ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[drmrgrl]

If one of the victims was killed more intensely than the rest such as more or deeper stab wounds, etc.

IMO, or a ghastly note or perhaps Greek symbol.

 

[CrownCowboy1]

We have no idea. I think it was a typo in DM's first article that placed EC "on the floor" as the entire paragraph appeared to be lifted from an article where it said "EC was on the second floor."

That may be the source of a persistent rumor that he was "on the floor." We now know that the "unconscious person" that the 911 called mentioned was made by one of the survivors and that they were referring to a victim who is a woman. That was in the news all day yesterday. I figure that none of the surviving roommates knew initially that Ethan was there, but called Ethan's phone when Xana didn't answer hers and found out that E didn't answer either, so they called E's brother and he said "They're not here either!" Must have been a terrible moment.

Coroner also mentioned X as having defensive wounds and said "some of the victims had defensive wounds," so we don't even know who the others (if any) might have been.

I figure the details are stuff they want the killer not to hear, so as not to refresh his mind about that night and to be able to show him pictures and take him by surprise when they bring him in. And I hope there's a big ole fat footprint right in the room if X and E were killed second.

OTOH, the amount of possible "blood mitigation" this murderer may have done (killing with mattresses and bedding all around; apparently not slashing arteries in the neck, etc), maybe we have a killer who is very careful about where he puts his feet.

One thing is pretty evident to me at least: LE has undoubtedly withheld a boat load of information. The Killer's movement's in that house is a pretty important aspect in this investigation. Blood evidence (ie the location of blood) and the state and location of the victim's bodies can give you clues to an array of other aspects of the investigation obviously.

These are things only the killer would know and that's the main reason they probably don't want anyone else to know.

I only bring up the above, obvious point because I do think there is a good chance that other pieces of important evidence is being withheld. I just can't believe that this killer didn't leave anything else behind considering the few descriptions we have of the scene. A footprint as you suggest, a fingerprint, blood etc.

As time continues to pass, I'd think eventually LE will be compelled to release more of what they have. As we've seen in many other cases, something small or seemingly obscure can lead to a break in the case.

With that said I think that this wasn't a random attack. The killer definitely knew the area and even layout of the house in my opinion. At first I thought it to be a local that was made aware of the victims from afar. Now, as in many cases, my opinion has shifted to someone close to the group but seemingly one that would be the least to suspect.

Time will tell.

 

[jumpingjackflash]

Here's my big question K planned to graduate early and moved out in October. Where was she living while she finished her last semester? In Texas? Taking online classes?
Finished all her credits early?
At home with her parents? Staying with friends or with her ex?
I have not seen these questions answered in MSM but curious about who she lived with and met those past months. Could she have attracted a stalker? What about Austin? Where was she planning to live? and did she meet an unsavory character down in Texas? or at her new job?

Just an observation and not sure how relevant it is to this case, but COVID-19 caused massive disruptions to educational norms and ushered in an era of unprecedented, shall we say, flexibility with respect to both attendance and academic standards. I work at an Ivy League university and have observed that it's very common now for high-achieving students to leave campus for extended periods during the semester. Many courses are built to accommodate hybrid if not fully remote learning. It's possible K was moving around quite a bit during the semester, with attention split between wrapping up her studies and the next chapter that awaited.

 

[Nosurprise]

SPECULATION, THEORIES AHEAD. JMO.

Yes. First of all, I've lived on college campuses for a total of about 20 years, and worked on them for a total of about 40 years. Large and small colleges/universities, public and private.

LONG POST incoming - but I've synthesized so much of what many of you have been writing over the past couple of days - you'll see that I"m using many of the hypotheses here, which kind of clicked together Lego-style for me, with this story.
----
It's always the case that there are longterm hangers-on, who pretend to be students, on every college campus. It's particularly common right now, IMO.

Heck, some of the scariest moments of teaching have to do with some individual being in class and they aren't students!

It's actually difficult to detect in larger lecture classes. Each time it's happened to me, there's been some specific behavior that this person is exhibiting that made me worry/wonder about them and I'd have to do things to get their names (and sometimes, they'd disappear before or immediately after my "investigation" - whereas no other students even notice that I did a pop quiz and then walked around and specifically collected the papers by hand.

At larger schools (U of Id is definitely not tiny), these students can blend in and hang on for years.

I believe that the Elantra belongs to a relative of one of these people.

It was never registered properly for campus use. The person lives in on-campus housing (likely a Greek house, as all the principals in this case were associated with a Greek house), and may be seen as an Elder Brother and as we know, the brothers at the house are not going to turn such a person into housing authorities. Food is no problem for them, in this situation. Some have girlfriends in the house if it's co-ed housing, so they kind of share those rooms off the record. We do not have fraternities on campus where I work right now, but we have them off-campus and I have my students do papers on their residences using social mapping techniques and so I know that every fraternity has at least 1-2 of these people, which seems normal to the members and which they regard as a kind of assistance if they can't launch themselves after graduation.

Thing is, some of these people linger for years and never graduate. Students come and go and may not realize this, but staff at the universities, including police, usually know of them. It's an area like underage drinking or noise complaints - no real push to put a stop to it. Unless the person does something really bad.

There's been an increase in such students at many colleges. It's a form of homelessness or being indigent, but the people who meet these men do not realize it, as they dress and act like students. They are unable to move on from college life, they won't move on, they are often regarded as BMOC (Big Men On Campus). BTW, I know of no women in this category except a couple of girlfriends who lived irregularly with their boyfriends - but they were students). I know about them most when I investigate cheating - it's often one of these students who has been collecting copies of exams (mostly given online these days) and is selling them/distributing them with answers to their housemates.

Anyway, such students are often trouble. So that was one of my first thoughts.

They are well versed at avoiding and defying authority, was my second thought. They are jealous and suspicious of real students, but hide it fairly well. Nearly every physical fight I've witnessed or been involved in recording/adjudicating involved one of these non-students. They usually claim they are about to enroll again, or they enroll every 3-4 semesters, constantly fail to complete. BTW, the federal government has put into place modest nation-wide measures to try and prevent these characters from continuing to get student loans AND to force repayment under some circumstances - if they can find them. Some of these non-students actually run large scams involving stealing identity and registering under different names at various other colleges than the one they are living at - thereby occasionally grabbing some money from an online university or college. At my college, we now have about 5 current restraining orders against such men because their behaviors ended up with criminal prosecution and they violated a local order not to come on campus. One of them has been sent to another state for his parole, because he won't stop coming on campus. He has come on campus armed.

This person I am describing cannot destroy the Elantra because their relative (or other person from whom they borrowed) would notice and might just be the type to put 2 and 2 together. These students cannot go home because their families have had it with their behavior (they steal from their families - and sometimes even brag about it). They steal from their dorm mates and house mates, too. They steal from the library too.

I believe this person is University related because LE has mostly received tips from and interviewed people from the University.

I'll bet professors have been interviewed, but also students from every single house/dorm associated with the victims and their social life. So not just Sigma Chi but also SAE, the two Pi houses (sororities) and any other place where they had friends or acquaintances.

Patterns have emerged. The type of individual I'm talking about will certainly have been mentioned by more than one person and LE surely will have asked, point blank, whether other students know of any such person - an older person pretending to be a student and perhaps using tactics of intimidation will be mentioned, and if several people mention the same guy, he's gotta be a POI.

I think one of these men has been associated with the Elantra by video or by testimony. The police also see the Elantra near the house on the night of the murders. Elantra is back out of town and at the house of the relative (who has likely been talked to, because I think they tracked it down).

The murderer - and perhaps an accomplice or unwitting tag-along on that night - went to that relative's house to return the car, clean up, and stay for Thanksgiving. Caught a ride with someone to come back, to be close to the crime scene and, as several here have suggested, see whether his own views of what LE is going to do are actually coming to pass. The car would still contain DNA from the victims.

This profile is based on whatever cases I could find that are remotely similar, and on other university murders that I know about. This person *could* have a part time job with the university in some capacity, may involve night work. This person uses university facilities as if they are entitled to them, but will have no transcripted credit-bearing classes for the past year or two (they may occasionally enroll, but fail to finish or the transcript will record a withdrawal or a fail). They may be lying to their families about still being in college (IME, this type of person is really volatile, scared and often suicidal - and to me, a suicidal student is always one that's capable of harming others as well, because they are constantly contemplating the great tabu against killing humans - they've decided that some humans deserve death, and they have both suicidal and homicidal fantasies). That's why when committing heinous crimes, they have no fear in the moment of being caught. Afterwards, they may find that being homicidal suits them better psychologically than being suicidal - which is another reason they are so scary.

As an aside, when I learned through MSM that there were animal mutilations in 2017 (associated with university life, let's just say - and the victims of the carcass dumpings were targeted), I realized that would make this person about 3-4 years older than our victims, if they started this behavior a couple of years after arriving.

Now, my whole story could be wrong - but LE has a similar story about someone, right now. I'm convinced of it. They know that this same person whose name has been coming up has some kind of run-ins with law, maybe back in high school. They have warned and talked to his family. He's feeling increasingly cornered, but they know where he is. It's essential that the extra FBI agents go to the homes of vacationing students to talk to every person who knows this person (or persons, if there are more than one).

This person is acquainted with every person who was killed. He lives nearby. He fits all the psychological criteria that people here on WS keep mentioning (jealous, rejected, fantasizer, angry and perhaps fearful) Scared humans who are about to be caught for something are dangerous. And it's more than just being turned in to university authorities for leaving without permission on campus. This person is likely also a petty drug dealer (as others here have hypothesized). So it all clicked for me. He would have been in the house before, but is not a boyfriend or an ex. Women on campus have had negative encounters with him already. He has likely approached at least one of the women romantically and was rebuffed (21 year old women often think a 24-25 year guy is a bit too old). He likely tries to hit on the 18-19 year olds, though. If he's around for so many years, he gets to watch the women he wanted to date move on to other men. This is highly displeasing to him.

If I am at all close, then this murderer knows that he's in the cross-hairs, although he may believe he's one of a handful and has almost certainly started rumors/stories to implicate others, or when interrogated, he implicated others. It's a dangerous time in the investigation because if that Elantra has been located, the instant LE moves in with a search warrant, the gig is up and this killer will know he's going down. If the owner of the Elantra cooperates, though, it can all be done without him finding out, at least not immediately.

As for the "context" quest by LE, I feel it fits with this theory. If this guy is who I think it is, there's definitely context - and from that night and from that weekend. His housemates are probably used to him coming and going at all hours, borrowing various cars, etc, but something still was amiss/relevant that happened on Nov 12 and if no one saw him on Nov 13, that needs to be established. I figure he told at least a few people he was "going home" for Thanksgiving, so no one would have thought much about it, and he very well did arrive at some relative's house on the 13th - and stay for Thanksgiving.

Weakest part of my theory is any good hypothesis about where this guy is right now. Could be on the run. Could be back at school (my guess, as this guy knows nothing else and can't function outside the life he's made at university). Could be at home with family. Could be staying with friends' family. LE surely are at the point where they either know exactly where he is (my guess) or are about to locate him,

I've read every post on this thread and the last one - and I appreciate the opportunity to write all of this out, using so much of what you all have been saying.

This is very, very interesting. Have you sent in a tip with your theory as you have had experience in your own college? I wonder if this person was at the bar that evening? Thank you.

 

[x_files]

Just an observation and not sure how relevant it is to this case, but COVID-19 caused massive disruptions to educational norms and ushered in an era of unprecedented, shall we say, flexibility with respect to both attendance and academic standards. I work at an Ivy League university and have observed that it's very common now for high-achieving students to leave campus for extended periods during the semester. Many courses are built to accommodate hybrid if not fully remote learning. It's possible K was moving around quite a bit during the semester, with attention split between wrapping up her studies and the next chapter that awaited.

ok, that explains her being able to travel, and move away during her semester, but where was she living since she recently just moved out?
Or was she PLANNING to move out in December?

 

[DizzyB]

IMO it’s not a common thing. Never seen this or heard of this on campus with the exception of those who still hangout at parties and football tailgates. That’s not the same as attending classes and immersing yourself as a student. And you absolutely CANNOT live in a Greek house unless you are an ACTIVE member of that chapter. To be an active member you must submit enrollment verifications and maintain a certain GPA, both of which are monitored by the IFC (Greek council) at the school. It’s not left up to the individual frat/sorority where they could let a “buddy” slide. There are also strict rules in place that forbid these houses being coed. Doesn’t mean a GF/BF won’t break the rules and sleep over, but it’s not as portrayed in the other post you’re responding to. This is a nationwide standard for the Greek system as a whole (NPHC/IFC, etc) and not up to individual schools or chapters. I say this as a recent college grad and Greek alum/chair.

In the instance that I know, the male resided in an off campus frat house. The frat houses on campus grounds only had the official parties, following all of the rules. Off campus frat houses were where the big bashes were held, with backyards full of kids partying before games, and in the crowded basements at night.

 

[Palinsmom]

I have the add in, I agree with you as to there being some type of previous crime. I wasn’t overly clear in my post, but I think it was his first crime of this nature (violence - sexual or otherwise). I think he would have committed other type crimes that I will label petty (dealing or similar

I've been thinking about three films lately. Spoilers ahead for these 20+ year-old movies. Mock me if you wish for my reductive views of these movie themes!
I Know What You Did Last Summer: When you've got a bunch of people complicit in a crime, some will start dying or squealing, but none will never be free of what they did.
Heathers: (applicable here) Sometimes the girls that seem super popular aren't generally as popular as you might think.
To Die For: In the spring thaw, just beneath the ice, things will come to light.

I’m super old. When I started following this and seeing body cam footage etc the movie I was thinking about??? Animal House !! Now that’s old!

 

[RoadRageKills]

Apparently 1122 King Road is officially finished as a crime scene being investigated: Chief Fry says cleaning crews will go in tomorrow:

He seems really relaxed. I also seemed like he was almost smiling at a few points. Could they be trying to finish going through the tips and be almost ready to make an arrest? I trying hope so. Maybe that's why I'm seeing it that way.. JMO

 

[x_files]

SPECULATION, THEORIES AHEAD. JMO.

Yes. First of all, I've lived on college campuses for a total of about 20 years, and worked on them for a total of about 40 years. Large and small colleges/universities, public and private.

LONG POST incoming - but I've synthesized so much of what many of you have been writing over the past couple of days - you'll see that I"m using many of the hypotheses here, which kind of clicked together Lego-style for me, with this story.
----
It's always the case that there are longterm hangers-on, who pretend to be students, on every college campus. It's particularly common right now, IMO.

Heck, some of the scariest moments of teaching have to do with some individual being in class and they aren't students!

It's actually difficult to detect in larger lecture classes. Each time it's happened to me, there's been some specific behavior that this person is exhibiting that made me worry/wonder about them and I'd have to do things to get their names (and sometimes, they'd disappear before or immediately after my "investigation" - whereas no other students even notice that I did a pop quiz and then walked around and specifically collected the papers by hand.

At larger schools (U of Id is definitely not tiny), these students can blend in and hang on for years.

I believe that the Elantra belongs to a relative of one of these people.

It was never registered properly for campus use. The person lives in on-campus housing (likely a Greek house, as all the principals in this case were associated with a Greek house), and may be seen as an Elder Brother and as we know, the brothers at the house are not going to turn such a person into housing authorities. Food is no problem for them, in this situation. Some have girlfriends in the house if it's co-ed housing, so they kind of share those rooms off the record. We do not have fraternities on campus where I work right now, but we have them off-campus and I have my students do papers on their residences using social mapping techniques and so I know that every fraternity has at least 1-2 of these people, which seems normal to the members and which they regard as a kind of assistance if they can't launch themselves after graduation.

Thing is, some of these people linger for years and never graduate. Students come and go and may not realize this, but staff at the universities, including police, usually know of them. It's an area like underage drinking or noise complaints - no real push to put a stop to it. Unless the person does something really bad.

There's been an increase in such students at many colleges. It's a form of homelessness or being indigent, but the people who meet these men do not realize it, as they dress and act like students. They are unable to move on from college life, they won't move on, they are often regarded as BMOC (Big Men On Campus). BTW, I know of no women in this category except a couple of girlfriends who lived irregularly with their boyfriends - but they were students). I know about them most when I investigate cheating - it's often one of these students who has been collecting copies of exams (mostly given online these days) and is selling them/distributing them with answers to their housemates.

Anyway, such students are often trouble. So that was one of my first thoughts.

They are well versed at avoiding and defying authority, was my second thought. They are jealous and suspicious of real students, but hide it fairly well. Nearly every physical fight I've witnessed or been involved in recording/adjudicating involved one of these non-students. They usually claim they are about to enroll again, or they enroll every 3-4 semesters, constantly fail to complete. BTW, the federal government has put into place modest nation-wide measures to try and prevent these characters from continuing to get student loans AND to force repayment under some circumstances - if they can find them. Some of these non-students actually run large scams involving stealing identity and registering under different names at various other colleges than the one they are living at - thereby occasionally grabbing some money from an online university or college. At my college, we now have about 5 current restraining orders against such men because their behaviors ended up with criminal prosecution and they violated a local order not to come on campus. One of them has been sent to another state for his parole, because he won't stop coming on campus. He has come on campus armed.

This person I am describing cannot destroy the Elantra because their relative (or other person from whom they borrowed) would notice and might just be the type to put 2 and 2 together. These students cannot go home because their families have had it with their behavior (they steal from their families - and sometimes even brag about it). They steal from their dorm mates and house mates, too. They steal from the library too.

I believe this person is University related because LE has mostly received tips from and interviewed people from the University.

I'll bet professors have been interviewed, but also students from every single house/dorm associated with the victims and their social life. So not just Sigma Chi but also SAE, the two Pi houses (sororities) and any other place where they had friends or acquaintances.

Patterns have emerged. The type of individual I'm talking about will certainly have been mentioned by more than one person and LE surely will have asked, point blank, whether other students know of any such person - an older person pretending to be a student and perhaps using tactics of intimidation will be mentioned, and if several people mention the same guy, he's gotta be a POI.

I think one of these men has been associated with the Elantra by video or by testimony. The police also see the Elantra near the house on the night of the murders. Elantra is back out of town and at the house of the relative (who has likely been talked to, because I think they tracked it down).

The murderer - and perhaps an accomplice or unwitting tag-along on that night - went to that relative's house to return the car, clean up, and stay for Thanksgiving. Caught a ride with someone to come back, to be close to the crime scene and, as several here have suggested, see whether his own views of what LE is going to do are actually coming to pass. The car would still contain DNA from the victims.

This profile is based on whatever cases I could find that are remotely similar, and on other university murders that I know about. This person *could* have a part time job with the university in some capacity, may involve night work. This person uses university facilities as if they are entitled to them, but will have no transcripted credit-bearing classes for the past year or two (they may occasionally enroll, but fail to finish or the transcript will record a withdrawal or a fail). They may be lying to their families about still being in college (IME, this type of person is really volatile, scared and often suicidal - and to me, a suicidal student is always one that's capable of harming others as well, because they are constantly contemplating the great tabu against killing humans - they've decided that some humans deserve death, and they have both suicidal and homicidal fantasies). That's why when committing heinous crimes, they have no fear in the moment of being caught. Afterwards, they may find that being homicidal suits them better psychologically than being suicidal - which is another reason they are so scary.

As an aside, when I learned through MSM that there were animal mutilations in 2017 (associated with university life, let's just say - and the victims of the carcass dumpings were targeted), I realized that would make this person about 3-4 years older than our victims, if they started this behavior a couple of years after arriving.

Now, my whole story could be wrong - but LE has a similar story about someone, right now. I'm convinced of it. They know that this same person whose name has been coming up has some kind of run-ins with law, maybe back in high school. They have warned and talked to his family. He's feeling increasingly cornered, but they know where he is. It's essential that the extra FBI agents go to the homes of vacationing students to talk to every person who knows this person (or persons, if there are more than one).

This person is acquainted with every person who was killed. He lives nearby. He fits all the psychological criteria that people here on WS keep mentioning (jealous, rejected, fantasizer, angry and perhaps fearful) Scared humans who are about to be caught for something are dangerous. And it's more than just being turned in to university authorities for leaving without permission on campus. This person is likely also a petty drug dealer (as others here have hypothesized). So it all clicked for me. He would have been in the house before, but is not a boyfriend or an ex. Women on campus have had negative encounters with him already. He has likely approached at least one of the women romantically and was rebuffed (21 year old women often think a 24-25 year guy is a bit too old). He likely tries to hit on the 18-19 year olds, though. If he's around for so many years, he gets to watch the women he wanted to date move on to other men. This is highly displeasing to him.

If I am at all close, then this murderer knows that he's in the cross-hairs, although he may believe he's one of a handful and has almost certainly started rumors/stories to implicate others, or when interrogated, he implicated others. It's a dangerous time in the investigation because if that Elantra has been located, the instant LE moves in with a search warrant, the gig is up and this killer will know he's going down. If the owner of the Elantra cooperates, though, it can all be done without him finding out, at least not immediately.

As for the "context" quest by LE, I feel it fits with this theory. If this guy is who I think it is, there's definitely context - and from that night and from that weekend. His housemates are probably used to him coming and going at all hours, borrowing various cars, etc, but something still was amiss/relevant that happened on Nov 12 and if no one saw him on Nov 13, that needs to be established. I figure he told at least a few people he was "going home" for Thanksgiving, so no one would have thought much about it, and he very well did arrive at some relative's house on the 13th - and stay for Thanksgiving.

Weakest part of my theory is any good hypothesis about where this guy is right now. Could be on the run. Could be back at school (my guess, as this guy knows nothing else and can't function outside the life he's made at university). Could be at home with family. Could be staying with friends' family. LE surely are at the point where they either know exactly where he is (my guess) or are about to locate him,

I've read every post on this thread and the last one - and I appreciate the opportunity to write all of this out, using so much of what you all have been saying.

Great theory a drug dealer everyone knows but thinks is kinda creepy but no one dares snitch on crossed my mind. Everyone may think he is capable but has ZERO evidence and is too afraid to go to LE/FBI.

 

[10ofRods]

A successful 25-year-old guy with a good career might be attractive to some college women. A 25-year-old guy still hanging out on campus wouldn't attract those same college women. IMO.

EXACTLY - grad student guys are in demand and at around age 21-22, university women begin to change their window of what's "my own age." Not wanting a creeper/older guy (which is an actual category that women students use) begins to diminish after age 22. I always tell the young men to just hang on, once they are 25, that the 22 year olds will want them (as the 22 year old guys are, statistically, going after the 18-19 year olds. This can all be diagrammed and there's academic literature on it. At age 30, a woman is likely to find men aged 25-40 perfectly acceptable. At age 18, if I give a little essay question on "would you date a 25 year old," I get a lot of "Ewww, no way." I could write a book on this topic.

Good careers are indeed attractive. This particular 25 year old not only does NOT have a good career, but he is NOT going to graduate, and he is scamming/conning people to make them think he's in good standing. Including, most of the time, family members. I'm watching one guy who has maxxed out every means of financial aid here in California and has moved to Utah. He has also maxxed out every form of assistance from his parents and siblings. So now, he's in Utah, where he has great aunts and uncles, who are slowly changing their phone numbers and banishing him (he's "attending" college in Utah and I know several of his siblings, who came to me for advice and knowledge about the situation).

This guy knows he will never have a good career, yet he wants to have sexual and romantic relationships. He's also out of step with z-ennials and their romantic/sexual lives (so I think he might even be a bit older than 25). This guy has NOTHING. Nothing to lose.

A guy pretending to be successful, though, falls into a strange category. I'd love to hear the interviews with his former partners.

Great post, thank you. Do you feel this individual has confided in anyone about the crime he committed or do you think he has "friends" that know he did it (one way or another)?

If so to either question will they, or have they gone to the police or will they actually have to be sought out by LE and strongly interrogated and fold under questioning?

Truthfully, I hadn't considered it until your post. I think someone knows, besides the murderer. If the gas station camera is relevant, there were 2 people in the Elantra - but that's not exactly a convincing clue.

I believe this person has been interviewed by police and was interviewed early on, because his name came up in a couple of contexts. But, I doubt the person is available for further questioning now that the police have more to ask of any person they interview.

I think there are several people who strongly suspect him, including some who might demolish his alibi. Personally, I don't think he cares much about alibis - he's smart enough to realize that hard evidence is necessary to bring him in. I'm sure he personally took charge of cleaning the Elantra (but likely has no clue that DNA persists the way that it does). I do believe was in the Elantra and that LE was not just seeking it for a talk.

My big ??? moment right now is whether LE has allowed this person to know that they know about the Elantra.

Wasn't Kaylee posting on that last evening?

I think this perpetrator uses social media to research targets

AIMOO

Not that I know of. Not at all. Her last post is from the day before, IIRC.

 

[PrairieWind]

When all the dust settles and there's a conviction....

I hope the house is destroyed and a small picturesque memorial park is built, maybe with some memorial sitting benches or a tribute garden, or maybe some trees planted.

I doubt that happens. The city would have buy the property from the current owner and I suspect the owners may not be interested in selling. It comes down to dollars. That 6 bedroom house generates good income. I can't imagine the owners would want to just throw that away.

 

[10ofRods]

Compared to previous updates, did the Chief look more “relieved” today?

Yes!

 

[Mad Hettie]

Here is a story from 2016 of a former student (2013 graduate), still living in his former college town who broke into his ex girlfirend/new boyfriends home in the middle of the night and killed them with a knife. He also killed himself.

This seems to be the type of "college hanger-on" person being discussed.
Obviously the suicide makes this case different - but maybe something can be learned from it.

Police: Break-up was motive in Geneseo double murder-suicide

Geneseo, N.Y. - Geneseo Police said the deaths of three people in Geneseowere related to a break-up between two of the three victims.All three were found dead early Sunday morning in an upstairs bedroom of a house on Wadsworth Street.The victims were late

13wham.com

Another thing of note here is that it was murder by stabbing, with other people present in the house (in a house split into two apartments), it occurred early in the morning, and NO ONE HEARD ANYTHING. It might be within the realm of possibilities to have slept through such a thing or, if one awoke, to make up a story and go back to sleep.

 

[x_files]

Yet on her last instagram post (photo of the five roommates together), she states: "one lucky girl to be surrounded by these ppl everyday" (posted on November 12)... what did she mean?

Sounds like she enjoyed her roommates. But if she moved out already and only returned to visit a little odd.

 

[10ofRods]

ok, that explains her being able to travel, and move away during her semester, but where was she living since she recently just moved out?
Or was she PLANNING to move out in December?

She went home to her parents' house, they said. 1.5 weeks before her death. Broke up with longterm BF 3 weeks before her death.

 

[x_files]

Wasn't Kaylee posting on that last evening?

I think this perpetrator uses social media to research targets

AIMOO

Most young people post everything on Instagram. Nothing wrong with using sm but unfortunately bad people with nefarious ideas can use it to glean info.

 

[x_files]

She went home to her parents' house, they said. 1.5 weeks before her death. Broke up with longterm BF 3 weeks before her death.

ok, the missing time... Thanks! I looked and couldn't find that info.

 

[x_files]

We have no idea. I think it was a typo in DM's first article that placed EC "on the floor" as the entire paragraph appeared to be lifted from an article where it said "EC was on the second floor."

That may be the source of a persistent rumor that he was "on the floor." We now know that the "unconscious person" that the 911 called mentioned was made by one of the survivors and that they were referring to a victim who is a woman. That was in the news all day yesterday. I figure that none of the surviving roommates knew initially that Ethan was there, but called Ethan's phone when Xana didn't answer hers and found out that E didn't answer either, so they called E's brother and he said "They're not here either!" Must have been a terrible moment.

Coroner also mentioned X as having defensive wounds and said "some of the victims had defensive wounds," so we don't even know who the others (if any) might have been.

I figure the details are stuff they want the killer not to hear, so as not to refresh his mind about that night and to be able to show him pictures and take him by surprise when they bring him in. And I hope there's a big ole fat footprint right in the room if X and E were killed second.

OTOH, the amount of possible "blood mitigation" this murderer may have done (killing with mattresses and bedding all around; apparently not slashing arteries in the neck, etc), maybe we have a killer who is very careful about where he puts his feet.



That's not exactly true. At one point he was very much on their radar. IMO. Then someone lost his file.



If she had enough units to graduate before she ever started the semester, then IMO she would have received her degree and been listed on the list of December graduates - but she isn't.

If she had originally enrolled in all online classes (in order to complete some units - her major had capstone courses that had to be done for the degree), then why sign a sub-lease for 1122 King? Or was she just sort of paying rent and had nothing more than a month-to-month agreement?

One cannot "finish credits early" in a single semester, as registrars are required to put the final grade posting up at a certain time, during finals week (usually). It's an accreditation standard to keep unscrupulous instructors and students from handing out units at any point in the semester that they deem important - but the hours *must* be completed over a longer period, or else it's considered a correspondence course and those units cannot be transferred to most school. Fully online and Hybrid courses must follow all the rules for regular courses (regular meetings, X hours per week, final exam given, units awarded; X amount of time must pass - as short as 4 weeks, but I so far have found no 4 week classes at U of I except for "intersession" units).

I would guess that K was making new friends and contacts and that she had made friends, perhaps even met a new romantic interest,.in Texas. Perhaps that relationship required that she break up with her former boyfriend and after that, she felt she wanted to go ahead to Texas, earlier than planned. It's still possible she was taking fully online courses, though. Perhaps she got special permission to do the capstone course online as well.

I do not think any of her new friends in Austin are responsible for this, whatsoever. I do not think an unsavory character from Texas figured out where she was living (new place) and came into town to stalk and kill her and ended up killing most of her housemates.

Thanks for the info about credits/units.

Until we learn more I do think there's a possibility of a local Moscow stalker that found out she was indeed moving to Austin, TX, and wouldn't be around anymore to stalk.
Jealousy? rage?
I wish we knew more about the connections she made in Texas. Have they been cleared yet?

 

[10ofRods]

In the instance that I know, the male resided in an off campus frat house. The frat houses on campus grounds only had the official parties, following all of the rules. Off campus frat houses were where the big bashes were held, with backyards full of kids partying before games, and in the crowded basements at night.

And in this way, a fraternity can stay within the rules and have only official members as residents assigned to rooms.

In real life the fraternity also has resources available nearby, off-campus OR has unofficial rooms that are used as spaces for the non-members who are still regarded as brothers. In one case with which I am very familiar, the university ruled that the basement of the fraternity could be used only for utilities and laundry area.

In fact, students lived here in a series of spaces that were supposed to be storage areas or utility rooms. One of the people had been out of undergrad for 6 years (he DID graduate and did so with a fine GPA, so had been an honorable member of the house). He was still living there (although he traveled some). Another of the rooms was occupied by a former member who was no longer enrolled in university but was getting checks from his parents, and so could afford to pay the fraternity a nice sum for one of the basement rooms. The money went into the "beer fund."

The National even made surprise visits, but everyone in the house knew what to do, and the National people never even inspected the basement - just glanced down into the gloom and the laundry area and went back to inquiring why there were women's things in some of the unlocked and open door rooms. The fraternity received a sternly worded letter advising them that women should not be staying over or showering at the house. Ha.

Some of the more "elderly" (no longer student) residents had choice rooms (former cloak room, some closets) that they knew to keep locked. One of them would have looked just like a library with a futon in it, had the National inspector asked to see it.

IOW, there were students living in closets, former cloak rooms, pantries, freezer rooms, utility rooms, etc. Most paid a little rent - but it was under the table. Some were women.

 

[Nosurprise]

And in this way, a fraternity can stay within the rules and have only official members as residents assigned to rooms.

In real life the fraternity also has resources available nearby, off-campus OR has unofficial rooms that are used as spaces for the non-members who are still regarded as brothers. In one case with which I very familiar, the university ruled that the basement of the fraternity could be used only for utilities and laundry area. In fact, students lived here in a series of spaces that were supposed to be storage areas or utility rooms. One of the people had been out of undergrad for 6 years (he DID graduate and did so with a fine GPA, so had been an honorable member of the house). He was still living there (although he traveled some). Another of the rooms was occupied by a former member who was no longer enrolled in university but was getting checks from his parents, and so could afford to pay the fraternity a nice sum for one of the basement rooms. The money went into the "beer fund."

The National even made surprise visits, but everyone in the house knew what to do, and the National people never even inspected the basement - just glanced down into the gloom and the laundry area and went back to inquiring why there were women's things in some of the unlocked and open door rooms. The fraternity received a sternly worded letter advising them that women should not be staying over or showering at the house. Ha.

You just answered my next question before I posted it.
Wouldn't the car been very bloody though. I guess If he took the clothes off first. ?