Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #30

[TexieLouWho21]

Makes me wonder if they have policies on each other.

LOL I almost choked, I laughed so hard. That would be like Mr &Mrs Smith.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Right? I'm actually surprised he/they took the time and felt the need to make a statement to refute a rumor of divorce, considering it was his/their position earlier that they would only address the more important issue of the missing kids once it had "moved beyond speculation and rumor.” I guess quashing any rumors of Chad and Lori's marital situation is more important to them than the well-being and safety of two missing children.

Bc it’s true. He’s not filing for divorce. Everything else the lawyer has to dispute would be a LIE.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Another possibly is that the results were inconclusive

If that were the case, wouldnt they have to make it public?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Garna Mejia KSL

@GarnaMejiaKSL
·
25 Mar

#LoriVallow/Daybell Update: Mark Means remains as her attorney & filed for a bond reduction citing “new facts.” We have reached out for info. After rumors that #ChadDaybell has filed for divorce his attorney confirms he “has not filed for divorce.”
@KSL5TV





I was getting up to date on the media thread and just saw this so am posting in here. I hadn't seen this. Chad's attorney refuting rumours he has filed for divorce.

How likely do people think that he might be considering it though?

Why would he do that? If he does LVD would get half of his assets? If he patiently waits, she might take a shiv and he gets another policy payout.

 

[TexieLouWho21]

I don't remember seeing this before. If it has been posted before forgive me. Once again a 1 million dollar life insurance policy. Only this one was MBP and BB.

“Brandon believed Melani, his wife at the time, had a million dollars of reasons to have him killed,” the filing alleged in reference to a life insurance policy.

Crazy Custody Battle With Doomsday Mom’s Niece Airs Claims of Cults, Child-Stealing, and Attempted Murder

 

[fuzzybutter]

If chad was smart he would divorce her, I don't know if he realizes that Lolo is looking at possibly 30 years. I don't think he would want to wait for her, he will be an old man.He should cut his losses and maybe has a chance to meet someone else, unless he too ends up in jail. MOO

Hopefully he will be arrested soon. He is as guilty as she is. He had some involvement with TDs death, and at a minimum assisted with disposal of her kids. He doesn’t deserve to meet anybody else.

 

[Monroe2]

Let's assume the worst:

• TD's autopsy is inconclusive and charges cannot be brought.
• Charles Vallow's death cannot be proven conclusively to involve conspiracy and so charges cannot be brought.
• The kids stay missing and Lori says nothing - ever.
• She comes from a family where members have spent 1+ years in jail in moot fights with the government so IMO jail doesn't mean to her what it means to us.

She's still going to be convicted of the charges brought against her.

• She'll stay in jail for at least several years.
• The July 2020 apocalypse will pass with the world intact and CD's remaining followers will have to reassess/re-up the delusion.
• CD will not be able to be with his forever-wife.
• CD's kids will eye their dad with suspicion till the end of time.

It's not the way it should end, but if it's the way it does end, then at least there's some solace in the fact that these two won't be together again for a long time.

Good job, I agree

 

[watergirl62]

There is a paradox buried deep within Mormonism. It is the simultaneous belief that all Church members can receive personal revelation from God and all revelations must go through the prophet. Now, mainstream Mormons will tell you there's no contradiction here. They will tell you that the prophet is the only man who can receive revelation for the entire Church but individual Church members are entitled to revelations for themselves and their families.

Most of the time, this division of labor works well enough. In the late 1970s, for example, the prophet received a revelation that full Church membership rights could now be open to everyone regardless of the color of their skin. At that same time, Brother Jensen from Rexburg might have received a revelation that he should take the job he'd just been offered. You see lots of examples of this second kind of revelation on Chad's blog (thank you @Gardener1850 for indexing those!): Chad receives a revelation to move his family to Idaho, Tammy receives a revelation to start a family, and so on. It would be difficult for me to overstate just how common, how familiar, and how boring these kinds of revelations are in a Mormon context. If someone told you about one of them at Church, you'd probably forget about it before you got home.

So what's the problem? The problem is when Mormon men (and they're always men) get fed up with having revelations only for themselves and their families. The specific reasons men may come to feel this way are of course as numerous as the men themselves, but it's probably safe to say that, in general, their frustration stems from a sense they should have risen higher in the Church's priesthood hierarchy. They may look around and think "I should be a bishop" and "It's surely a mistake that I'm still just a Sunday School teacher." The deepest fear of Mormon men like Chad is that they're ordinary.

If you read through Chad's blog posts, it seems clear that all the miraculous yarns he spins are an attempt to prove to himself and others that he is special. In his telling, he doesn't understand why he receives so many visions, and, with delightful (if false) modesty, he sometimes shakes a metaphorical fist at the God from whom the frequently disruptive visions come. The visions Chad describes in his blog posts, all of which appear to have been written during a few short weeks in 2015, are mostly personal or related to his family. But in the last couple of posts, his tone shifts and we are introduced for the first time to Chad the Prophet, the man who sees things that will affect the whole Church, the state of Utah, and indeed all of humanity.

By expanding the scope of his revelations, Chad is implicitly setting himself up as a rival to Church leaders. And this is a problem . . . for Chad. Because Mormons believe you have to be righteous to receive revelations, and being righteous requires obeying the prophet and accepting that only the prophet can speak for God.

Flash forward to 2018 when Chad narrates a series of dreams he claims to have had over a period of about a week. It's in these "Train Dreams" that Chad squares the theological circle. He describes several scenes with important prophets of the Mormon Church. Most of the prophets engage directly with the members. For example, Gordon B. Hinckley, who was prophet of the Church until 2008, "faced [Chad] with his cane held high and a big smile on his face." Unfortunately, Thomas S. Monson, the next prophet ignored the members, refused to acknowledge Chad and several other Mormon writers, and simply "went quiet."

As usual in these situations, Chad's visionary talents desert him and he finds himself confused about what he's witnessing. Fortunately, a man he doesn't recognize explains what's going on: "Times have changed. Gospel knowledge won’t be served on a silver platter anymore. We are now in an era when the Saints must seek out truth and develop their own testimonies, rather than live on borrowed light.” Still struggling, Chad asks the man why everything can't remain the same. The man replies: "The Saints must learn to recognize the Spirit in their lives, rather than following the prophet like unquestioning sheep."

And there you have it. In that exchange between Chad and the unknown man, we have Daybellism's origin story, its foundational myth. The old rules worked for 150+ years, but now they don't. Whereas righteous discipleship used to be synonymous with listening to the Prophet and doing what he said, that's no longer enough. And real Mormons, the ones who, like Chad, really get it, know that God requires more from them. Forget the silly stories about whining unborn kids and mischievous cemetery ghosts. The only thing that matters now is Jesus' second coming . . . and the plagues, earthquakes, and locusts that will precede it.

MOO

Nice post - thanks so much! I really appreciate your framing Chad's behavior within the Mormon perspective. I miss the religious content as historical backdrop to the making of a prophet, or the cultural anthropology, if you will. It is so fascinating to me. MOO IMO

There is a Mormon podcast (that I believe generally focuses on fundamental extremists - I haven't listened to other episodes yet) with three episodes dedicated to the Daybell case, not sure I can name it? Anyways, what I liked most about the podcast is that the 'shock and awe' of this case that may be partially attributed to being non-Mormon is absent from the podcast. The general takeaway I got is that Mormon prophets are a dime a dozen, and the female host asks the question why are some of them becoming more violent? (The answer to this surely belongs in an entirely different thread).

 

[nhmemorymaker]

There is a paradox buried deep within Mormonism. It is the simultaneous belief that all Church members can receive personal revelation from God and all revelations must go through the prophet. Now, mainstream Mormons will tell you there's no contradiction here. They will tell you that the prophet is the only man who can receive revelation for the entire Church but individual Church members are entitled to revelations for themselves and their families.

Most of the time, this division of labor works well enough. In the late 1970s, for example, the prophet received a revelation that full Church membership rights could now be open to everyone regardless of the color of their skin. At that same time, Brother Jensen from Rexburg might have received a revelation that he should take the job he'd just been offered. You see lots of examples of this second kind of revelation on Chad's blog (thank you @Gardener1850 for indexing those!): Chad receives a revelation to move his family to Idaho, Tammy receives a revelation to start a family, and so on. It would be difficult for me to overstate just how common, how familiar, and how boring these kinds of revelations are in a Mormon context. If someone told you about one of them at Church, you'd probably forget about it before you got home.

So what's the problem? The problem is when Mormon men (and they're always men) get fed up with having revelations only for themselves and their families. The specific reasons men may come to feel this way are of course as numerous as the men themselves, but it's probably safe to say that, in general, their frustration stems from a sense they should have risen higher in the Church's priesthood hierarchy. They may look around and think "I should be a bishop" and "It's surely a mistake that I'm still just a Sunday School teacher." The deepest fear of Mormon men like Chad is that they're ordinary.

If you read through Chad's blog posts, it seems clear that all the miraculous yarns he spins are an attempt to prove to himself and others that he is special. In his telling, he doesn't understand why he receives so many visions, and, with delightful (if false) modesty, he sometimes shakes a metaphorical fist at the God from whom the frequently disruptive visions come. The visions Chad describes in his blog posts, all of which appear to have been written during a few short weeks in 2015, are mostly personal or related to his family. But in the last couple of posts, his tone shifts and we are introduced for the first time to Chad the Prophet, the man who sees things that will affect the whole Church, the state of Utah, and indeed all of humanity.

By expanding the scope of his revelations, Chad is implicitly setting himself up as a rival to Church leaders. And this is a problem . . . for Chad. Because Mormons believe you have to be righteous to receive revelations, and being righteous requires obeying the prophet and accepting that only the prophet can speak for God.

Flash forward to 2018 when Chad narrates a series of dreams he claims to have had over a period of about a week. It's in these "Train Dreams" that Chad squares the theological circle. He describes several scenes with important prophets of the Mormon Church. Most of the prophets engage directly with the members. For example, Gordon B. Hinckley, who was prophet of the Church until 2008, "faced [Chad] with his cane held high and a big smile on his face." Unfortunately, Thomas S. Monson, the next prophet ignored the members, refused to acknowledge Chad and several other Mormon writers, and simply "went quiet."

As usual in these situations, Chad's visionary talents desert him and he finds himself confused about what he's witnessing. Fortunately, a man he doesn't recognize explains what's going on: "Times have changed. Gospel knowledge won’t be served on a silver platter anymore. We are now in an era when the Saints must seek out truth and develop their own testimonies, rather than live on borrowed light.” Still struggling, Chad asks the man why everything can't remain the same. The man replies: "The Saints must learn to recognize the Spirit in their lives, rather than following the prophet like unquestioning sheep."

And there you have it. In that exchange between Chad and the unknown man, we have Daybellism's origin story, its foundational myth. The old rules worked for 150+ years, but now they don't. Whereas righteous discipleship used to be synonymous with listening to the Prophet and doing what he said, that's no longer enough. And real Mormons, the ones who, like Chad, really get it, know that God requires more from them. Forget the silly stories about whining unborn kids and mischievous cemetery ghosts. The only thing that matters now is Jesus' second coming . . . and the plagues, earthquakes, and locusts that will precede it.

MOO

I have copied your post...for future reference. I know it is such a sensitivity to mainstream Mormons, but to most of us who want to be highly analytical about this...well... it remains an elephant in the room. Having been a Catholic (converted way back, and never knew what it is to unconvert), I have never NOT questioned the Catholic Church. And some of the best arguments/discussions were with Jesuit Priests. I feel that even if one has a personal devout relationship with God or Jesus Christ or other, one can totally believe but still question spirituality and actions.

I personally find heartfelt analytics are next to impossible with my Mormon relatives. It does appear that there is so much "goodness" in living a Mormon life, but all propheting, business, demands, heavy tithing, must dos, can't dos that are just so accepted with no questioning, just kind of boggles my mind.

Your analysis of Chad as living on that edge, of wanting to be acknowledged, but then needing his own ego to be heard is so vivid. I actually "see him in the flesh" so well through your analysis.

On a slightly humorous note, I wonder what it would be like to be in a room with Chad, Snuffer, Parrett, and others. All those Macho drums are deafening. I am kind of like a "just give me a patch of grass to get on my knees and connect with God" kind of person. And through my life I have had many many many a good heady arguments with atheists, evangelicals, even a Scientologist or two. But never with my Mormon relatives. I remember once when I wanted to give a beautiful gift of sculpture to my sister-in-law, and my brother found out it was made by devout Catholic Brother...he said best not to give it. Never figured that one out.

What makes me feel that that the LDS Church MUST be part of this story is because every single character in this drama are Mormons. Do they relate to anybody else who is not Mormon in this entire stream of activity? Melani claims that AxC is so devout. Lori appears to marry 4 non-Mormons. Even our talented and wonderful journalist, Nate Eaton, a Mormon as well, didn't even know of all these weird groups out there. I just hope that Mormons can understand why this is just so confusing to us who are not.

It is a thick thread that pulls everyone together in this whole Netflix drama.

 

[Deerrun]

Nate Eaton - Reporter
A recap, a year since JJ was with Woodcocks

 

[JosefZ]

I have copied your post...for future reference. I know it is such a sensitivity to mainstream Mormons, but to most of us who want to be highly analytical about this...well... it remains an elephant in the room. Having been a Catholic (converted way back, and never knew what it is to unconvert), I have never NOT questioned the Catholic Church. And some of the best arguments/discussions were with Jesuit Priests. I feel that even if one has a personal devout relationship with God or Jesus Christ or other, one can totally believe but still question spirituality and actions.

I personally find heartfelt analytics are next to impossible with my Mormon relatives. It does appear that there is so much "goodness" in living a Mormon life, but all propheting, business, demands, heavy tithing, must dos, can't dos that are just so accepted with no questioning, just kind of boggles my mind.

Your analysis of Chad as living on that edge, of wanting to be acknowledged, but then needing his own ego to be heard is so vivid. I actually "see him in the flesh" so well through your analysis.

On a slightly humorous note, I wonder what it would be like to be in a room with Chad, Snuffer, Parrett, and others. All those Macho drums are deafening. I am kind of like a "just give me a patch of grass to get on my knees and connect with God" kind of person. And through my life I have had many many many a good heady arguments with atheists, evangelicals, even a Scientologist or two. But never with my Mormon relatives. I remember once when I wanted to give a beautiful gift of sculpture to my sister-in-law, and my brother found out it was made by devout Catholic Brother...he said best not to give it. Never figured that one out.

What makes me feel that that the LDS Church MUST be part of this story is because every single character in this drama are Mormons. Do they relate to anybody else who is not Mormon in this entire stream of activity? Melani claims that AxC is so devout. Lori appears to marry 4 non-Mormons. Even our talented and wonderful journalist, Nate Eaton, a Mormon as well, didn't even know of all these weird groups out there. I just hope that Mormons can understand why this is just so confusing to us who are not.

It is a thick thread that pulls everyone together in this whole Netflix drama.

“You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.”

― L. Ron Hubbard

 

[dot...dot...dot]

Nice post - thanks so much! I really appreciate your framing Chad's behavior within the Mormon perspective. I miss the religious content as historical backdrop to the making of a prophet, or the cultural anthropology, if you will. It is so fascinating to me. MOO IMO

There is a Mormon podcast (that I believe generally focuses on fundamental extremists - I haven't listened to other episodes yet) with three episodes dedicated to the Daybell case, not sure I can name it? Anyways, what I liked most about the podcast is that the 'shock and awe' of this case that may be partially attributed to being non-Mormon is absent from the podcast. The general takeaway I got is that Mormon prophets are a dime a dozen, and the female host asks the question why are some of them becoming more violent? (The answer to this surely belongs in an entirely different thread).

I’m guessing the podcast is Year of Polygamy. (Episodes 177 & 180-parts 1 & 2)

 

[Emi]

A year after JJ stayed with them, grandparents have not given up hope | East Idaho News

 

[tresir2012]

About the documents where Webb and Elcox withdraw from Lori's case, it says this...
"This motion is NOT made with respects to Mark L. Means.."
What does that mean?
This is page 1/2 from the motion that Justin Lum shares.
@AZlawyer

Thank you

IMO it means he wasn't withdrawing. He has stayed on as her only attorney and some have speculated he may be doing it pro bono.

 

[tresir2012]

A year after JJ stayed with them, grandparents have not given up hope | East Idaho News

That's a really good article. Here's an extract from near the end:-

“When I saw the Ring doorbell video – that scared me to death,” Kay says. “And then finding out she was telling neighbors that he was her niece’s drug baby? Not her son? Oh my God — that shows me how she was distancing herself from him, maybe make it easier for her to do something to him.”

A Ring doorbell camera captured video of Joshua “JJ” Vallow playing with a friend at a Rexburg townhouse. | Courtesy image
Larry adds, “That’s been the lowest point in all of this — even more hurtful than the death of Charles. How low can you get? I just don’t understand it. … For her to say that — it’s not the person that has a loving capability of a mother. I don’t understand it, and it was absolutely the lowest point of this entire investigation.”

Since Lori’s initial court appearance March 6, the Woodcocks have returned to Louisana. They plan to come back to Idaho for her preliminary hearing and are following developments on the case from their home. They say they appreciate the work of the Rexburg Police Department and the Madison County Prosecutor’s Office and, despite no sign of the children, they believe JJ and Tylee could still be alive.

“I’ll hold out hope until they close the door on my casket. I will never, ever give up the hope that JJ will be returned to us,” Larry says.

Chad Daybell has not been arrested or charged with a crime. The Woodcocks have never met him but say the faster he can “drop Lori like a hot potato,” the better his life will be. They hope he will tell authorities where their missing grandson and his sister are.

“Chad, you’ve had some time to be away from Lori to visit with your children, to visit with your grandchildren, and you have to look into the mirror and ask yourself, ‘Is this worth Lori?’ And I can tell you right now not, ‘No’ but, ‘Hell no,'” Larry says. “Where are the children? Where are the children? Where are the children? That’s all we want to know.” "

 

[CSIDreamer]

A year after JJ stayed with them, grandparents have not given up hope | East Idaho News

Beach wedding clothes search. October. 3rd.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

That's a really good article. Here's an extract from near the end:-

“When I saw the Ring doorbell video – that scared me to death,” Kay says. “And then finding out she was telling neighbors that he was her niece’s drug baby? Not her son? Oh my God — that shows me how she was distancing herself from him, maybe make it easier for her to do something to him.”

A Ring doorbell camera captured video of Joshua “JJ” Vallow playing with a friend at a Rexburg townhouse. | Courtesy image
Larry adds, “That’s been the lowest point in all of this — even more hurtful than the death of Charles. How low can you get? I just don’t understand it. … For her to say that — it’s not the person that has a loving capability of a mother. I don’t understand it, and it was absolutely the lowest point of this entire investigation.”

Since Lori’s initial court appearance March 6, the Woodcocks have returned to Louisana. They plan to come back to Idaho for her preliminary hearing and are following developments on the case from their home. They say they appreciate the work of the Rexburg Police Department and the Madison County Prosecutor’s Office and, despite no sign of the children, they believe JJ and Tylee could still be alive.

“I’ll hold out hope until they close the door on my casket. I will never, ever give up the hope that JJ will be returned to us,” Larry says.

Chad Daybell has not been arrested or charged with a crime. The Woodcocks have never met him but say the faster he can “drop Lori like a hot potato,” the better his life will be. They hope he will tell authorities where their missing grandson and his sister are.

“Chad, you’ve had some time to be away from Lori to visit with your children, to visit with your grandchildren, and you have to look into the mirror and ask yourself, ‘Is this worth Lori?’ And I can tell you right now not, ‘No’ but, ‘Hell no,'” Larry says. “Where are the children? Where are the children? Where are the children? That’s all we want to know.” "

Their travel plans might get restricted due to coronavirus. I don’t know if they will be allowed back into Idaho from Louisiana, a hotbed of coronavirus patients.

 

[tresir2012]

Their travel plans might get restricted due to coronavirus. I don’t know if they will be allowed back into Idaho from Louisiana, a hotbed of coronavirus patients.

I think the Rexburg court is limiting attendees anyway. Anyone who wants to be present must get Supreme court permission I think we saw, due to CV19. Perhaps the court will video it so that Kay and Larry don't need to attend. Not sure about the custody case though. MOO.

 

[watergirl62]

I’m guessing the podcast is Year of Polygamy. (Episodes 177 & 180-parts 1 & 2)

Yes, thanks for saying that. I have had a few posts regarding podcasts deleted, so was treading carefully. Maybe it was the links, or the podcasters, not really sure.

Welcome to Websleuths. This case lured me back after being on walkabout for almost two years.

 

[ajaylee]

If chad was smart he would divorce her, I don't know if he realizes that Lolo is looking at possibly 30 years. I don't think he would want to wait for her, he will be an old man.He should cut his losses and maybe has a chance to meet someone else, unless he too ends up in jail. MOO

Yes and no.

I think he's waiting to see how things play out. Right now, he's a free man. He may think that he's completely off the hook and only LVD is in trouble. If he files for divorce, she may turn on him, and we don't know what she might have on him.

Also....I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps he's considering 'spousal privilege'. If that comes into play, I believe it means he can't be compelled to testify against LVD (and vice versa) as long as they are married.