ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

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That has certainly occurred to me too. In fact, they might not even have been the ones to buy the things on the receipt. If the person who bought the items paid cash, it would not be evident who the purchaser was. If it was on a debit/credit card that belongs to the Kunz family, then it's their receipt, but it still doesn't prove that Deorr was there. The receipt really tells us very little, IMO.

At this point anything is possible. After thinking about it more, I think there has to be an important reason the parents wanted people to believe they arrived Fri. They let Nate, the public and it would even appear LE (if the sheriff says he found out the different arrival date during the investigation) believe they arrived on a different day.

Yesterday I didn't think it was possible that they would have misled LE because the stakes were so high with their child missing. But now I think it's quite possible. So, unfortunately, that opens up some questions.




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Now I wonder if there's video from a camera at a neighboring store?

The other officer said he didn't think there were ANY cameras in Leadore. It there are, the sheriff and the officer are trying to make it seem like they are not. (Maybe on purpose?) These guys were not about to do anything in this interview to throw a wrench into the FBI's investigation. I think this interview was in part to calm the POI's. The sheriff basically thanked IR for his perceived truthfulness.

ETA: I think there is only like one more store in Leadore! A hunting supplies store.


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Just got through watching the interview with the sheriff and I am deeply disturbed by the Sheriffs assumptions he is making and some of his other comments. With all due respect to him I think this type of thing is way out of his league.

Couple examples.

Reporter asked him about the report of the guy allegedly staring at the boy. Sheriff brushes it off and makes it sound like he doesn't even care about that report.

He also was asked about the friend. Sheriff is quoted as saying he "assumes" and he has "feeling" about things. I am sorry but a good investigator should never assume anything. And everyone needs checked out even if his "feelings" about someone are a certain way.

The Sheriff seems like a really nice person but lets just say I am very glad the FBI has the case. I think critical time was lost during the early days of this investigation.

The key thing I learned is people arrived Thursday night shortly before DARK!! Which tells me they had to setup camp right before dark.

For any fellow campers, we know what this means. What this means is there was a scramble to setup the campsite before it got too dark to see because it is much harder to use flashlights and set everything up. So there was a huge opportunity for people to be distracted and the boy being left unattended.

Wondering if maybe he went missing Thursday night and they decided to look for him all night. They may have felt confident that once morning arrives they would find him sleeping under a tree so maybe decided not to call right away until morning after they check in daylight. But maybe when they finally found him Friday morning it was a disaster instead of what they expected.

The last thing that still bugs me is the Leodore trip. We now learn diesel fuel was needed. Wondering if they were searching for him so much through the night that they needed fuel for the truck to keep looking.
 
I, too, am wondering about the suggestibility of ggp...could he have been truthful about seeing what he saw, but perhaps confused about exactly when he saw it? What if, earlier that morning, before the trip to the store, ggp saw exactly what he said he saw, but then was somehow manipulated into believing or convinced he saw it later?

His friend could be having a hard time backing up the story if he realizes it isn't what actually happened but may have been asked by LE not to contradict what is being said, or more nefariously, by someone involved in what happened.

Two other interesting things...

Sheriff said the parents "SUPPOSEDLY thought they were turning the child over" to the ggp. That's what I say when I don't really believe the story one of my kids is trying to convince me of.

Sheriff did not mention (as we've seen many other times) the emotional toll the search is taking on LE. He emphasizes that there's a lot of stress, they've scaled peaks, searched dens, there's no one on patrol with him because all his personnel are working at the scene; nothing about how they have kids/grandkids DeOrr's age, no choking back tears, nothing about the horror of a child lost in the woods, no indignation..."how DARE someone take a sweet little boy from his family on my watch...someone will PAY for this!" This case doesn't seem 'personal' somehow.
 
If DeOrr Jr tumbled down the bank, there would be snapped twigs, broken branches, skid and scuff marks, or any combination of these. This would be easy to spot quite quickly even by an untrained eye.

Even at a campground? I don't know how many people go to that site, but since we know at least three adults went down to the bank there had to be some trampling. And bears and wolves walking through the camp, according to the sheriff? I have a feeling there might be some recent wear and tear on the wilderness, so not sure the tumble of a 2-year-old would be super apparent. But maybe!!


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Just pulling this from the media thread, my thoughts & questions in Red.



~11:30am – leave for store – 40 minute drive on gravel road – 8 miles away (TV Interview: Went down to the store as a family earlier in the day (DK))
~12:10pm – arrive at store – stay approximately 5 to 10 minutes Did they eat lunch there? Did they bring back lunch for GGP & IR?
~12:20pm – leave store – back to campgrounds
~1:00pm – arrive at campgrounds / start setting up tents, etc. (TV Interview: Haven't left the campsite since 1 pm (DK))So they weren't actually setting up camp when they got back if they arrived the night before & set up camp, right?
~2:00pm – time for Doer’s nap – placed with G-GP by the campfire; parents go exploring (TV Interview: Went off to explore - close to 2 pm (DK)) Was the fire going? Did GGP & IR have lunch at camp while family ran to store?
~2:10pm – parents back – DeOrr missing… (Source: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d-10-July-2015 post# 637) (TV Interview: Went 50 yards and 10 minutes from time last seen til realized missing (DK) and Gone for 10 minutes (JM)) They only explored for 10 minutes?
~2:10pm to 2:27pm – search for DeOrr. (TV Interview: searched about 20 minutes before calling 911 (DK))
2:28 pm {Time-Stamped} - DeOrr’s mother, Jessica Mitchell, calls 911 and reports her son missing. Father goes ½ mile down road to get cell service, and calls 911, but mother has already reported in missing. (source: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d-10-July-2015 post# 624 and see post# 1144 of “who” was camping) (TV Interview: 2:28 911 call - said he's been missing an hour (JM) and Hauled down the road to get better cell reception (DK))
~4:00pm – (approx. time) - Search crews arrive and begin to look for the toddler.
 
Even at a campground? I don't know how many people go to that site, but since we know at least three adults went down to the bank there had to be some trampling. And bears and wolves walking through the camp, according to the sheriff? I have a feeling there might be some recent wear and tear on the wilderness, so not sure the tumble of a 2-year-old would be super apparent. But maybe!!

Not only THAT but just how many people trampled over that area? We have mom and dad, the friend, possibly GGP however I'm doubtful that he would be able to get up and down that embankment, PLUS searchers who first began looking. Let's face it, the "Crime Scene" would have already been contaminated. JMO
 
The last thing that still bugs me is the Leodore trip. We now learn diesel fuel was needed. Wondering if they were searching for him so much through the night that they needed fuel for the truck to keep looking.

FWIW I believe the stop to get diesel fuel was on the way to the campground from Idaho Falls. At least that's the impression I got from the interview.
 
I, too, am wondering about the suggestibility of ggp...could he have been truthful about seeing what he saw, but perhaps confused about exactly when he saw it? What if, earlier that morning, before the trip to the store, ggp saw exactly what he said he saw, but then was somehow manipulated into believing or convinced he saw it later?

His friend could be having a hard time backing up the story if he realizes it isn't what actually happened but may have been asked by LE not to contradict what is being said, or more nefariously, by someone involved in what happened.

Two other interesting things...

Sheriff said the parents "SUPPOSEDLY thought they were turning the child over" to the ggp. That's what I say when I don't really believe the story one of my kids is trying to convince me of.

Sheriff did not mention (as we've seen many other times) the emotional toll the search is taking on LE. He emphasizes that there's a lot of stress, they've scaled peaks, searched dens, there's no one on patrol with him because all his personnel are working at the scene; nothing about how they have kids/grandkids DeOrr's age, no choking back tears, nothing about the horror of a child lost in the woods, no indignation..."how DARE someone take a sweet little boy from his family on my watch...someone will PAY for this!" This case doesn't seem 'personal' somehow.

One weird thing from IR's interview, aside from that he actually he said he was with ggp and DeOrr when DeOrr disappeared, is that when Nate asked him, "and so he just wandered away?" IR responded, "I'm not supposed to say that."
Who told IR what he was not supposed to say? LE? The parents? GGP? Jack Daniels?


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The cadaver dogs they use were being trained? That's the first time I'm hearing that piece of info. Where did it come from?

IIRC they had two different types of dogs. Scent dogs the first few days and the cadaver dogs were brought in a few days later. Is that how everybody else understands it?

No -- I was adding commentary to a link that I'd posted in response to a comment that cadaver dogs wouldn't hit on cremains. I wasn't talking about the dogs used at DeOrr's campsite.
 
If DeOrr went up to the rez and back with his parents earlier in the day on Friday and then went via truck to the store but was not in the campsite after that, would the dogs track to the rez and then back to the campsite and just stop there? Does anyone know if SAR dogs are somehow trained to follow scent trails in any sort of chronological (meaning strength of scent I guess) order?
 
My interpretation of the location:

Green x = campsite
Orange dot = Jr going over bank
Red dot = mom and dad (upstream, and shown on video of campsite by Nate motioning they went that way)
Lavendar dot = Issac (guestimate downstream as indicated in recent video)

Pink line = close to 172 going in/out of upper campground & reservoir

Yellow dots = road dad didn't know about
Yellow x = searchers parked to search reservoir
Blue x = possible location of cremains dumper


81c94b469cb8853e3b8d1041d8330ea5.jpg


Where Deorr went over bank:
1049e617b8fdd0bf56326849272ee8ba.jpg


Direction mom and dad went:
6841fa06140c04498bc6861b96e8f51f.jpg


Showing again the direction mom and dad went:
e366ce741983283d9b6595098112b2a9.jpg


Yellow x on map location:
57e5ba5f62ae83f1f6745d1bd011f267.jpg



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Someone could have been on the other side of that creek and taken him up to the reservoir where the first dogs tracked to.

a533a8be08cd770e903e910f2005d38a.jpg


e361985db165015a93616487122176b8.jpg


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FWIW I believe the stop to get diesel fuel was on the way to the campground from Idaho Falls. At least that's the impression I got from the interview.

Thanks. That would make more sense because they may have been running low on fuel by the time they arrived near the camping area Thursday night. So then maybe the clerk did see them at 6 PM Thursday night afterall too because maybe they stopped at the store Thursday too.
 
If DeOrr went up to the rez and back with his parents earlier in the day on Friday and then went via truck to the store but was not in the campsite after that, would the dogs track to the rez and then back to the campsite and just stop there? Does anyone know if SAR dogs are somehow trained to follow scent trails in any sort of chronological (meaning strength of scent I guess) order?

As Dad DeOrr states in this raw video, he didn't even know the road was there that let up to the reservoir. At about the 8:14 mark.
[video=youtube;mwM1oG3z358]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358[/video]
 
I watched the interview again. The sheriff saying "I don't believe they have a surveillance" in regards to the store sounds about as convincing as Isaac's "as far as I know he disappeared" statement.

Frustrating!
 
One weird thing from IR's interview, aside from that he actually he said he was with ggp and DeOrr when DeOrr disappeared, is that when Nate asked him, "and so he just wandered away?" IR responded, "I'm not supposed to say that."
Who told IR what he was not supposed to say? LE? The parents? GGP? Jack Daniels?

Are you sure he said "I'm not supposed to say that"? It is the part of the interview where there is a car was going by (at the 1:35 mark) and it is hard to hear. I think he said, "I'm not, I'm not...I don't have anything to say about that." Like maybe he was going to say "I'm not sure"...but changed it to "I don't have anything to say." I wonder if he had been coached by somebody to just say some version of "no comment" when questioned by reporters.

Here is the link to the interview with Isaac.
[video=youtube;01DB2lqpWcs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01DB2lqpWcs[/video]
 
Thanks. That would make more sense because they may have been running low on fuel by the time they arrived near the camping area Thursday night. So then maybe the clerk did see them at 6 PM Thursday night afterall too because maybe they stopped at the store Thursday too.

At some point I read (maybe it was just a post) that there was a sighting at a gas station (not the one in Caldwell) and I have been trying to figure out if that was actually the same as the candy/dirty/crying sighting?

I don't think they'd be getting gas in Leadore at 6, then at the campground right around dark, per sheriff. (Sun didn't set until well after 9 PM.) so something in that equation is off. Could have been a gas station on the road.



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The other officer said he didn't think there were ANY cameras in Leadore. It there are, the sheriff and the officer are trying to make it seem like they are not. (Maybe on purpose?) These guys were not about to do anything in this interview to throw a wrench into the FBI's investigation. I think this interview was in part to calm the POI's. The sheriff basically thanked IR for his perceived truthfulness.

ETA: I think there is only like one more store in Leadore! A hunting supplies store.

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Wouldn't you be thrilled if you were a business owner in Leadore and the sheriff announces to the media that he doesn't believe anyone has surveillance cameras in Leadore (as robbers from all over Idaho get into their cars and head up there)? :)
 
You know.. This child was 2 and 1/2. Why was he unsteady on his feet per the grandpa he lived with? I have had a 2 and 1/2 year old. I also have worked as a nurse in various positions and one was pediatrics for almost 5 years. 2 and 1/2 year olds dont toddle.. that is a child who is learning to walk. At 2 and 1/2 years old they walk VERY well. To say he cannot walk on level ground without falling down is concerning. Did he have a physician? Was this ever addressed? Did he have a lot of injuries from falling down? I would like to see this baby's medical records if i was LE. JMO

I wondered about that after seeing the picture of Deorr in front of a river/lake in the first post of this thread. He seemed quite bow-legged, which might affect his ability to walk steadily.
 
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