white rabbit
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2010
- Messages
- 3,078
- Reaction score
- 1,632
:coffeeup:
OT but yes, it was. It's in the Iron Mountain range of NE Minnesota. Beautiful country.
We didn't get any wolves to answer our howls, but we did scare some high school kids that were out partying in the woods nearby. LOL
Not a local quirk IME.I have read every article I can find on this story, but I'm still not clear on a few things. I'm hoping someone here knows the answers. (Quoting articles given on page 1 of the thread.)
1. Where exactly was Deorr and what was he doing when he was last seen by his parents, ggf and ggf's friend? Specifically, was he sitting down, lying down with his blanket, in the tent, on the ground, playing with a toy, eating a snack, etc?
2. I read in a few articles that the parents thought Deorr was staying with his ggf and the ggf thought he was with the parents. In an interview with ggf's daughter (Deorr's grandmother), she says My dad was standing there watching him and he turned his head and then (Deorr) was gone. http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/grandma-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/
The parents said in their interview "He`s a -- he`s a goer and a mover, but he`s not -- he does not go away from his parents. He does not..." "Yes, he`s very attached to us." If ggf wasn't watching him, it seems very plausible that little Deorr toddled off after his parents and something happened in the space between adults. (http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html) Did the parents tell ggf that they were taking a walk and that he was in charge of the baby? Or was he sleeping and they thought they would be back before he woke up?
3. The father say Deorr is small for his age and that he is almost three. I think Deorr was born in January, so he's closer to 2 1/2, but I'm still wondering if it would be possible that if the baby didn't see his parents, could he have returned to the truck? Could he have crawled into the bed of the truck unnoticed (possibly fell asleep) and when his dad took off down to find a better signal, Deorr fell out?
4. In the 911 call, when the operator asks the mom "What is he wearing", Mitchell answers "He was wearing cowboy boots, a blue pair of pajama pants and a camo jacket." Is it common in Idaho to answer that someone was wearing xyz rather than is wearing xyz if he's been missing for an hour? I'm trying to understand if she is using a local colloquialism or if she has already lost hope that he will ever be found. http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/
TIA!
P.S. I don't believe this is sleuthing the family members, as I am sticking to information already approved as source material. Just trying to establish a more specific timeline.
To answer the earlier question, you know I don't like to speculate, especially being that we rarely have the whole story. That being said, I would go back to ground zero and start over. I don't know what directions they went in besides the water, but I would go out in all directions. Sometimes the obvious is not actually the right area. With what we know that's about all you can do. I would also leave the ATVs out. They are great for clearing a road (as long as you aren't worried about destroying tracks or other evidence) and for getting a perimeter set up and getting searchers out a distance quickly. For the purpose of searching for what would sadly now be a deceased small child if he is out there they are not top on my list. Not top when looking for a live child either, can't hear small muffled sounds and it is hard to search thoroughly on them.
Blue, I thought the poster said?
I feel so dumb. Are you able to explain?
and I feel dumb too, what's the importance of his eye color again? in the pics they look brown. mom's more hazel, dad's brown...
I thought I've read brown..
Questions: Could Deorr have been picked up by somebody and carried to the edge of the Reservoir...put him down (leaving smell for SAR dogs) and picked up again and carried elsewhere?
If he was picked up (at the campsite) by somebody he didn't know and like and cried out, would his parents have heard him? I'm guessing not because of distance and stream noise.
Does anyone know if this report is accurate that the water in the creek near their campsite runs TOWARD the reservoir? If so, then this totally eliminates the creek for me because it means only 1/2 mile of creek is possible.
I kept thinking the creek ran AWAY from the reservoir and thought their campsite was downstream from the reservoir. It sounds like it is upstream from it which means water dumps into the reservoir and only 1/2 mile away.
"The family's campsite sat approximately 40 yards from a fast-moving creek -- four to six feet in width and about a foot deep -- that spills into the Timber Creek Reservoir, a half mile from where the toddler was last seen."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/
The family were camping about 40 meters from a fast-flowing creek that empties into the Timber Creek Reservoir.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-not-one-clue-whereabouts.html#ixzz3gomT1mid
Has anyone read whether DeOrr was actually left with the great grandfather when the parents went exploring? Was he actually physically LEFT WITH grandpa by his parents? Because I have seen no statements from grandpa except a news story that he thought DeOrr was with the parents. How exactly did that exchange happen with the parents going to explore and who was watching DeOrr? Why would either party think DeOrr was with the other.......? Were any of them certain of his whereabouts? None of that is clear to me from what I have read so far.
Also if dad had DeOrr at the local store around 1:00 and (I read) the blanket was still in the truck when it was discovered DeOrr was missing -- what campsite/what activities occurred after returning from the store? Meaning did he fall asleep in the truck and was left there for a bit?
Those news reports are wrong. The Timber Creek runs into the Reservoir at the other end from where the were camping and runs out and away from the reservoir on the side they were on. Water runs downhill. The reservoir is at a higher elevation than the campground.
Here is an aerial image of the reservoir and campsite. It is tilted so the top of the map is the highest elevation. Excuse the rough drawing. The blue line is the Creek flowing into the river at the top and out near the campground. The red "arrow" is where I think they were actually camping. In this image there is a truck with camper parked there.
View attachment 78661
Excellent post. I have been thinking that while wild animals would be highly unlikely to enter camp and steal little DeOrr, its very likely that some time during his getting lost in the wild he stumbled upon a den, or was targeted by a wild animal.Morning coffee ramblings.............
I understand that all theories regarding this case have to be on the table at this point, including the theory that he was carried off by a wild predator. Here is the problem I have with that.
I've gone camping and ATV riding hundreds of times in the last 25 some-odd years. I live way up in the mountains next to a National Forest, and on any given day, I can use that forest like a big playground. The forest covers more than 3/4 million acres.
Although there are a few established campground areas, most of the time people will simply pull up in a vehicle, clear a spot, and camp wherever they feel like. That's pretty much the way I've always done it too, depending on where I wanted to go ride quads that weekend. There have been plenty of times when I was camping out there and didn't see or hear another individual for the entire weekend. It's remote, it's isolated, and it's rugged.
When you pull up to ANY campsite and start unloading and making noise, the animals that were lurking in that area are going to flee, especially the larger animals such as deer, elk, cougars, wolves, bobcats,coyotes, bears and javelinas. To this day, I have yet to pull up and begin unpacking my pickup while a bear or a mountain lion sits a few hundred yards away in the shade watching me. Once you do get unloaded and unpacked, and decide to walk around and "explore" the area, you aren't going to find any large animals anywhere near you, they've left the area. The squirrels.....hmmm...yeah, they may hang around....but consider the size of their brains, not to mention they have a safe haven 50' off the ground.
The entire premise of hunting is based on the fact that wild animals don't just hang around like family pets, while you take pot shots at them. You have to go out and find them. You have to sneak up on them. The only way they'll come to you is if you are camouflaged and hidden.
With all of that said above, this same situation would apply to Deorr and his family. In this case we have lots of activity, 4 grown adults and a young child, making noise, doors slamming, people laughing and walking around. The busier and noisier the campsite, the more likely the animals are going to leave the area immediately. They were there for awhile before Deorr vanished, further exasperating the situation.
Taken completely out of this equation would be the part about this so-called predator, seemingly unafraid of humans, running across flat ground, snatching the child up in his jaws, running back across flat land, and disappearing into the brush while two grown adults see and hear absolutely nothing. I've seen lots of bears, but I've never seen one capable of doing that. Mountain lions are so elusive you hardly ever see one, even from a distance. I've managed to catch pictures of them on my game cameras, but have never come across one face-to-face.
I highly doubt that Deorr was snatched up by a wild animal in the beginning of this saga, but I have little doubt that those same wild animals will find him after being alone out in the woods for 13 days and counting.
They need to keep searching and get volunteers to scour the woods in an attempt to find him before the predators do. Forget about the "trained" searchers and the evidence trampling B.S.--- just get out there and walk around aimlessly in a one mile radius. Otherwise, all they WILL find is a camo jacket and cowboy boots.
The main source of any "details" we have about what happened that day is the long interview that the parents did a few days after he went missing.
Paraphrasing, the dad basically says that they went to explore the area and thought DeOrr would be "good with great grandpa" near the campfire. When they came back they asked great grandpa where little DeOrr was and he responded with "I thought he was with you." Or something along those lines. That is pretty much all we have. The story about the trip to the store also came from that interview.
Excellent post. I have been thinking that while wild animals would be highly unlikely to enter camp and steal little DeOrr, its very likely that some time during his getting lost in the wild he stumbled upon a den, or was targeted by a wild animal.
It could have been an hour later or a day or more. Why is everyone fixated on something coming IN to the camp? I've seen little ones move faster than superman and parents will say he was gone in a flash. My own son used to disappear as soon as I blinked.
Having said this, the coyotes here in new York state have been recently coming right into yards to grab our dogs. And there was a hideous incident in Monticello New York a few years ago where a bear actually took a baby right out of a stroller who was napping outside her back door with mom right inside. Broad daylight. Scouts honor.
So I am getting a rash from jumping on and off this here fence. Still thinking creek.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Those news reports are wrong. The Timber Creek runs into the Reservoir at the other end from where the were camping and runs out and away from the reservoir on the side they were on. Water runs downhill. The reservoir is at a higher elevation than the campground.
Here is an aerial image of the reservoir and campsite. It is tilted so the top of the map is the highest elevation. Excuse the rough drawing. The blue line is the Creek flowing into the river at the top and out near the campground. The red "arrow" is where I think they were actually camping. In this image there is a truck with camper parked there. Also looking at the shape of the reservoir, you can see the water runs in at the top in this image and flows out at the bottom forming that long finger-like shape.
View attachment 78661
This image was taken from this map: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ti...m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6
Those news reports are wrong. The Timber Creek runs into the Reservoir at the other end from where the were camping and runs out and away from the reservoir on the side they were on. Water runs downhill. The reservoir is at a higher elevation than the campground.
Here is an aerial image of the reservoir and campsite. It is tilted so the top of the map is the highest elevation. Excuse the rough drawing. The blue line is the Creek flowing into the river at the top and out near the campground. The red "arrow" is where I think they were actually camping. In this image there is a truck with camper parked there. Also looking at the shape of the reservoir, you can see the water runs in at the top in this image and flows out at the bottom forming that long finger-like shape.
View attachment 78661
This image was taken from this map: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ti...m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6
I tend to agree that it is "unlikely" around the immediate camping area however I would have to politely disagree if the boy managed to walk/crawl off on his own and managed to get some distance away from that campground.
An isolated very small child alone in the woods would be very enticing for a large predator such as Idaho has (Cougars, Bears, Wolves). Especially if the boy started to make crying sounds which may sound like a wounded animal to a predator and could actually attract the predator to the boy.
Linked below is just 1 example of a small boy being attacked while 10 feet ahead of another group of people.
http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mate...lion-that-attacked-boy-cupertino-found-killed
We have already had other examples given with links of people who had gotten attacked and a simple google search of "cougar attack" provides many more examples.
I agree it is a rare event but it is a possibility nonetheless and I think that is all that most people are saying.
I very much agree. Also he could have fallen into the creek way downstream after walking along that high embankment. I really wish they would follow that stream for miles. (Maybe they have).I don't think everyone is fixated on someone coming IN to camp. I've tossed around scenarios exactly like you typed: Deorr wanders off in camp...maybe a hundred feet or so....maybe he falls down into the creek and is knocked unconscious. A cougar, hanging out in the trees above the creek watching for prey, siezes the opportunity for an easy meal and jumps down, grabs Deorr and is off to another tree. Or any number of variations. I don't think it would be unusual if there were mutiple natural elements that led to Deorr's disappearance.