is often done by hunters). Just my thoughts.

 

[KPO]

I think your conflicted views can be reconciled. A killer who became fixated on girl(s) in the house may have been watching the house from the back (the wooded side with sliding glass doors). From that vantage point, particularly at night with lights on in the house, the layout of the 2nd and 3rd floors would be discernible — while the first floor (a level down and on the opposite side of the house) could easily go unobserved.

Fixated on a girl in the house but never checked it from a different vantage point? From almost every angle, you can see there is a 1st floor.

 

[WildWest]

they explained it in a later post.

You know I was responding, not the one that posted ID being next to Cali, right?

 

[EmmieA]

Jumping ahead ...lol I'm such a rebel. I've been following along but rarely have anything to add to this fast moving thread. But in regards to the topic of "LE purposely misleading media etc for purpose of investigation" I'm hoping one of you websleuthers can help me recall the case.

The case involved a woman that had gone missing and at some point her body was found but I can't recall at what point. She may have been pregnant....or not lol. Sorry I'm hazy on the details....but specifically LE requested the family embrace and love on the missing woman's husband/boyfriend during a press conference/media interview where they pled for the perp to come forward. All the while....the family and LE knew the husband/bf was responsible but did not want to show their hand.

This happened within the last 10 years or so.....keeping fingers crossed someone will remember it! Thanks in advance!

I believe you’re thinking of Laura Wallen. I’ll never forget that press conference

 

[Deleted member 110058]

For some reason I can't get my head around the idea that the killer was in the house when K & M got home. I mean that would mean that they were there not only when K&M got home but also when X & E got home. We know that K & M made phone calls after they got home. So I think the killer entered the home after they had gone to bed. Probably waited until they thought the victims were asleep. MOO

I agree with you. The risk involved of waiting inside would have been very high. Via FBI profiling, we know that Mass Murders tend to kill close to their home or in an area that they know well. This is to lower the risk of getting caught.
I think that this was a well planned event and that the murderer was in/out as quickly as possible.

 

[Mercedes]

Canada would be a little riskier because you can't just show up. Canada will know he's there. if I were doing this, I'd cross over to Pullman. for one thing, no vehicle checkpoints in WA. WA has enhanced privacy protections. Dropping down into or is possible, but it leaves you just nowhere. it's easier to disappear into a crowd.

The alcohol related event on Band Field at 3:01am the morning of the murders. It has been ruled by police that it’s unrelated to the murders but the body cams could have info on them.

MOO

Have you heard if LE plans to review the body cams?

 

[debirlfan]

Fixated on a girl in the house but never checked it from a different vantage point? From almost every angle, you can see there is a 1st floor.

I think it depends on what you're used to? I've lived in houses with walk out basements that WERE basements all my life. Seeing that house, it never would have occurred to me that there were bedrooms on that level. I'd expect furnace, water heater, laundry, maybe a rec room, but not bedrooms.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Has anyone mentioned a Bowie Knife, sorry if so, could be the weapon, imo.

What is special about a bowie knife?

Bowie knives often had an upper guard that bent forward at an angle (an S-guard) intended to catch an opponent's blade or provide protection to the owner's hand during parries and corps-a-corps. Some Bowie knives had a notch on the bottom of the blade near the hilt known as a "Spanish Notch”.

Bowie knife - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I wonder if the killer has the knife still in their possession (early in investigation LE mentioned it may be ‘coveted by the killer’, I think he meant cherished or treasured, keep it close?)

or has he buried it close by. Hopefully, any disturbed soil or small mounds are being checked out. JMO

 

[LAhiker]

I want to apologize because earlier I said in this thread that E and X left the party at 9:00 p.m. and it was unknown where they were after that, but the police have updated that information to say they were at the party till 1:45 am. That's what is currently on their Facebook page. They have given conflicting or confusing info about this in the past.

I'm beginning to suspect that something may happened at the party, since it appears police are still unclear about it. I wonder how forthcoming the frat has been.

More specifically, in their Facebook post, the Moscow police have said that E & X were believed to be at the fraternity until 1:45am. They don't actually say they were at the party.

"Detectives continue investigating what occurred from approximately 9 p.m. on November 12th to 1:45 a.m. on November 13th, when Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle were believed to be at the Sigma Chi house on the University of Idaho Campus at 735 Nez Perce Drive."

Now, maybe the frat house was one big party. But if E & X were indeed at the fraternity until 1:45am, maybe they were in one of the rooms instead of at the party itself. (I forget -- did E have a room at the fraternity?)

JMO

 

[Normamsmiley]

I agree with you. The risk involved of waiting inside would have been very high. Via FBI profiling, we know that Mass Murders tend to kill close to their home or in an area that they know well. This is to lower the risk of getting caught.
I think that this was a well planned event and that the murderer was in/out as quickly as possible.

I actually think that hiding in the house and waiting is safer then walking into a home with 6 people in it.

I also think it would explain a lot. Maybe the killer didn’t go upstairs like SG stated, but was already there waiting. Perhaps in K’s closet waiting for her to go to bed. Perhaps his goal was SA, perhaps it was just to watch or maybe it was actually to kill.

But when she went to bed with M, his plan was thrown off. After they fell asleep and stopped talking, he quietly opened M’s door, and killed the two of them.

The way the layout of the 2nd floor has been shown, it doesn’t look like X’s room is super easy to get to, so I’m not sure what potentially happened next.

 

[Deleted member 110058]

I actually think that hiding in the house and waiting is safer then walking into a home with 6 people in it.

I also think it would explain a lot. Maybe the killer didn’t go upstairs like SG stated, but was already there waiting. Perhaps in K’s closet waiting for her to go to bed. Perhaps his goal was SA, perhaps it was just to watch or maybe it was actually to kill.

But when she went to bed with M, his plan was thrown off. After they fell asleep and stopped talking, he quietly opened M’s door, and killed the two of them.

The way the layout of the 2nd floor has been shown, it doesn’t look like X’s room is super easy to get to, so I’m not sure what potentially happened next.

These are all good thoughts. Appreciate you stating them.

 

[dannlarusso]

Been following this case for the last week in Sydney, Australia and have been reading and watching everything I can daily. I've lasted this long pondering to myself and have discussed with colleagues and friends non-stop.

The Killer (IMHO of course):

• Likely known to one or all housemates, whether it be personal or simply within their social orbit. Potentially have partied at the home previously. Knowing the general layout of the house internally is no doubt helpful but I don't think they NEEDED to know who slept where, etc to pull this off (more on this a bit later).
• I don't believe the killer needs to be a hunter, or have killed previously. As someone stated earlier hunters would have primarily used rifles (or a bow and arrow in some cases) and knife usage is only something used once a kill has been made. They would have no more skill with a knife than your average cook.
• One point I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is how de-sensitised people are to gore in this day and age. Any Gen Z individual, especially male, have grown up in a digital age of ISIS videos, 4chan, you name it. I personally have browsed 4chan for years and have seen some truly sick and depraved content and stuff that would have shocked/sickened me to my core 10+ years ago which barely have an effect on me these days, it's quite sad.
• They would live close by - purely a guess based on no information/evidence shared about vehicle noise or cam footage so far. Would also help to explain (maybe) how they were confident enough to commit the crime and get away without being seen.

How it went down (IMHO again):

• I don't feel like it was planned months or weeks in advance with a knife purchase made specifically for this crime. I own a KA-BAR I purchased purely for a random "prep" phase I went through during lockdown along with storable food, water filters and flint, etc. It could simply be something they had purchased previously purely out of interest or curiosity.
• Something set this person off the previous day/night. I won't speculate as to what this was or which victim it was, but something happened that drove this individual to kill. It could have been a fight with E, an argument, a disagreement or honestly something so off-hand nobody else noticed but for whatever reason triggered the killer. They could have been on the cusp of something horrendous for a multitude of other reasons, but events on this day pushed him over the edge.
• I don't believe the killer was in the house prior to the arrival of the victims, but I can imagine that after the above "triggering event" happened, they went home, got the knife and changed clothing, and walked (or drove close by, not to the house but somewhere like near the Field) and perched themselves up behind the house, giving them the ability to see directly inside the second and third floor. Remember the rear of the house would be shrouded in darkness, and any light inside the home would allow anyone viewing from that angle to see all movement on those two floors.
• This person watched from this spot absolutely amped up, adrenaline pumping knowing what he was about to do. He was there from at least from the time X and E got home with a mere 10 minute gap from K and M returning as well. They would have watched any commotion happening inside, perhaps X, E, K AND M were congregating in the kitchen/2nd floor together, thus giving the impression they needed to only worry about those 4. The victims drunken state gave him further confidence he'd pull this off.
• After watching the 4 head to their rooms with lights being flicked on and off (bedrooms, bathrooms), he waited another 30 minuter to an hour in the still of the night.
• Confident everyone was asleep, he snuck into the second floor through the sliding door.
• I have gone back and forwards with the order of attack, but I believe it could be any of the victims on the 2nd floor OR the 3rd. I think that whichever room was entered first, the resulting attack alerted the other room. In the absolute frenzy the killer would have worked himself up in, any noise or movement coming from another area of the house would have caused him to "finish the job" so to speak. I lean more heavily to the idea he got K and M first, and the frenzy alerted E who simply may have opened his door/called out to the room above, drawing the killer down stairs.

Sorry for the long post - i've had a long time to stew on it.