Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #24

Status
Not open for further replies.
I’d like to comment briefly on a post from the last thread which I can’t bring forward here since the thread is closed. I completely disagree with the statement which assessed Tammy and LDS women in general as passive. It was stated that learning of the affair would result in her “asking” and not “confronting” Chad, and that they would just pray and go to the bishop. I am an LDS woman and I knew Tammy and I know many many other LDS women. They are strong women. Meekness and humility are Christlike attributes, but so are firm faithfulness and solid determination to uphold the commandments. Tammy was strong and absolutely firm when it came to moral principles and I do not believe she would have merely bowed her head and shuffled her feet, so to speak. I respectfully but absolutely disagree with the statements made to the contrary. MOO

IMO, it has absolutely been my experience that LDS women are "passive" as you put it. They will, and do, defer to their husbands in most things. It is part of the culture.

HOWEVER I DO NOT THINK that was the case with Tammy and Chad. I get the sense that Tammy was "in charge" in that relationship. And ultimately, I believe that may have been some of Chad's issue, and why things ended up the way they did.
 
Then, I respectfully apologize. We don't know the dynamics of this relationship or situation.

Your apology is appreciated and accepted. I apologize for being a bit on the defensive side and I believe you meant no slight to Tammy but I did want to defend her character. She was a force for good.
 
IMO, it has absolutely been my experience that LDS women are "passive" as you put it. They will, and do, defer to their husbands in most things. It is part of the culture.

HOWEVER I DO NOT THINK that was the case with Tammy and Chad. I get the sense that Tammy was "in charge" in that relationship. And ultimately, I believe that may have been some of Chad's issue, and why things ended up the way they did.

LDS Women are far from passive. I am not sure what generation you are talking about, but Tammy's generation which is mine are far from this. My husband and I have served on a large University Campus with Young Single Adults for the past 5 yrs. LDS women are educated and are equal to any male counterpart in their thinking and religion. This is why you are seeing changes FINALLY taking place within the LDS church. Passive is not a word the women in the LDS Church have in their vocabulary. End of rant..Thank you for coming to my TedTALk..carry on. MOO
 
Anonymous91 said:
The thing is these are the most dangerous cults, with the most dangerous cult leaders. Especially what I am seeing with this cult. I have read stories of people having all kinds of bad experiences with this already.

I found a couple of forums, where there are LDS people defending this cult, there are also those that oppose it too.

What is particularly dangerous, is how he is teaching this. I don't think your average Christian is going to understand how crafty and insidious this is. Probably a good thing for anyone to know.

The techniques used can apply to a lot of belief systems that we all hold. At the core, this is based on psychological warfare. Sometimes this is very obvious, and in your face. Other times, it is very subtle, and sneaky.

Have you ever changed your mind about something? Of course, we all have. Knowing why we do so can be a valuable tool.

What he does, is he takes scriptures (that he cherry picks), combine this with familiar terminology (in this case LDS terminology), then makes an argument based on this framework.

He uses several other tactics: he is careful to say that that this may not be for you, that you may not be ready for this.

This does several things. Anything bad happens, he can say it's not his fault, the person wasn't ready. The second thing this does is work on a person's psyche. This is why peer pressure works so well, it uses the same line of thinking.

Next, he carefully crafts a message using scriptures, terminology, and widely held beliefs to convince his followers that this is doctrinal. He carefully creates an argument to fit the narrative.

I understand how this works, very well. I spent 4 years in H.S. and 2 in College on Debate teams. What you learn really fast, is that truth can easily be manipulated to fit the narrative. The really crafty, charismatic speakers use techniques to play on people's emotions. This can easily be seen in our culture today.

As an example, here are some very explosive topics, that have people very divided to the point that friendships can be ruined over it. The main ones are what we all know: Religion, politics, and sex. If you really research any of these topics, in depth, you can start to see why people could believe either extreme, or anything in between.

The next sneaky tactic he uses I don't know the name, but maybe someone here does. I will call it "You're a Special Immortal";). Basically what this is, is that most people want to feel that they are "special" in some way, or because they are so "special" they can "save" others. You see this throughout our culture, here are some words it can go under: The White Knight, Narcissist, God Complex, Conceited, Hubris, etc. You get the general idea.

This is where someone who is strongly religious can fall for this trap. They ask themselves some of these questions, have these type of thoughts, and make statements like the following (as an example only):

- Well he is using scriptures. That's good, I'll keep listening.
- He is saying that this works for him (validation), but I might not be ready (Sure I am ready)
- Alright he is using religious terminology that I am familiar with, that makes sense.
- What he's saying makes sense. I'll keep learning about this.
- He's not saying anything bad, he's using scriptures, referring to terminology I am familiar with.
- I'm special (I just knew it), I am so ready for the mysteries. Of course I am one of those 144,000 "Immortals"
- This all makes sense now, I am a true believer.

This is how someone gets pulled into this, it happens gradually over time, and they convince themselves that this is true. There are a lot of techniques that good cult leaders use. Most of them are very experienced with psychology, and how to manipulate one's will. It's basically brainwashing, except the victims are compliant and willing to subject themselves to it.

I'll tell you right now, using this same framework, you could (in theory - please don't) carefully craft a religion that is radicalized and slowly but surely lead people away from God.

This group has already caused people to leave their spouses, believe in reincarnation (they call it something else though), believe they are transitioning to "immortals", and who knows what else.

MOO



So so true. I think this formula is especially potent right now because of something Robert greene said. He said how emotionally needy Gen X is because boomers came of age in the 60s, and because of the culture of that era, they made for irresponsible parents. Gen Xers were often left alone as kids. The need to feel special is inherent in Gen X, who are in their 40s and 50s right now. Gen Xers have a very strong need to belong (generally speaking). This fuels billions of dollar in self care, fitness/yoga, and religion of course.
Combined with the current climate in the country (fear). These fringe groups know exactly who they are looking for, on a conscious and subconscious level. Of course there will be reasonable people, like Lori's girlfriend back in Kauai.
These fringe groups can rake up alot of tax free crumbs, if you just have some charismatic leadership, like any other company.
Do you like Neil postman books? He writes extensively on word usage, Ive only read one of his books but it was very good.
 
Im listening to Nate on the Gray Hughes show and I find the little details to be interesting and make it worth listening to. A cop describes conversing with Chad as pleasant and Lori as a “snake;” the baggie of money was gallon-sized with a large wad of cash and it was not given her by the police it was just what she had her money in; the surveillance footage was a recorded image of a screen because the man at the facility didn’t know how to download it but now he does and clearer images are expected soon... and so forth.
 
Annie Cushing on Twitter

Annie Cushing Tylee Ryan’s Aunt
Twitter account

I believe @Gardener1850 posted about Annie Cushing's "Hail Mary" plan initially.

But I thought I would bring this forward because, looking at both the Twitter and Facebook posts, Annie hasn't gotten a huge response. (11 retweets and about 45 shares at present.)

If anyone who was at Yellowstone that day happened to catch the kids or our POI's in a photo, it could be crucial evidence. I feel that even if no pictures surface, any additional attention the case may get by catching interest in social media could help maintain mainstream media interest, and perhaps even ultimately put pressure on Chad and Lori to speak.

If anyone with a Twitter or FB account is willing to help spread the news, please do. Ask your friends to do the same.
 
Im listening to Nate on the Gray Hughes show and I find the little details to be interesting and make it worth listening to. A cop describes conversing with Chad as pleasant and Lori as a “snake;” the baggie of money was gallon-sized with a large wad of cash and it was not given her by the police it was just what she had her money in; the surveillance footage was a recorded image of a screen because the man at the facility didn’t know how to download it but now he does and clearer images are expected soon... and so forth.

What baggie of cash are we referring to?
 

Attachments

  • nate-on-the-move-asking.jpg
    nate-on-the-move-asking.jpg
    171.6 KB · Views: 81
I’d like to comment briefly on a post from the last thread which I can’t bring forward here since the thread is closed. I completely disagree with the statement which assessed Tammy and LDS women in general as passive. It was stated that learning of the affair would result in her “asking” and not “confronting” Chad, and that they would just pray and go to the bishop. I am an LDS woman and I knew Tammy and I know many many other LDS women. They are strong women. Meekness and humility are Christlike attributes, but so are firm faithfulness and solid determination to uphold the commandments. Tammy was strong and absolutely firm when it came to moral principles and I do not believe she would have merely bowed her head and shuffled her feet, so to speak. I respectfully but absolutely disagree with the statements made to the contrary. MOO
Right? I mean she was gonna throw freezer meals at someone who shot at her. And she yelled at him too. Not passive.
 
Yes I take anything the DailyMail posts with an open mind. They’re usually one of the first to cover a story but fact checking is not their strong point. I know from personal experience when a friends story was covered, they only got his name correct. Everything else was sensationalism. MOO

And, don't I recall, when this vid first surfaced, it was stated he said the kids are fine when he was asked about "kids".....and we all agreed he could say he was talking about HIS kids?
 
Omg, you can even see the currency through the bag. WTH, things are so tough she can't afford a wallet? Interesting that you, LV, don't land in one place long enough to open a bank account. (snark, sorry)(not sorry).
Which is exactly why I think she was showing it off. Snoody *advertiser censored*. IMO
 
I'm watching the Nate Eaton interview on Gray Hughes:


Some new details:

1. Nate says he got a call right before the search warrants were going to be served on Kauai but wasn't told where to go in that first call. Nate and his cameraman (Eric I think?) just happened to see Kauai police pulling over a black SUV at Kauai Beach Resort and wondered if that might be it, so they followed into the parking lot at a distance. A few minutes later Nate got a call telling him to go to the resort and Nate said he was already there-- detectives were not even there yet.

2. The detectives asked Nate and crew to keep their distance but gave a pre-planned signal to Nate to let him know when his crew could approach and ask Lori and Chad questions.

3. Nate had initially only planned to ask Lori "Where are your kids?" and he made up the rest on the spot as they walked; he had no idea when he started following them where they were going or what they might do.

4. Nate talked to one of the LEOs on the curb while Lori and Chad were still in the police cars. Nate asked if they were talking. The LEO said they were not really saying much because both had lawyers, however, the LEO said Chad was being very polite with his answers referring police to his attorney, while Lori was described as "cold" and "as if she had lasers shooting out of her eyes" and one described her as "a snake".

5. The baggie that Lori had cash in was NOT given to her by police. Police told Nate that was how Lori was carrying her cash around and that was her baggie. The baggie was a gallon size or larger and it had mostly 20s that he saw.

6. Nate says they are going to get new, better quality video from the storage cameras in the next few weeks to see if they can positively ID Alex. The video released was done by videoing the monitor because the owner didn't know how to download the video. The camera system was new and had only been put up 2 or 3 weeks before Lori rented the unit.

7. More on the Storage video: Most people enter the door where the camera was located but Lori and the men were entering from the far end. Nate doesn't think they did that to avoid the cameras but he doesn't know; he thinks they did it because the far door was closer to her unit.

8. Nate says that he only assumed the man on Oct 2 was Alex because it didn't look like Chad and he knew Alex was living near Lori in Rexburg. However, Nate tells us for the first time that it was NOT Alex's truck there on Oct 2nd. He does not know for sure that it was Alex in the video. He had not put those 2 events together in his mind before releasing the video where he said the man is thought to be Alex.

9. Alex's pickup truck was first seen in Storage CCTV Oct 6th. Oct 1st, 2nd and 3rd visits were all in Lori's car. Lori was at the storage unit with a man on the 2nd and 3rd around the 1 o'clock hour on both days. She and the man stayed 4 minutes on the 2nd and 3 minutes on the 3rd. Oct 6th was the first time it was Alex's pickup and man alone who stayed for 8 minutes.

10. The Oct 6th visit to the storage unit was the first one made in the pickup truck and all other Oct visits after that showed only 1 man in the truck, until the last visit in October when 2 men came in the pick-up and put bikes in the unit. The Nov 24th visit Lori came with a man believed to be Chad because of the car they were in-- They came in a black Chevy Traverse or whatever car Chad had been driving. They stayed for only 4 minutes.

11. Nate is not 100% confident that the man on Oct 2nd and Oct 3rd Storage visits was Alex and hopes to get more clear video soon to confirm or to identify the individual. Nate is more confident that the Nov 24th storage visit was made by Chad because Nate has seen Chad in person and seen his build, how he walks, etc.

(I'm only about 34 minutes in and need to stop now and listen to the rest later; I'll make another post later if I hear anything else new in the rest)

Tagging @RexburgSleuth --you may want to watch Nate's interview with Gray Hughes for new Storage CCTV details.
 
Last edited:
IMO, it has absolutely been my experience that LDS women are "passive" as you put it. They will, and do, defer to their husbands in most things. It is part of the culture.

HOWEVER I DO NOT THINK that was the case with Tammy and Chad. I get the sense that Tammy was "in charge" in that relationship. And ultimately, I believe that may have been some of Chad's issue, and why things ended up the way they did.

I am not LDS. I have lived in Utah for over 10 years - relocating from NYC. Those who who have experience with both locales will understand the cultural challenges I faced while assimilating. I have posted before about tolerance-which has strengthened my ability to accept the differences between myself and others. This helped me assimilate.

That being said, I am a woman. When I first arrived here, I noticed the passiveness in women. A strive for perfection. Not rocking the boat. Over the last 10 years this has changed immensely. Some of the strongest, most outspoken women I have ever known are LDS women. I truly hope others see this as well and do not perpetuate the idea that LDS women are meek and passive. They are not.

MOO - Tammy was quite intelligent. I believe she loved her church and and believed in her husband, but we know nothing about what went on in her marriage beyond their business.

On the other hand - MOO - I believe Lori, (whose voice sounds weak, fragile even) plays at being passive, a damsel in distress, someone who Chad feels needs protecting. Lori is a criminal warrior. Plays the role every man caught in her web needs her to be.

Off topic - these are the women behind the men in Utah. They can get things done on their own two feet :)
Mormon Women for Ethical Government •
 
Omg, you can even see the currency through the bag. WTH, things are so tough she can't afford a wallet? Interesting that you, LV, don't land in one place long enough to open a bank account. (snark, sorry)(not sorry).
BBM I know you’re being snarky here but you might actually have a point. Nate said there were the kids’ birth certificates and electronics in that baggie too before the cops took them. Maybe was a grab and dash baggie with literally all the money she had left that she kept in the glove box. ?? Or it was an emergency funds in case something happened to CD that she didn’t have access to his money. MOO I’m reaching for straws here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
189
Guests online
3,605
Total visitors
3,794

Forum statistics

Threads
595,489
Messages
18,025,297
Members
229,663
Latest member
GT1510
Back
Top