ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #28

[Lilibet]

Could someone explain what "the department of corrections" is please.

It is not a term used in the UK, but I'm guessing it has something to do with a correctional facility ?

You're exactly right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_Department_of_Correction

 

[Rayemonde]

You're totally not the only one. First I have heard of a dog is today!

Why has this nugget of information not been discussed ad nauseum in previous threads?!

Because it has never ever been mentioned in MSM until now. <modsnip>

 

[katydid23]

Could someone explain what "the department of corrections" is please.

It is not a term used in the UK, but I'm guessing it has something to do with a correctional facility ?

It is a polite term for PRISON....:jail:

 

[Ekkwhine]

It is a polite term for PRISON....:jail:

Thanks for clearing that up. I'm I'm the UK too and had assumed it was the equivalent of our 'open air'/low security prisons. (which incidentally is always a little nerve racking when it's on the news that someone has absconded or not returned from day release as I live close to one)

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[neesaki]

This seems to be becoming a terrible tragic :coldcase: Please, do what's right, someone. Or do they all have the same mentality, "what's done is done" ?

 

[kammiemc]

I almost hesitate to wade in but I'm bored; as I recall the diaper hung in the tree was put out there "unofficially". In one of his chats I think Klein said no soiled diapers were ever found and the story of 1 being thrown away was a sideshow. It certainly doesn't seem like the kind of thing a distraught grandmother would decide she needed to do on day 1 of a search for her missing grandson. I could be confused as it gets hard to separate some of the details as they come out from various sources and often seem to change.

I agree with the general sentiment that it's a shame the area wasn't secured better, but I understand. I imagine most calls for missing children are actually legitimate and LE takes them at face value, if a toddler is wandering around the woods I certainly wouldn't want LE to spend time securing a crime scene. I assume there is some kind of general handling for cases like this where at least someone watches the main scene while the rest of LE goes about the business of searching.

I love your writing!


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[kammiemc]

Well played! I am a fan of your work on other pages as well.
I certainly wouldn't want to drag a non POI THROUGH the mud, I was just curious if there was actual proof that her poly was inconclusive. My natural inclination of course is to believe a grandmother who has raised such a fine daughter and was on the phone with said daughter numerous times throughout the day Deorr vanished. I am glad she was able to get up to the campsite so very, very quickly and help out her daughter in her time of need.

My gut (and I am not necessarily trusting my gut) says that the GMA is a victim in this whole thing. Beyond that, I couldn't guess what she knows or doesn't know. I wouldn't be shocked by anything. IMO, she has at least been transparent in that she is not so happy with her daughter. (At least she admitted in KIC's video that she prioritized running around with VK over being with her kids.) I do still give gma the benefit of the doubt. My gut did NOT feel the same after seeing the parents' first interview. That interview blew my mind with the red flags.


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[kammiemc]

If it were proven that someone abused him physically and then covered up his death what charges could that lead to? Battery and Obstruction? Negligent Homicide? Is there a lawyer here?


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[neesaki]

If it were proven that someone abused him physically and then covered up his death what charges could that lead to? Battery and Obstruction? Negligent Homicide? Is there a lawyer here?


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I'm not a lawyer, but I have no doubt that any / all of those implications would apply. JMO What happened to our verified attorneys here? Please weigh in. TIA

 

[neesaki]

So we don't forget, little Deorr needs to be found.

[video=youtube;kaZDMMnIv9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaZDMMnIv9E[/video]

 

[The Apparition]

I love your writing!


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Why thank you so much! You add lots of quality also.

You certainly could be correct about GMA, she seems like one of the more normal people involved in our drama. What I don't love is the fact JM allegedly called her multiple times the day in question and she arrived on the scene so quickly (in regards to the 911 call). I hope we will all know the details eventually, and justice will be served.

 

[neesaki]

I have always had reservations as to whether the search for little Deorr was conducted far enough outside the area they expected him to be within. I honestly have no idea, but I will always wonder. From the post from the SAR guy, Jeff Hasse, these are his words concerning that. It's just something to consider. I don't know that it would come into play with little Deorr, considering the potential "criminal" elements with regards to the parents. But it is some additional information.

BTW, the disappearance of Brandon Swanson is really mysterious if anyone here is interested. At the same link.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...19-Marshall-14-May-2008&p=4688694#post4688694

It is amazing how often inexperienced Search Managers fail to consider the former problem. In Lost Person Behavior by Robert Koester, he describes that, in the vast majority of failed searches, Search Managers did not search beyond the median statistical distance. By definition, these searches have a 50:50 chance of failing.

 

[kammiemc]

Why thank you so much! You add lots of quality also.

You certainly could be correct about GMA, she seems like one of the more normal people involved in our drama. What I don't love is the fact JM allegedly called her multiple times the day in question and she arrived on the scene so quickly (in regards to the 911 call). I hope we will all know the details eventually, and justice will be served.

I agree. I can't make that out either. There is a little question mark about what she knows.


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[SubtleGrace]

If it were proven that someone abused him physically and then covered up his death what charges could that lead to? Battery and Obstruction? Negligent Homicide? Is there a lawyer here?


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If someone were abusing him in a manner that brought about death that would be considered aggravated battery. Per Idaho Statutes:

TITLE 18
CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
CHAPTER 40
HOMICIDE
18-4003. DEGREES OF MURDER. (a) All murder which is perpetrated by means of poison, or lying in wait, or torture, when torture is inflicted with the intent to cause suffering, to execute vengeance, to extort something from the victim, or to satisfy some sadistic inclination, or which is perpetrated by any kind of willful, deliberate and premeditated killing is murder of the first degree.
(b) Any murder of any peace officer, executive officer, officer of the court, fireman, judicial officer or prosecuting attorney who was acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty, and was known or should have been known by the perpetrator of the murder to be an officer so acting, shall be murder of the first degree.
(c) Any murder committed by a person under a sentence for murder of the first or second degree, including such persons on parole or probation from such sentence, shall be murder of the first degree.
(d) Any murder committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, aggravated battery on a child under twelve (12) years of age, arson, rape, robbery, burglary, kidnapping or mayhem, or an act of terrorism, as defined in section 18-8102, Idaho Code, or the use of a weapon of mass destruction, biological weapon or chemical weapon, is murder of the first degree.

So, let's pretend that Vernal got mad at baby Deorr and beat him to death in front of Jess, Bob and Issac, who did nothing. They would all be guilty of felony murder.

 

[jessie]

I have always had reservations as to whether the search for little Deorr was conducted far enough outside the area they expected him to be within. I honestly have no idea, but I will always wonder. From the post from the SAR guy, Jeff Hasse, these are his words concerning that. It's just something to consider. I don't know that it would come into play with little Deorr, considering the potential "criminal" elements with regards to the parents. But it is some additional information.

BTW, the disappearance of Brandon Swanson is really mysterious if anyone here is interested. At the same link.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...19-Marshall-14-May-2008&p=4688694#post4688694

neesaki educate me please. What is the "Median statistical distance" that R Koester speaks of?

In the back of my mind is that they start searching 2 km out, then expand to 5 km out, is this what RK refers to?

Also what did the SAR guy Jeff Hasse say? Were those his words in your quote? tia

 

[Hoosier952]

neesaki educate me please. What is the "Median statistical distance" that R Koester speaks of?

In the back of my mind is that they start searching 2 km out, then expand to 5 km out, is this what RK refers to?

Also what did the SAR guy Jeff Hasse say? Were those his words in your quote? tia

Not neesaki, but if I recall from math class, median would mean the middle. So if there were 5 people found at 100 yds, 200 yds, 300 yds, 2400 yds, 3000 yds. The median would be 300 yds, even though it's not the mean/average. So they would set to search out to 300 yds. Rather than the farthest or even the average distance missing persons were found from where they disappeared. Obviously there would be more than 5 numbers to determine figures and with more figures the median would probably far closer to the actual average distance, but it still sets them up for a 50% success rate.

 

[KatieLiz]

My gut (and I am not necessarily trusting my gut) says that the GMA is a victim in this whole thing. Beyond that, I couldn't guess what she knows or doesn't know. I wouldn't be shocked by anything. IMO, she has at least been transparent in that she is not so happy with her daughter. (At least she admitted in KIC's video that she prioritized running around with VK over being with her kids.) I do still give gma the benefit of the doubt. My gut did NOT feel the same after seeing the parents' first interview. That interview blew my mind with the red flags.


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I agree with you... to an extent. I don't think grandma was involved with the initial crime. But I go back and forth as to whether she is an unsuspecting and over-trusting innocent victim... or if she has taken on the role of accessory after the fact and has either figured out the truth or been let in on it. I go back and forth as to whether I think she now knows or is just naive.

 

[KatieLiz]

So we don't forget, little Deorr needs to be found.

[video=youtube;kaZDMMnIv9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaZDMMnIv9E[/video]

Unfortunately I'm beginning to think they hid him well... or worse. I think his remains won't be found until and unless they can get a confession out of one of the 4 main players. I just wish one of them would Crack or slip up with a location name.

 

[Hatfield]

All JMO
ok....I think I may have found something that is quite damning to the parents story. I have been searching back through interviews and things trying to find something and this is something that doesn't jive with what the parents told LE.

Remember how the parents said when they called 911 they had been looking only for about 1/2 hour to maybe an hour at most. Well listen carefully to this interview with grandma and focus on what she is saying about ALL the missed calls she saw on her phone from JM. Then at exactly the 5:40 mark listen very carefully to what we are being told. We are told that the Mom only called 911 AFTER she had spoken to grandma.

Well then, what does this mean?
It means that in order for JM to had made ALL those other calls to grandma's phone that were missed before she finally got ahold of her, then MUCH more time had to have gone by with the boy being missing.
There were a slew of missed calls according to what we are hearing. And notice carefully that when she finally got ahold of her that she could not make out a word that JM was saying.

This is telling because it means the "act" started right there and she was waiting until she got ahold of her mom before they pulled the trigger with the act and calling 911. Because lets put anybody else in their shoes while you are missing your son. There is no way you would wait on getting ahold of someone that may or may not ever answer before you call 911 to get help searching for a missing child. But more importantly there is no way only 1/2 hour or so of searching had gone on before calling 911. There were a slew of missed calls which means she was probably trying to get ahold of her all morning long is my guess. This is where the parents are caught in a definite lie or fib at least.

All JMO of course

http://www.localnews8.com/news/exte...dma-of-missing-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/39482978

 

[seventeenseconds]

All JMO
ok....I think I may have found something that is quite damning to the parents story. I have been searching back through interviews and things trying to find something and this is something that doesn't jive with what the parents told LE.

Remember how the parents said when they called 911 they had been looking only for about 1/2 hour to maybe an hour at most. Well listen carefully to this interview with grandma and focus on what she is saying about ALL the missed calls she saw on her phone from JM. Then at exactly the 5:40 mark listen very carefully to what we are being told. We are told that the Mom only called 911 AFTER she had spoken to grandma.

Well then, what does this mean?
It means that in order for JM to had made ALL those other calls to grandma's phone that were missed before she finally got ahold of her, then MUCH more time had to have gone by with the boy being missing.
There were a slew of missed calls according to what we are hearing. And notice carefully that when she finally got ahold of her that she could not make out a word that JM was saying.

This is telling because it means the "act" started right there and she was waiting until she got ahold of her mom before they pulled the trigger with the act and calling 911. Because lets put anybody else in their shoes while you are missing your son. There is no way you would wait on getting ahold of someone that may or may not ever answer before you call 911 to get help searching for a missing child. But more importantly there is no way only 1/2 hour or so of searching had gone on before calling 911. There were a slew of missed calls which means she was probably trying to get ahold of her all morning long is my guess. This is where the parents are caught in a definite lie or fib at least.

All JMO of course

http://www.localnews8.com/news/exte...dma-of-missing-toddler-deorr-kunz-jr/39482978

Nice catch!!!


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