Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #31

[nhmemorymaker]

.

The only excuse I can see him use to try to explain why he told LE he saw JJ in Oct is that a) he didn't know JJ well and got him confused with some other boy or b) he knew he was lying but he was doing it to protect the kids location because he feared harm to them if they were found. I don't believe either explanation and doubt most jurors will either. Sadly I believe the children were killed last fall, but it's not impossible that Chad doesn't (or didn't) know it when interrogated by police. If that's the case (and I don't think it is) I think Chad would lie just to stick it to LE. IMO they think LE is just another meddling government agency that infringes on their rights and personal freedom.

I think Chad said October because he KNEW that the magic was done in September.... and he wanted to avoid any conversations that might have made him talk about what he was doing in September. If he says October, he can probably have lots of alibis easily found....

 

[Paulas88]

I totally agree, anyone who thinks he doesn't know anything is kidding themselves. I can't help but think of Tami, married to a man for 30 years thinking she knew him and could trust him, how would you have ever know he would be capable of all he has done. It is so scary to think, do we really know anyone?

Because he convinced them his “Visions” was were from, God.

His “visions” aren’t going to hold-up in a court of law, though!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

.

The only excuse I can see him use to try to explain why he told LE he saw JJ in Oct is that a) he didn't know JJ well and got him confused with some other boy or b) he knew he was lying but he was doing it to protect the kids location because he feared harm to them if they were found. I don't believe either explanation and doubt most jurors will either. Sadly I believe the children were killed last fall, but it's not impossible that Chad doesn't (or didn't) know it when interrogated by police. If that's the case (and I don't think it is) I think Chad would lie just to stick it to LE. IMO they think LE is just another meddling government agency that infringes on their rights and personal freedom.

I think Chad said October because he KNEW that the magic was done in September.... and he wanted to avoid any conversations that might have made him talk about what he was doing in September. If he says October, he can probably have lots of alibis easily found....

We had a discussion about it back in thread #14 as this information about the school using Bloomz came out in a MSM news report:

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14

As I recall about the only thing she could have really used it for was private messaging and maybe seen public announcements (such as school holidays or activities) or class assignments. Why she kept accessing it we can only guess, and the best guess is that she was trying to see if people at the school were talking about her or the children.

Now, as our fellow sleuther @securitynerd pointed out in that thread, LE can now glean more information about Lori and what she was or wasn't looking for or trying to do than she could have for whatever she was trying to accomplish.

And people from the school are on the witness list. Who knows...maybe there were a couple of text exchanges early on (as you mentioned..like people talking about her) that will show up on that app. Something tells me we might learn this when these potential witnesses from the school are called.

 

[Paulas88]

I totally agree, anyone who thinks he doesn't know anything is kidding themselves. I can't help but think of Tami, married to a man for 30 years thinking she knew him and could trust him, how would you have ever know he would be capable of all he has done. It is so scary to think, do we really know anyone?

Because he convinced them his “Visions” (from a youth) were from, God.

His “visions” aren’t going to hold-up in a court of law, though!

 

[Nurse Gen]

I totally agree, anyone who thinks he doesn't know anything is kidding themselves. I can't help but think of Tami, married to a man for 30 years thinking she knew him and could trust him, how would you have ever know he would be capable of all he has done. It is so scary to think, do we really know anyone?

IMO I just wonder if Charles did contact Tammy, or if she became suspicious once Chad and Lori began meeting in Rexburg, leading Chad to claim that Tammy had become "possessed". Could Chad have convinced Tammy to drink a solution of powdered malachite and water claiming it was a healing solution? BB mentioned to LE that the cult believed malachite is used as a spiritual weapon when used as a balm or solution. And the symptoms are exactly what Tammy's were reported to be.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjASegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw147s3I2LbFglpLpDJTUkOq

Malachite poisoning?
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I think Chad said October because he KNEW that the magic was done in September.... and he wanted to avoid any conversations that might have made him talk about what he was doing in September. If he says October, he can probably have lots of alibis easily found....

Yes he had to steer clear of September because he wasn't supposed to be on the scene before Tammy's death in October. Tammy's burial was when he felt Tammy help him reconnect with Lori. And then Melani moved to Rexburg at the beginning of November and the children were already gone. So October it was. He must have struggled to remember Lori's lies while keeping on top of his own, in that moment of being asked when he last saw JJ.

moo

 

[squareandrabbet]

Yeah, that's the conclusion I've come to. I think Mr. Means is way out of his depth. I'm sure he is struggling to represent his client to the best of his ability, but not being a criminal attorney he's probably doing a lot of faking it till he makes it - including seeing and borrowing from what real criminal attorneys (those that are against his client) are doing and saying. I hate to say it but I think Lori deserves better representation, like her former counsel. Unfortunately I suspect they may have dropped out because of Mr. Means and butting heads with him. All MOO.

lawyers plagiarize other lawyers’ phrasing, and cannibalize their own work nonstop, I agree with this, heh.

My thoughts are very similar to what you and Tortoise put forward. I have some comments and questions for explorations' sake:

- earlier on we had a neighbor here who said since it was just after the 4th of July, there were a lot of neighborhood complaints of ppl still setting off fireworks on a neighborhood social media group (I assume something like Nextdoor). They stated there was even a complaint that morning of fireworks, but then later discussion that there had been a shooting.
-no clue about Bailey but I think it's of note that the day the purse was stolen he was in the car but did not go into the school. I imagine this was the norm (as opposed to what happened the day Charles was killed).
-I cannot once remember my father being so angry I would describe him as "ballistic". Still, going ballistic approx once every 4-5 years, does not seem unreasonable, from the standpoint of an adult losing their temper. But having to leave the property to stay in a hotel does seem extreme (either as a response, or as a legitimate need to extremely scary behavior). I think this happened, but I can't decide if Lori was being melodramatic with the kids, or Charles could occasionally get scary. I'm curious how this plays into Tylee's perception of him.
- Dealing with a crazy person who was potentially threatening the well-being of myself or my children could certainly make me go ballistic. I don't fault Charles for his actions. If anything, he seems to have restrained himself. He didn't lash out at Tylee, he simply (angrily) disarmed her. He didn't smash the bat around the house in a threatening way. He didn't chase Alex down the hall, and he didn't smash the bedroom door in with the bat. Alex was barely touched, by the looks of his "injury". It doesn't even seem like Charles defended himself from the gun, frankly. He wasn't running or lunging, from the location of his body. (This makes my heart hurt).
-Why would Tylee grab the bat? I get she had used it before at her uncle's house, but it seems like she'd never actually had a need for it? And did she not recognize the voices of her mom and Charles? I think Lori poisoned her mind, but I still have a hard time imagining grabbing a bat against a parent who has essentially never seemed threatening before? It seems like Charles and Tylee never really got along, for whatever reason. Part of my evidence for this is that she and Kay were not close. Could they have had many, many yelling blowouts? And that, combined with Lori pushing a violent narrative, had Tylee feeling a need for physical defense? Or had she actually felt physically threatened by him before?
- I'm not trying to make Charles out as a bad guy. There is no evidence that he was. But I do assume he was a normal human. I'm just trying to figure out how Tylee felt the need for physical protection against a parent she's known for 15 years without some previous experience. As far as I can tell, she was more likely to need it against Alex. He had attacked her biological father and been jailed for it. Could she have brought the bat out against Alex? Or did she think of Alex as a protector?
-The setup couldn't (?) have relied on Tylee coming out with the bat, right? So what was the actual plan? Tylee would be asleep? Send Tylee out with something for JJ?

in one of the Colby interviews, he did say that Tylee thought she was ‘the parent’ to JJ and would often butt heads with Charles on this point.

he also said he had never seen Charles blazingly angry.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Catching up so I hope this hasn't already been discussed but I noticed there are two park rangers on the potential witness list. Is this related to Yellowstone and what could they be testifying about?

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Upon more pondering, I think whether he takes the 5th or babbles on, his presence won't help her case at all.
Jmo

This made me snort right out loud. I completely agree that Chad’s presence can offer zero help. How could it? There is absolutely nothing compelling about a dude who looks like a tired Homer Simpson and speaks in a low-pitched strangled Kermit voice!! Just put him away already!

 

[MTW2011]

Catching up so I hope this hasn't already been discussed but I noticed there are two park rangers on the potential witness list. Is this related to Yellowstone and what could they be testifying about?

One of the Parks employees is a Chief Ranger for Yellowstone has worked on many murders/freak accidents/death by bear/missing persons cases in his role there. To me, even if he doesn’t have some bombshell (which I don’t think is likely anyway), I found it interesting that they were mentioning someone “higher level” who has had experience with investigating accidents at the Park.

 

[tresir2012]

MOO
Not being able to sleuth the person who may or may not have the same initials as the illustrator of some books published by Chad, I seriously doubt the GB person in that article is telling the truth. This GB works for (R)JM and CD and grew up near LV and went to college in, of all the places on the planet,...Rexburg, ID. Just coincidences?? And that is who CV would turn to for help? Can this get stranger?

Just to clarify, is this the bit you think is untrue?

"GB, a friend of Charles, was a witness to the petition, He spoke with police.

"[Lori] has been getting into some really religious things that troubled him," said GB, a friend of Charles, to police officers. "The relationship was a bit odd."

GB also told a sergeant that he listened into Charles and Lori's last argument over the phone.

“She said I will destroy you, but it was done in a very subjective way that it couldn’t have -- it didn't necessarily come across as a direct threat to him or the children or herself," said GB.

The report also reveals police tried to pick Vallow up for an emergency mental health petition filed by Charles, but couldn't find her."

 

[tresir2012]

RSBM

Does this add up for anyone? In January LE is saying their investigation into a murder in early July is being hampered because the shooter died 20 weeks after that murder? There is no physical evidence left. Eyewitness accounts get worse with time. What were they waiting for?

Could CPD have been monitoring AxC's phone for that long? That seems like too much time for a judge to agree to a search warrant.

He confessed on phone, on camera and in a statement to killing Charles, so since his death, and the children's disappearance, there is no one other than Lori who knows what happened. Therefore I cannot see this going anywhere now. I bet they did not even know where AxC was between Sept and Dec.

 

[CuriousQuiet1]

Just to clarify, is this the bit you think is untrue?

"GB, a friend of Charles, was a witness to the petition, He spoke with police.

"[Lori] has been getting into some really religious things that troubled him," said GB, a friend of Charles, to police officers. "The relationship was a bit odd."

GB also told a sergeant that he listened into Charles and Lori's last argument over the phone.

“She said I will destroy you, but it was done in a very subjective way that it couldn’t have -- it didn't necessarily come across as a direct threat to him or the children or herself," said GB.

The report also reveals police tried to pick Vallow up for an emergency mental health petition filed by Charles, but couldn't find her."

Yes. I think GB was in cahoots with LV. Too many common connections between LV and GB, I don't like those coincidences.

CV thought GB would be a good witness to how wacko LV would be on a phone call and what happens? GB claims LV wasn't very wacko. Could it be GB tipped off LV that he was being asked to listen in so she dialed down the crazy talk?

Also CV has asked GB to be a witness and GB admits LV said "I will destroy you" but he throws in a heavy bit of denial about what she intended. "I will destroy you" is a direct threat. How can a direct threat not "come across as a direct threat"?

Last point is if CV wanted a witness to how odd LV's religious/cult views were why would he have recruited someone with a bunch of possible ties to those cult views? Why didn't he have AdC or a work colleague or his divorce attorney or his sister, some one known to not be in the cult, be his witness? It doesn't smell right to me.

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Court TV is going to be doing a live Q&A in 3 hours time.

I've no idea if it's going to be uploaded to youtube afterwards so some might want to tune in live to see it.

I have a question, but I won't be able to post it. I'm interested to know, if they ever get around to charging them with all these murders, if separate trials will have to take place in the jurisdictions relevant to the deaths, meaning the juries won't get to hear the whole picture. I know one murder doesn't necessarily mean a different death was murder, and it could be prejudicial, but for argument's sake if one murder took place to get rid of a witness to another murder, how do they tie it together, especially if the different trials haven't yet taken place. I imagine it might be similar to the Robert Durst trial, where they are alleging the murder of Susan Berman was to hide the unproven murder of his wife Kathy.

 

[divineappt]

And don’t forget the nasty red lipstick!

New wedding photos . . .

 

[Trouble1321075]

If he's still with her by the time he's called to the stand, he will say nothing that could be interpreted accusatory towards Lori. IMO he definitely won't claim that the kids are safe, because that would imply knowledge on his part.
I'm not sure how they could explain hiding the kids before anyone was even looking for them (not demanding custody, to which they weren't entitled anyway). Are the kids safer in hiding than with Lori? If they hid JJ from Kay out of concern (but actually out of spite and revenge), who did Tylee need protecting from? Colby?

Im hesitant to even say what im about to say because i dont want them to get any help from me.

The explanation i can see them trying is that tylee kidnapped JJ and Lori has remained silent to protect Tylee from getting in trouble and in the hooes that she comes to her senses and comes home with JJ at some point.
Thats the kind of excuse, as flimsy as it is, covers their basis.
The police need evidence that a specific crime took place or was being planned by them.
Whats frustrating me is that there is 2 missing children, 3 dead people, 1 attempted homicide all surrounding this case and after 6 months of investigation the police still dont have enough to charge them with more than they have yet?
I find it hard to believe these people covered their tracks so well that they didnt leave evidence behind. Wheres the urgency to bring justice?

 

[Drc40]

Those wondering how/why Means is on this case and not the other two competent lawyers can answer their questions with one word, money. Means is the dollar store lawyer and all Chad and Lolo can afford or all Chad is willing to pay. The billable hours Means is creating are astronomical. Even with Dollar Store Means his expenses alone will run 10’s of thousands. The case won’t be thrown out due to his incompetence. A verdict may be overturned because of it but the charges won’t be vacated.

Carry on, stay safe and best wishes.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Chad Daybell and 47 others may be called as witnesses in Lori Daybell's court hearings | East Idaho News
Chad Daybell and 47 others may be called as witnesses in Lori Daybell’s court hearings

Eric Grossarth, EastIdahoNews.com

Daybell Case

Published at 10:23 am, April 23, 2020 | Updated at 10:23 am, April 23, 2020

***Read the comments under this article on East Idaho News site...

Can't access the comments. Anything you can share?

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

On the list of witnesses I still

Listing the prosecution's witnesses, from the response to request for discovery. (name misspellings corrected by me)

a. Det. Ron Ball, RPD
b. Det. Ray Hermosillo, RPD
c. Det. Dave Stubbs, RPD
d. Det. Chuck Kunsaitis, RPD
e. Det. Dave Hope, RPD
f. Det. Rick Schmitt, RPD
g. Det. Randy Reese, RPD
h. Officer Kellen Whetten, RPD
i. Det. Chad Cataluna, Kauai PD
j. Det. Ryan Pillar, Gilbert PD
k. Det. Nate Moffat, Chandler PD
l. Melanie Gibb
m. David Warwick
n. Chad Daybell (see IRE 504(d)(1))
o. Julie Wilcox
p. Larry Woodcock
q. Kay Woodcock
r. Adam Cox
s. Zackary Cox
t. Brandon Boudreaux
u. Melani Pawlowski
v. Ian Pawlowski
w. Leah Bernard
x. Seth Bernard
y. SAC Chris Smith, National Park Service
z. Deputy Chief Ranger Chris Flesch, National Park Service
aa. Sidney Woodbury
bb. Travis Homer, FBI
cc. Ricky Wright, FBI
dd. Michael Douglass, FBI
ee. Mark Saari Social Security Investigator
ff. Jason Gwilliam
gg. Colby Ryan
hh. Jack Daybell
ii. Sheila Daybell
jj. Teresa Christensen, 2nd Grade Teacher
kk. Joshua Wilson, Kennedy Elementary School Principal
ll. Randy Lords, Madison School District
mm. Julie Black
nn. Dale Guthrie, MD
oo. Gary Auxier, MD
pp. Tim Jacks, MO
qq. Robert Minicola, Kauai Beach Resorts
rr. Shawn Derrick, Blue Sky Property
ss. Greg Krause
tt. Traci Singleton, IDHW
uu. Audrey Barattiero
vv. Reverend Colin Moore, AKA Kahu Coco
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR33-20-0302/Response to Request for Discovery-042020.pdf

NOTE - CHAD DAYBELL

I.R.E. 504 (d) (1)

Idaho Rules of Evidence Rule 504. Husband-Wife Privilege.

(a) Definition. A communication is "confidential" if it is made during marriage privately by any person to the person's spouse, and is not intended for disclosure to any other person.



(b) General rule of privilege. A person has a privilege to prevent testimony as to any confidential communication between the person and his or her spouse made during the marriage.



(c) Who may claim the privilege. The privilege may be claimed by the person or by the spouse on behalf of the person, or by the lawyer for the person on behalf of the person. The authority of the spouse or lawyer to do so is presumed in the absence of evidence to the contrary.



(d) Exceptions. There is no privilege under this rule:



(1) Child related communications. In a criminal or civil action or proceeding as to a communication relevant to an issue concerning the physical, mental or emotional condition of or injury to a child, or concerning the welfare of a child including, but not limited to the abuse, abandonment or neglect of a child.

I.R.E. 504. Husband-Wife Privilege. | Supreme Court

Would a witness be listed if they were considered hostile? I am puzzled that some names are absent?

 

[carbuff]

Chad doesn't strike me as smart enough to be the mastermind of anything other than his own fantasies. If there is a cult with more than a handful of followers, I suspect we'll find Chad is just the front man, and someone else is pulling his strings. Or was. His puppet master may well have abandoned him to twist in the wind. Or should I say get squashed in the earthquake, swept away by a tsunami or buried in lava & volcanic ash?

Yeah. Exactly.

I read a bunch of Chad's online stuff very early on, before it got taken down, and I remember reading one of his early novels many years back, and I definitely formed the impression that he was not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. Definitely a dweeb. Certainly not overflowing with the kind of charisma it takes to be a cult leader.

But the kind of person who becomes a cult leader isn't likely to want somebody else to front for them. They want to lead, not be the power behind the throne.

I keep wondering how dim he is--like did Lori tell him that JJ was her brother's kid, so when he saw him in Alex's apartment in October, he didn't think anything of it? Is he dumb enough--especially awash in hormones--that LV or AC could have killed Tammy and convinced him it was natural?

I dunno. Most likely it's LV pulling him around, and everything is the way it seems. But I just can't get the guy who wrote those things to fit with the cult leader he seems to have become.