Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #28

[Sarjon]

I agree, but if he were your father and basically furbar'd your entire life, it would stink. I think being a Daybell now, at least locally, would be tough. Even if you aren't related, you would receive a lack of empathy. I try to remember that empathy isn't deserved. It is a gift you give. Sympathy is not the same. But I also agree that they aren't honoring their mother. This goes back to the seemingly obvious, he is an arshat. No fixing that for sure.

Meaning

Doesn’t the FBI know we are all stuck at home and need a new leak we can discuss???

Disclaimer: I in no way, shape or form think there is anything funny about this case. Just thought we could all use a laugh with all the sadness & anxiety in the world right now. MOO

That made me chuckle. Thank you.
Edit: Watch a good movie. I suggest Stepbrothers, or Jeff Who Lives At Home. The former is silly and will make you laugh, the latter might make you laugh and think a little. I know we aren't supposed to chit chat, but given the stuck at home part...

 

[des2021]

I find it hard to feel sympathy for his kids also. His kids are adults. Tammy was their mother.

I agree 100%. I love both of my parents, but if my father had something to do with my mother’s death I would not stick up for him. But....I do find myself trying to remind myself that these are brainwashed adults who have probably never had to think for themselves. Everything they have thought or done since they were born has been dictated for them by Chad and his beliefs. MOO

 

[des2021]

Meaning

That made me chuckle. Thank you.
Edit: Watch a good movie. I suggest Stepbrothers, or Jeff Who Lives At Home. The former is silly and will make you laugh, the latter might make you laugh and think a little. I know we aren't supposed to chit chat, but given the stuck at home part...

Thank you! I definitely need some good stuff to watch!

 

[Kicky]

Excerpt from the PAP podcast in this report. Chad is portrayed as the cult leader by the cult expert Rick Ross.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=810567362787227

Thank you for posting this. Though the details about Chad and Lori weren't really news to me, I still learned from it.

I'm just going to drop these off here:
The Cult Leader as Psychopath | Rosanne Henry, LPC, Psychotherapy and also Cult Recovery Consultation
Dangerous Cult Leaders

FWIW, I think Chad's "cult" is only a small number of people. I'm guessing 10 or less. (I think he's lost a few of those 10, too.) The posters in the GRI forum might support him now, but they're just reserving judgement - just giving him more benefit of the "doubt" because he's innocent until proven guilty. Yes, these groups (PTZ, PaP, even AVOW) of folks generally share the same sort of beliefs as Chad, but I don't think he has the same type of control and influence over them that it seems he does/did over people he knows well on a personal level. I know some here may disagree with this opinion, but that's okay. It's just a guess from what I've read here and on a LDS-associated site with a thread discussing the case. (I'd so LOVE to have access to those GRI forums...)

 

[squareandrabbet]

There are a number of editing opportunities in a couple of the sections.

LOL, in future I'm going to be using that tactful characterization, when I email my equally picky friend some of the unfortunate/hilarious typos we collect.

 

[reluctant_anthropologist]

I need to confess something. Although I call myself an anthropologist, my primary interest in this case is learning WTF happened. Where are those poor kids? Who was murdered, and who just died? Is the motive something crazy to do with a doomsday cult? Or is it money? Who will crack first? And who on earth put on a mask and shot at Tammy?

For months, I watched as my wife (who knows the Cox family well but doesn't post) read page after page of Websleuths and, night after night, said some version of "I've got to stop this, I've got things to do." And I didn't get it. But, like a dealer, she hooked me, and now it's me sitting alone at midnight, scrolling through the latest posts to see what's new.

I feel something like guilt. I should go to bed so I can wake up early and make sure our socially isolated kids get up on time and we can pretend it's a normal school day that just happens to be taking place at home. Or I should write to my grandma, who's stuck in a nursing home and, because she's high risk for Covid 19, can't receive visitors. But I'm not doing either of those things.

But I want to feel useful. So I'm going to try and help you all understand how Mormonism is simultaneously innocent and guilty of the crime of enabling Chad and Lori's doomsday views.

First of all, I will say that whatever religion Chad and Lori follow, it is not mainstream Mormonism. Mainstream Mormonism is safe. It's corporate. Sure, there's wackiness in the history, but mainstream Mormons truly are the nice neighbors who'll help you move that heavy piano into your house. They hold political views that progressives will find abhorrent. But so does 40% of the country. Mormons embrace, they do not upend, the status quo. And they certainly don't disappear their own kids and escape to Idaho.

But there is more to the story. The belief that the federal government has been taken over by godless men intent on destroying the freedoms that have made America great is not a fringe belief within Mormon culture. On the contrary, you hear such fears expressed almost every Sunday in Mormon churches. And the idea that you must be willing to take up arms to defend your families and communities is also entirely mainstream. Pacifism is not only not considered an aspiration worth striving for, it is derided.

So just as the Republican Party can't convincingly denounce Donald Trump without renouncing core Republican beliefs, the Mormon Church can't convincingly denounce the Chads and Loris of the world without renouncing core Mormon beliefs. They probably want to now. We probably have reached a point where Mormon leadership would risk blowback from its fringier members if they could end the influence of the extreme prepper movement.

But it's too late. For years, Mormon leaders were happy to let the preppers alone because the preppers fought so hard against the groups that Mormon leaders regarded as the true enemies: the atheists, the progressives, and really anyone who laughed at their authority. This was less a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" than it was of "as long as these preppers keep saying these crazy things, then the not-so-different-things we say won't seem crazy." And as long as we don't sound crazy, we'll keep plenty of sheep in our fold.

There was a moment where the Mormon leadership could have stamped out prepperism with a few strongly worded statements to the whole Church. But that moment has passed. The Frankenstein of prepperism won't go down without a fight.

MOO

 

[BigAl16]

I need to confess something. Although I call myself an anthropologist, my primary interest in this case is learning WTF happened. Where are those poor kids? Who was murdered, and who just died? Is the motive something crazy to do with a doomsday cult? Or is it money? Who will crack first? And who on earth put on a mask and shot at Tammy?

For months, I watched as my wife (who knows the Cox family well but doesn't post) read page after page of Websleuths and, night after night, said some version of "I've got to stop this, I've got things to do." And I didn't get it. But, like a dealer, she hooked me, and now it's me sitting alone at midnight, scrolling through the latest posts to see what's new.

I feel something like guilt. I should go to bed so I can wake up early and make sure our socially isolated kids get up on time and we can pretend it's a normal school day that just happens to be taking place at home. Or I should write to my grandma, who's stuck in a nursing home and, because she's high risk for Covid 19, can't receive visitors. But I'm not doing either of those things.

But I want to feel useful. So I'm going to try and help you all understand how Mormonism is simultaneously innocent and guilty of the crime of enabling Chad and Lori's doomsday views.

First of all, I will say that whatever religion Chad and Lori follow, it is not mainstream Mormonism. Mainstream Mormonism is safe. It's corporate. Sure, there's wackiness in the history, but mainstream Mormons truly are the nice neighbors who'll help you move that heavy piano into your house. They hold political views that progressives will find abhorrent. But so does 40% of the country. Mormons embrace, they do not upend, the status quo. And they certainly don't disappear their own kids and escape to Idaho.

But there is more to the story. The belief that the federal government has been taken over by godless men intent on destroying the freedoms that have made America great is not a fringe belief within Mormon culture. On the contrary, you hear such fears expressed almost every Sunday in Mormon churches. And the idea that you must be willing to take up arms to defend your families and communities is also entirely mainstream. Pacifism is not only not considered an aspiration worth striving for, it is derided.

So just as the Republican Party can't convincingly denounce Donald Trump without renouncing core Republican beliefs, the Mormon Church can't convincingly denounce the Chads and Loris of the world without renouncing core Mormon beliefs. They probably want to now. We probably have reached a point where Mormon leadership would risk blowback from its fringier members if they could end the influence of the extreme prepper movement.

But it's too late. For years, Mormon leaders were happy to let the preppers alone because the preppers fought so hard against the groups that Mormon leaders regarded as the true enemies: the atheists, the progressives, and really anyone who laughed at their authority. This was less a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" than it was of "as long as these preppers keep saying these crazy things, then the not-so-different-things we say won't seem crazy." And as long as we don't sound crazy, we'll keep plenty of sheep in our fold.

There was a moment where the Mormon leadership could have stamped out prepperism with a few strongly worded statements to the whole Church. But that moment has passed. The Frankenstein of prepperism won't go down without a fight.

MOO

My nomination for post of the week.

 

[Alohaj]

I need to confess something. Although I call myself an anthropologist, my primary interest in this case is learning WTF happened. Where are those poor kids? Who was murdered, and who just died? Is the motive something crazy to do with a doomsday cult? Or is it money? Who will crack first? And who on earth put on a mask and shot at Tammy?

For months, I watched as my wife (who knows the Cox family well but doesn't post) read page after page of Websleuths and, night after night, said some version of "I've got to stop this, I've got things to do." And I didn't get it. But, like a dealer, she hooked me, and now it's me sitting alone at midnight, scrolling through the latest posts to see what's new.

I feel something like guilt. I should go to bed so I can wake up early and make sure our socially isolated kids get up on time and we can pretend it's a normal school day that just happens to be taking place at home. Or I should write to my grandma, who's stuck in a nursing home and, because she's high risk for Covid 19, can't receive visitors. But I'm not doing either of those things.

But I want to feel useful. So I'm going to try and help you all understand how Mormonism is simultaneously innocent and guilty of the crime of enabling Chad and Lori's doomsday views.

First of all, I will say that whatever religion Chad and Lori follow, it is not mainstream Mormonism. Mainstream Mormonism is safe. It's corporate. Sure, there's wackiness in the history, but mainstream Mormons truly are the nice neighbors who'll help you move that heavy piano into your house. They hold political views that progressives will find abhorrent. But so does 40% of the country. Mormons embrace, they do not upend, the status quo. And they certainly don't disappear their own kids and escape to Idaho.

But there is more to the story. The belief that the federal government has been taken over by godless men intent on destroying the freedoms that have made America great is not a fringe belief within Mormon culture. On the contrary, you hear such fears expressed almost every Sunday in Mormon churches. And the idea that you must be willing to take up arms to defend your families and communities is also entirely mainstream. Pacifism is not only not considered an aspiration worth striving for, it is derided.

So just as the Republican Party can't convincingly denounce Donald Trump without renouncing core Republican beliefs, the Mormon Church can't convincingly denounce the Chads and Loris of the world without renouncing core Mormon beliefs. They probably want to now. We probably have reached a point where Mormon leadership would risk blowback from its fringier members if they could end the influence of the extreme prepper movement.

But it's too late. For years, Mormon leaders were happy to let the preppers alone because the preppers fought so hard against the groups that Mormon leaders regarded as the true enemies: the atheists, the progressives, and really anyone who laughed at their authority. This was less a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" than it was of "as long as these preppers keep saying these crazy things, then the not-so-different-things we say won't seem crazy." And as long as we don't sound crazy, we'll keep plenty of sheep in our fold.

There was a moment where the Mormon leadership could have stamped out prepperism with a few strongly worded statements to the whole Church. But that moment has passed. The Frankenstein of prepperism won't go down without a fight.

MOO

Lots to ponder and interesting perspective, thanks!
JMO

 

[Alohaj]

I am reading a book that was reference to on this chat much earlier, called “Under the Banner of Heaven”, about some crimes but gives amazing history of the Mormon church and the fringe elements, etc. very informative

 

[Sarjon]

I need to confess something. Although I call myself an anthropologist, my primary interest in this case is learning WTF happened. Where are those poor kids? Who was murdered, and who just died? Is the motive something crazy to do with a doomsday cult? Or is it money? Who will crack first? And who on earth put on a mask and shot at Tammy?

For months, I watched as my wife (who knows the Cox family well but doesn't post) read page after page of Websleuths and, night after night, said some version of "I've got to stop this, I've got things to do." And I didn't get it. But, like a dealer, she hooked me, and now it's me sitting alone at midnight, scrolling through the latest posts to see what's new.

I feel something like guilt. I should go to bed so I can wake up early and make sure our socially isolated kids get up on time and we can pretend it's a normal school day that just happens to be taking place at home. Or I should write to my grandma, who's stuck in a nursing home and, because she's high risk for Covid 19, can't receive visitors. But I'm not doing either of those things.

But I want to feel useful. So I'm going to try and help you all understand how Mormonism is simultaneously innocent and guilty of the crime of enabling Chad and Lori's doomsday views.

First of all, I will say that whatever religion Chad and Lori follow, it is not mainstream Mormonism. Mainstream Mormonism is safe. It's corporate. Sure, there's wackiness in the history, but mainstream Mormons truly are the nice neighbors who'll help you move that heavy piano into your house. They hold political views that progressives will find abhorrent. But so does 40% of the country. Mormons embrace, they do not upend, the status quo. And they certainly don't disappear their own kids and escape to Idaho.

But there is more to the story. The belief that the federal government has been taken over by godless men intent on destroying the freedoms that have made America great is not a fringe belief within Mormon culture. On the contrary, you hear such fears expressed almost every Sunday in Mormon churches. And the idea that you must be willing to take up arms to defend your families and communities is also entirely mainstream. Pacifism is not only not considered an aspiration worth striving for, it is derided.

So just as the Republican Party can't convincingly denounce Donald Trump without renouncing core Republican beliefs, the Mormon Church can't convincingly denounce the Chads and Loris of the world without renouncing core Mormon beliefs. They probably want to now. We probably have reached a point where Mormon leadership would risk blowback from its fringier members if they could end the influence of the extreme prepper movement.

But it's too late. For years, Mormon leaders were happy to let the preppers alone because the preppers fought so hard against the groups that Mormon leaders regarded as the true enemies: the atheists, the progressives, and really anyone who laughed at their authority. This was less a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" than it was of "as long as these preppers keep saying these crazy things, then the not-so-different-things we say won't seem crazy." And as long as we don't sound crazy, we'll keep plenty of sheep in our fold.

There was a moment where the Mormon leadership could have stamped out prepperism with a few strongly worded statements to the whole Church. But that moment has passed. The Frankenstein of prepperism won't go down without a fight.

MOO

I'm not Morman. I grew up in Colorado and while my parents weren't particularly religious, they took us to church on holidays, and talked about God in general. They weren't perfect, but they were casual and gave me a lot of freedom. Thankfully, I was a goodie. I happened to be smart, well, maybe just street smart. My neighbor was Morman, she was a young mom, two gorgeous kids. I was the girl that adored kids. I loved her kids, she had a baby, Brock, and a daughter, Ashley, and I wanted also wanted to be like their mom. I asked her if I could be a mother's helper. For free. She jumped at the chance, and I watched her cook and sew, and my payment was lunch. I colored with them (back when kids had coloring books) and built castles with blocks, but I realized that I wanted her to be my mom. I told her one day, "I wish you were my mom" She gave me a Morman bible. I showed my own mom at home later that day, she didn't judge but probably didn't care. I read a few chapters, I didn't really get it. Bibles are tough reads. Anyway, what you are missing is you are taking this personally. The fact that there are a few bad apples, Morman, Christian, Catholic, you can't take it personally. It doesn't paint a great picture, but all religions have these bad apples. Don't ever take anything personally. There are good Mormans, and bad Mormans. Good Catholics and bad Catholics. Be your best, don't listen to the bad. I joined his site because I couldn't believe LV made her kids disappear. The Morman or not Morman never entered my mind. It was the bad mother part, and let us be honest, she is not Morman. She is just part of the crazy.

 

[cocomod]

The Morman or not Morman never entered my mind. It was the bad mother part, and let us be honest, she is not Morman. She is just part of the crazy.

Respectfully snipped by me. BRAVO!! Well said and I totally agree.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I need to confess something. Although I call myself an anthropologist, my primary interest in this case is learning WTF happened. Where are those poor kids? Who was murdered, and who just died? Is the motive something crazy to do with a doomsday cult? Or is it money? Who will crack first? And who on earth put on a mask and shot at Tammy?

For months, I watched as my wife (who knows the Cox family well but doesn't post) read page after page of Websleuths and, night after night, said some version of "I've got to stop this, I've got things to do." And I didn't get it. But, like a dealer, she hooked me, and now it's me sitting alone at midnight, scrolling through the latest posts to see what's new.

I feel something like guilt. I should go to bed so I can wake up early and make sure our socially isolated kids get up on time and we can pretend it's a normal school day that just happens to be taking place at home. Or I should write to my grandma, who's stuck in a nursing home and, because she's high risk for Covid 19, can't receive visitors. But I'm not doing either of those things.

But I want to feel useful. So I'm going to try and help you all understand how Mormonism is simultaneously innocent and guilty of the crime of enabling Chad and Lori's doomsday views.

First of all, I will say that whatever religion Chad and Lori follow, it is not mainstream Mormonism. Mainstream Mormonism is safe. It's corporate. Sure, there's wackiness in the history, but mainstream Mormons truly are the nice neighbors who'll help you move that heavy piano into your house. They hold political views that progressives will find abhorrent. But so does 40% of the country. Mormons embrace, they do not upend, the status quo. And they certainly don't disappear their own kids and escape to Idaho.

But there is more to the story. The belief that the federal government has been taken over by godless men intent on destroying the freedoms that have made America great is not a fringe belief within Mormon culture. On the contrary, you hear such fears expressed almost every Sunday in Mormon churches. And the idea that you must be willing to take up arms to defend your families and communities is also entirely mainstream. Pacifism is not only not considered an aspiration worth striving for, it is derided.

So just as the Republican Party can't convincingly denounce Donald Trump without renouncing core Republican beliefs, the Mormon Church can't convincingly denounce the Chads and Loris of the world without renouncing core Mormon beliefs. They probably want to now. We probably have reached a point where Mormon leadership would risk blowback from its fringier members if they could end the influence of the extreme prepper movement.

But it's too late. For years, Mormon leaders were happy to let the preppers alone because the preppers fought so hard against the groups that Mormon leaders regarded as the true enemies: the atheists, the progressives, and really anyone who laughed at their authority. This was less a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" than it was of "as long as these preppers keep saying these crazy things, then the not-so-different-things we say won't seem crazy." And as long as we don't sound crazy, we'll keep plenty of sheep in our fold.

There was a moment where the Mormon leadership could have stamped out prepperism with a few strongly worded statements to the whole Church. But that moment has passed. The Frankenstein of prepperism won't go down without a fight.

MOO

That is wonderful, thank you.

As someone completely foreign to any organized religion but interested in CD/LVD I have recently gone down rabbit holes reading about fringe people and groups like Denver Snuffer, Mechelle McDermott, the Lafferty brothers, and the FLDS at Short Creek. It does seem to me these "organizations" or "movements" can't exist without LDS, but also LDS can't call them out without appearing complicit. Exactly the same way Catholics can't come out against sex abuse and Muslims can't come out against terrorism. The mainstream part of these churches has done so over and over publicly. Every additional time they say it now makes it less relevant, and the believers are going to believe and the doubters are going to doubt regardless of the statements of the church.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

What did she actually tell LE on the 6th Dec? That they both rang her and asked her to lie and they said he was with KVW? So on the 26th she just said JJ hadn't been there for months but did not mention being asked to lie for them.

This is very interesting. LE contacted MG on Nov 26 to ask if she had JJ. She said no, JJ hadn't been at her place in months. The same day LVD and CD call MG and ask her to say she has JJ.

Did MG talk to LE before or after LVD and CD called her?
Would it have mattered (would she have lied if the timing was different)?
If LVD/CD called her before LE did, did she tell Gilbert LE they asked her to lie?
Why did she call Rexburg PD on Dec 6? What prompted it, what did they discuss?

Lastly, there are 2 missing kids. If LVD and CD are trying to cover up JJ's disappearance with their old friend MG, do they not think Tylee's disappearance is even worth mentioning??

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I'll say. They could have cleaned up the grammar some. And maybe used a bus, not a coach, for the title graphic.

Though the range of payment options is reassuringly comprehensive...

Do they take Apple Pay? Because I want my professional services to be in line with my consumer choices.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

I guess we know his current budget then. I assume he's got life insurance and a plan for Lori this October.

MOO

If Chad bought life insurance after marrying Lori he is the dumbest man on earth.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Thank you for posting this. Though the details about Chad and Lori weren't really news to me, I still learned from it.

I'm just going to drop these off here:
The Cult Leader as Psychopath | Rosanne Henry, LPC, Psychotherapy and also Cult Recovery Consultation
Dangerous Cult Leaders

FWIW, I think Chad's "cult" is only a small number of people. I'm guessing 10 or less. (I think he's lost a few of those 10, too.) The posters in the GRI forum might support him now, but they're just reserving judgement - just giving him more benefit of the "doubt" because he's innocent until proven guilty. Yes, these groups (PTZ, PaP, even AVOW) of folks generally share the same sort of beliefs as Chad, but I don't think he has the same type of control and influence over them that it seems he does/did over people he knows well on a personal level. I know some here may disagree with this opinion, but that's okay. It's just a guess from what I've read here and on a LDS-associated site with a thread discussing the case. (I'd so LOVE to have access to those GRI forums...)

So combining with other posts up thread, we think he might be bringing in as much as $5/month per member and he has as many as 10 followers...Maybe 20% goes back to CP for overhead of the website, divide by 30 days, carry the 3... the total of his involvement for years in this group could be worth as much as a cup of coffee a day?

 

[AbbeyBabbey]

I'm not Morman. I grew up in Colorado and while my parents weren't particularly religious, they took us to church on holidays, and talked about God in general. They weren't perfect, but they were casual and gave me a lot of freedom. Thankfully, I was a goodie. I happened to be smart, well, maybe just street smart. My neighbor was Morman, she was a young mom, two gorgeous kids. I was the girl that adored kids. I loved her kids, she had a baby, Brock, and a daughter, Ashley, and I wanted also wanted to be like their mom. I asked her if I could be a mother's helper. For free. She jumped at the chance, and I watched her cook and sew, and my payment was lunch. I colored with them (back when kids had coloring books) and built castles with blocks, but I realized that I wanted her to be my mom. I told her one day, "I wish you were my mom" She gave me a Morman bible. I showed my own mom at home later that day, she didn't judge but probably didn't care. I read a few chapters, I didn't really get it. Bibles are tough reads. Anyway, what you are missing is you are taking this personally. The fact that there are a few bad apples, Morman, Christian, Catholic, you can't take it personally. It doesn't paint a great picture, but all religions have these bad apples. Don't ever take anything personally. There are good Mormans, and bad Mormans. Good Catholics and bad Catholics. Be your best, don't listen to the bad. I joined his site because I couldn't believe LV made her kids disappear. The Morman or not Morman never entered my mind. It was the bad mother part, and let us be honest, she is not Morman. She is just part of the crazy.

BBM No one can make that claim. No one can take that away from her. She was born into it, she grew up with it and she seems to think that she practices it, albeit in a CRAZY (to most) way. Only Lori can determine if Lori is Mormon or not. She has a First Amendment right to practice what she wants. And at this point, there is no separating "her" religion from what has happened here. (Not sticking up for her - she's the vilest of vile in my book! She is, indeed, a BAD SEED or apple or whatever you want to call her!)

I usually stir clear of poster's disagreements (I know I'm going to regret posting this) but I have to insert my thoughts here and strongly disagree with what you posted (my pink font) to reluctant_anthropologist . His post was a well-written, intellectual piece with no emotion attached to it. I saw nothing that indicates anything "personal" in his post. Your response is full of emotions and very personal (certainly nothing wrong with that!), and yet you perceived his state of mind and intent based on your own personalization while telling him to not take it personally.

The only reason I speak out is because I really appreciate posters who can educate those of us that know little to nothing about Mormonism. There is another poster here (or was - she may have gotten discouraged with posts that attacked her differing insight/experience) who had insider information that was very educational. I appreciate these posters and hate to see them "corrected" to a point of not wanted to express themselves here when they are such a treasure to some of us who seek a better understanding of things that are not otherwise understandable.

This is all MOO and not an attack on you. Please forgive me if it appears that way.

 

[Whaddayano]

and now it's me sitting alone at midnight, scrolling through the latest posts to see what's new.

I feel something like guilt. I should go to bed so I can wake up early and....

oh G*d it is 11:59pm and me too!

 

[Whaddayano]

My nomination for post of the week.

Seconded!

 

[Alohaj]

BBM No one can make that claim. No one can take that away from her. She was born into it, she grew up with it and she seems to think that she practices it, albeit in a CRAZY (to most) way. Only Lori can determine if Lori is Mormon or not. She has a First Amendment right to practice what she wants. And at this point, there is no separating "her" religion from what has happened here. (Not sticking up for her - she's the vilest of vile in my book! She is, indeed, a BAD SEED or apple or whatever you want to call her!)

I usually stir clear of poster's disagreements (I know I'm going to regret posting this) but I have to insert my thoughts here and strongly disagree with what you posted (my pink font) to reluctant_anthropologist . His post was a well-written, intellectual piece with no emotion attached to it. I saw nothing that indicates anything "personal" in his post. Your response is full of emotions and very personal (certainly nothing wrong with that!), and yet you perceived his state of mind and intent based on your own personalization while telling him to not take it personally.

The only reason I speak out is because I really appreciate posters who can educate those of us that know little to nothing about Mormonism. There is another poster here (or was - she may have gotten discouraged with posts that attacked her differing insight/experience) who had insider information that was very educational. I appreciate these posters and hate to see them "corrected" to a point of not wanted to express themselves here when they are such a treasure to some of us who seek a better understanding of things that are not otherwise understandable.

This is all MOO and not an attack on you. Please forgive me if it appears that way.

Yikes!