ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[Hoosgirl]

I have a great K9 story, from a friend of mine who is a K9 officer. 3 year old went missing from his back yard in a rural area. The search was focused on the woods in back of the house, which were extensive. The parents insisted he would NEVER cross the road in front of their house.

My friend joined the search and the officer in charge of the search wanted him to take his K9 into the woods, but the dog kept wanting to go to the road. My friend had to actually argue a bit with the officer in charge to try the road instead of the woods, but finally succeeded. The dog led him over a mile down the road ... where he found the little one, luckily unharmed at that point (a little over 5 hours since last seen). I think it is amazing what the dogs can do. And a reminder that no matter what a small child has never done previously, you never know when they might decide to do it!

 

[MzOpinion8d]

If he wandered off, I think he'll be found in water.

If he didn't, I think he'll be found within a 1/2 hour walking radius of the campsite.

One big question I have is, why is the dad so insistent the sighting at the convenience store was when he took the child in there? If he was indeed abducted, it's possible whoever took him went in the store with him as well. If there was a different person on duty, they wouldn't have known the child had been there earlier, and maybe the police don't even realize it was two separate incidents?

 

[Snoopster]

if my child went missing at a campsite and there was one bar showing for cell reception I would take advantage of that. I wouldn't assume that it wouldn't work. I wouldn't drive off ...away from the site where my child was last seen...hoping for 3 bars of reception. Of course, that's just what I imagine I might do. I've never lost a young child. I definitely assume that panic would insinuate itself into my thoughts and actions and I would not necessarily behave rationally.

 

[TeganJeff]

if my child went missing at a campsite and there was one bar showing for cell reception I would take advantage of that. I wouldn't assume that it wouldn't work. I wouldn't drive off ...away from the site where my child was last seen...hoping for 3 bars of reception. Of course, that's just what I imagine I might do. I've never lost a young child. I definitely assume that panic would insinuate itself into my thoughts and actions and I would not necessarily behave rationally.

At the same time, he knew his wife was calling and stated that he was afraid that her phone might cut out. I think in that sense, it was a good decision.


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[renarde]

If the convenience store is the Stage Stop in Leadore, I can't imagine they'd see a lot of people anyway. The population of Leadore is about 100. I'm wondering how much traffic the store gets, what their hours are, and how many people work there.

I am also thinking the creek. It looked so dangerously close to the campsite. DeOrr seems like he is so tiny... and the creek banks seemed so steep.

If he wandered off, I think he'll be found in water.

If he didn't, I think he'll be found within a 1/2 hour walking radius of the campsite.

One big question I have is, why is the dad so insistent the sighting at the convenience store was when he took the child in there? If he was indeed abducted, it's possible whoever took him went in the store with him as well. If there was a different person on duty, they wouldn't have known the child had been there earlier, and maybe the police don't even realize it was two separate incidents?

 

[white rabbit]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

"If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.

"They weren't up there very long when this all happened, and what they came down with is that it was 4 minutes that someone wasn't watching him," Kune said.

 

[Snoopster]

At the same time, he knew his wife was calling and stated that he was afraid that her phone might cut out. I think in that sense, it was a good decision.


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Even if her phone cut out, wouldn't they have sent emergency service to that location? I'm still not sure I could have torn myself away from the site...but then i've been fortunate to have never "lost" anyone.

 

[Elainera]

How close to 3 years old is this toddler? When my son was 3 years old, one mintue he was playing in the back yard, next minute he walked a few doors down, stole a tricycle and went on a 1/2 mile adventure. He was fine when I found him an hour later playing with some kids in their front yard. It happens... toddlers cannot be left out of your sight for even seconds.

I think this little one ventured down to the creek, drowned and was possibly dragged away by an animal... yes within minutes these things can happen. My heart breaks for this family, I can't imagine how they are holding up.

bbm - His third birthday will be on Dec 30.

 

[renarde]

He can't walk on level ground without falling?

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

"If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.

"They weren't up there very long when this all happened, and what they came down with is that it was 4 minutes that someone wasn't watching him," Kune said.

 

[Elainera]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

"If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.

"They weren't up there very long when this all happened, and what they came down with is that it was 4 minutes that someone wasn't watching him," Kune said.

What does that mean? He can't walk? He falls a lot?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I am assuming the closest store to their campsite would be in Leadore which is a 40 min. drive via forest rd 172/105. Can anyone confirm this?

If they hadn't left the campsite since 1 (according to dad during interview) does that mean they got back by 1 and never left again or does that mean they left to go to the store at 1?

According to my map the distance from the campsite to the reservoir on foot is 0.2 miles and 5 minutes. It appears to be a straight shot up the creek that runs along the campsite. In the video showing the campsite/creek, the direction the guy said the parents went to explore leads to the reservoir.


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Interesting!

JMO...

 

[jmcgladr]

What does that mean? He can't walk? He falls a lot?

I noticed that too - that does not seem developmentally typical for a 2 1/2 year old. Either Grandpa is exaggerating or DeOrr may have some large motor issues.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Question: is the campsite on a mountain? I'm confused about the quote "he's not up on the mountain anymore".

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I'm probably wrong, but does anyone know of a case where a dog actually led LE to a missing person, living or dead? Off hand I can't think of one, and if I recall correctly, they didn't do very well with the recent escapees from upstate New York. Believe me, I want to be wrong so someone please show me a case or two.

http://www.kcby.com/news/local/Miss...-returned-home-safely-277489531.html?mobile=y

http://www.sltrib.com/news/1915469-155/utah-police-dog-finds-missing-boy

http://www.kptv.com/story/25426393/k9-finds-missing-autistic-boy-standing-in-creek

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/se...es-new-k9-finds-missing-boy-in-woods/30351290

They find a great many missing people, but they are not 100%.



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[Elainera]

"Search-and-rescue crews have still not found a trace of the missing child, which is leading family members to stick by their initial thought of an abduction.

snipped

"If a man was going to do it standing on the north side of that creek where the pine trees are, and the little boy on the other side of the creek. The creek is only about 4 feet wide it's not very big. They could have closed in on him. muffled his voice, muffled his mouth, and headed into the trees and he'd never be seen," he (DeOrr Kunz) said."

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Well, that's weird, IMO. I would definitely NOT be bringing a stranger who was an acquaintance of my grandfather's along on a camping outing with my baby! I would want to vet anyone who was going to be staying overnight in the vicinity of my baby. What if he was a pedophile? Murderer? Not to be paranoid but I think you should only camp with people you know pretty well.

(Sorry, forgot to hit "reply with quote," that was in response to a post a few pages back where someone mentioned NG had said the friend of Grandpa's who came on the camping trip was previously unknown to the family).

Just jumping off your post...

I wonder if the "friend" was actually a care-giver for the g-gpa...

IIRC... It was mentioned up thread that g-gpa was not in robust health...

:waitasec:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Thanks - yes, that one worked. I imagine, from having camped up in the mountains around that area, that the stream and reservoir would be glacial runoff and still very cold, even in July. Therefore, it might take longer for a body to surface. Does anyone know what the approximate temperature in a lake there would be this time of year?

good point regarding the possibility of the creek/reservoir being glacial run-off...

I have heard that falling into water of extreme cold temperatures can cause a shock to the body.... accelerating drowning....

All.... JMO...

 

[Elainera]

If - for whatever reason - Deorr wasn't very steady or very fast on his feet, then I can really only think of abduction or falling into the creek. If he is unsteady on level ground, then the steep slope down to the creek, should he have gone there to explore, would have meant a certain fall. I would then doubt the lion/bear attack theory because for this to happen he would have had to be at least far away enough to be out of sight of g-grandpa and his friend.

I still think the creek is the most likely scenario, and am wondering again how fast the current is.

They say he was unsupervised for about 4 minutes. How soon after they realized he is gone did they search down by the creek?

 

[MyBelle]

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

"If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.

"They weren't up there very long when this all happened, and what they came down with is that it was 4 minutes that someone wasn't watching him," Kune said.

If he had trouble walking on level ground, no way would he have made it down to that creek without falling. Four minutes would be plenty of time to make it to the creek bank.

JMO

 

[jmcgladr]

Just jumping off your post...

I wonder if the "friend" was actually a care-giver for the g-gpa...

IIRC... It was mentioned up thread that g-gpa was not in robust health...

:waitasec:

That might be a good explanation, but wouldn't his grandkids know he's a caregiver and call him that, rather than a "friend?" And wouldn't they have previously met the caregiver? Maybe not, depending on their level of contact, I guess...