Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #31

[Catareeka]

In my opinion, Chad knows about the children and participated in whatever happened to them.

That's my thoughts as well.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Those wondering how/why Means is on this case and not the other two competent lawyers can answer their questions with one word, money. Means is the dollar store lawyer and all Chad and Lolo can afford or all Chad is willing to pay. The billable hours Means is creating are astronomical. Even with Dollar Store Means his expenses alone will run 10’s of thousands. The case won’t be thrown out due to his incompetence. A verdict may be overturned because of it but the charges won’t be vacated.

Carry on, stay safe and best wishes.

Maybe. But just maybe, Mr. Means has an inside track to LE, or judges, or prosecutors. Maybe they dated in law school. Or studied together. Married the sister of whoever is important.
Don't dismiss him just yet. Hold that thought....

 

[LDS social scientist]

Yes. I think GB was in cahoots with LV. Too many common connections between LV and GB, I don't like those coincidences.

CV thought GB would be a good witness to how wacko LV would be on a phone call and what happens? GB claims LV wasn't very wacko. Could it be GB tipped off LV that he was being asked to listen in so she dialed down the crazy talk?

Also CV has asked GB to be a witness and GB admits LV said "I will destroy you" but he throws in a heavy bit of denial about what she intended. "I will destroy you" is a direct threat. How can a direct threat not "come across as a direct threat"?

Last point is if CV wanted a witness to how odd LV's religious/cult views were why would he have recruited someone with a bunch of possible ties to those cult views? Why didn't he have AdC or a work colleague or his divorce attorney or his sister, some one known to not be in the cult, be his witness? It doesn't smell right to me.

MOO

I'll take a stab on the last part of your question-- but it's completely speculative:

Maybe CV wasn't thinking this was a cult. "Cult" brings up images of autocratic leaders, mind control, and a strongly structured community. Maybe CV wasn't at that point in thinking about what Lori was involving herself in. He just felt it was super strange, perhaps. Maybe all he know was that Lori had taken to Daybell's books; he may not have known that there was any more structure to this than some random authors/speakers pontificating about the end times.

If CV was at all sincere in his LDS beliefs, it would make some sense to me that he didn't turn to someone outside of Mormonism for advice on this issue. After all, plenty of people are willing to call every variety of Mormonism a cult, and so that wouldn't have helped in a possible attempt to distinguish between mainstream Mormon beliefs and what he was worried Lori was involved with. It would make more sense to turn to someone he trusted as a solid, devout Mormon.

And maybe he felt that's what GB was. There was some speculation earlier that GB might have functioned in some kind of pastoral role to CV and perhaps Lori. I have no idea if this is true (it never ceases to amaze me that we don't have any LDS insiders from the Chandler area on this board to try to figure some of these things out), but I'm guessing that CV turned to GB for advice about Lori in part because CV considered GB a solid, trustworthy, devout Mormon -- someone who he thought could recognize the difference between mainstream and non-mainstream Mormon views.

And who knows? Maybe GB fits that description. Maybe he offered helpful advice to CV at times, despite failing CV in this case by failing to raise red flags about what Lori said on the phone.

To return to the issue of cults: whatever we call Lori/Chad's circle now, I think it's important to recognize that in some LDS contexts, the line between devout and cultish is not easy to identify. Mainstream Mormonism encourages its members to study scriptures and prophecies more deeply, to cultivate more frequent occurrence of being "in tune" with God's spirit, to expect more profound personal spiritual experiences, to gain more spiritual insight, and to serve more devotedly and zealously within the church structure. Someone who possesses these attributes is generally seen as a good, strong Mormonism.

But these are also the motivations that lead many LDS to become intrigued with the kind of "extra" knowledge/insight/power promised by Chad and Lori's fellow speakers, bloggers, podcasters, authors. I think these groups are very good at presenting themselves not as departing from the mainstream, but rather as exploring the religion ever more deeply and powerfully. (This appeal, I think is especially strong to those whose LDS beliefs are informed by strong doses of -- usually right-wing -- anti-governmental politics. I suspect that a good deal of this potent religious/political brew was being passed around LDS strongholds in the SE Phoenix metro area, though I wish we had an insider to give us better info on this. Anyway, I digress ...) And some of them very effectively hide their extreme beliefs from those involved in their everyday lives, as we've seen.

My point is that CV may have had no sense that there was something we now identify as a cult to which GB (may or may not have) had connections. All he may have thought is that GB appeared to be a good, strong, faithful Latter-day Saint. Even if CV knew that GB had illustrated JM's books, there may not have been any reason for that to ring alarm bells. As best as we know JM had a good reputation within the larger LDS community in the Mesa area.

We ultimately don't know what GB thinks about Lori's beliefs/actions. We don't know if he's in cahoots with Lori. We don't know if he's a fellow traveler. We don't know if he was persuaded to illustrate JM's books unwittingly (since those books very likely don't go into what we consider to be strange and cult-like in JM's reported actions/beliefs). In drawing links between people involved in this case, I think we need to be careful about attributing equivalent beliefs, knowledge to each person along the chain.

Anyway, that's just one possibility. There's a hundred different scenarios related to GB that wouldn't surprise me. We just don't know enough about him and the Chandler LDS community to really figure this one out at this point.

 

[indicolite22]

It do think that Charles considered GB as someone trustworthy, if not authority. If he suspected that GB was friends with Lori's friends like MG, I'm not sure if he'd still have confided in him. On the other hand, Charles asked MG: "What has gotten into her (Lori)?" implying that he considered MG normal.
As far as Chad's group's beliefs, wouldn't the reincarnation talk alone (multiple past lives, including on other planets, being reincarnations of or married to impotant religious figures in the past) raise red flags with their followers that that wasn't LDS compliant any more? After all, Julie Rowe wasn't the only person from that circle that was excommunicated. Hector Sosa asked his now defunct forum members to hide their beliefs in order to avoid excommunication.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Catching up so I hope this hasn't already been discussed but I noticed there are two park rangers on the potential witness list. Is this related to Yellowstone and what could they be testifying about?

Evidence has to be authenticated. "Yes, this is true and accurate video from the records of the Park on September 9, 2019".

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I'll take a stab on the last part of your question-- but it's completely speculative:

Maybe CV wasn't thinking this was a cult. "Cult" brings up images of autocratic leaders, mind control, and a strongly structured community. Maybe CV wasn't at that point in thinking about what Lori was involving herself in. He just felt it was super strange, perhaps. Maybe all he know was that Lori had taken to Daybell's books; he may not have known that there was any more structure to this than some random authors/speakers pontificating about the end times.

If CV was at all sincere in his LDS beliefs, it would make some sense to me that he didn't turn to someone outside of Mormonism for advice on this issue. After all, plenty of people are willing to call every variety of Mormonism a cult, and so that wouldn't have helped in a possible attempt to distinguish between mainstream Mormon beliefs and what he was worried Lori was involved with. It would make more sense to turn to someone he trusted as a solid, devout Mormon.

And maybe he felt that's what GB was. There was some speculation earlier that GB might have functioned in some kind of pastoral role to CV and perhaps Lori. I have no idea if this is true (it never ceases to amaze me that we don't have any LDS insiders from the Chandler area on this board to try to figure some of these things out), but I'm guessing that CV turned to GB for advice about Lori in part because CV considered GB a solid, trustworthy, devout Mormon -- someone who he thought could recognize the difference between mainstream and non-mainstream Mormon views.

And who knows? Maybe GB fits that description. Maybe he offered helpful advice to CV at times, despite failing CV in this case by failing to raise red flags about what Lori said on the phone.

To return to the issue of cults: whatever we call Lori/Chad's circle now, I think it's important to recognize that in some LDS contexts, the line between devout and cultish is not easy to identify. Mainstream Mormonism encourages its members to study scriptures and prophecies more deeply, to cultivate more frequent occurrence of being "in tune" with God's spirit, to expect more profound personal spiritual experiences, to gain more spiritual insight, and to serve more devotedly and zealously within the church structure. Someone who possesses these attributes is generally seen as a good, strong Mormonism.

But these are also the motivations that lead many LDS to become intrigued with the kind of "extra" knowledge/insight/power promised by Chad and Lori's fellow speakers, bloggers, podcasters, authors. I think these groups are very good at presenting themselves not as departing from the mainstream, but rather as exploring the religion ever more deeply and powerfully. (This appeal, I think is especially strong to those whose LDS beliefs are informed by strong doses of -- usually right-wing -- anti-governmental politics. I suspect that a good deal of this potent religious/political brew was being passed around LDS strongholds in the SE Phoenix metro area, though I wish we had an insider to give us better info on this. Anyway, I digress ...) And some of them very effectively hide their extreme beliefs from those involved in their everyday lives, as we've seen.

My point is that CV may have had no sense that there was something we now identify as a cult to which GB (may or may not have) had connections. All he may have thought is that GB appeared to be a good, strong, faithful Latter-day Saint. Even if CV knew that GB had illustrated JM's books, there may not have been any reason for that to ring alarm bells. As best as we know JM had a good reputation within the larger LDS community in the Mesa area.

We ultimately don't know what GB thinks about Lori's beliefs/actions. We don't know if he's in cahoots with Lori. We don't know if he's a fellow traveler. We don't know if he was persuaded to illustrate JM's books unwittingly (since those books very likely don't go into what we consider to be strange and cult-like in JM's reported actions/beliefs). In drawing links between people involved in this case, I think we need to be careful about attributing equivalent beliefs, knowledge to each person along the chain.

Anyway, that's just one possibility. There's a hundred different scenarios related to GB that wouldn't surprise me. We just don't know enough about him and the Chandler LDS community to really figure this one out at this point.

Wonderful information, as always. Two different themes here, so I am just going to add my opinions to the GB allegiances, first. I feel GB would have been an absolute go-to person for Charles. I believe that Charles was a solid lds convert, and trusted people within the Church to help. Especially if GB knew them both, Charles could plea to GB because he would understand the differences in Lori over this period of time. And early in 2019, not much had really happened yet. Other than JR, no horrible acts had yet transpired. And clearly LR would have hidden what she knew about JR with Charles. I imagine that GB has been greatly conflicted. I believe he does have leanings towards what he was learning via JM...but was probably quiet about it because of his standing within the ward or stake. By now, though, I think he would have figured out how to be an upstanding witness, within total keeping with the mainstream church...so who knows what he would share with so much time to carve out his responses. jmo moo moo. But I do believe that GB has been in conflict over what he could have done and yet what he needs to do to keep his standing within the Church.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I'll take a stab on the last part of your question-- but it's completely speculative:

Maybe CV wasn't thinking this was a cult. "Cult" brings up images of autocratic leaders, mind control, and a strongly structured community. Maybe CV wasn't at that point in thinking about what Lori was involving herself in. He just felt it was super strange, perhaps. Maybe all he know was that Lori had taken to Daybell's books; he may not have known that there was any more structure to this than some random authors/speakers pontificating about the end times.

If CV was at all sincere in his LDS beliefs, it would make some sense to me that he didn't turn to someone outside of Mormonism for advice on this issue. After all, plenty of people are willing to call every variety of Mormonism a cult, and so that wouldn't have helped in a possible attempt to distinguish between mainstream Mormon beliefs and what he was worried Lori was involved with. It would make more sense to turn to someone he trusted as a solid, devout Mormon.

And maybe he felt that's what GB was. There was some speculation earlier that GB might have functioned in some kind of pastoral role to CV and perhaps Lori. I have no idea if this is true (it never ceases to amaze me that we don't have any LDS insiders from the Chandler area on this board to try to figure some of these things out), but I'm guessing that CV turned to GB for advice about Lori in part because CV considered GB a solid, trustworthy, devout Mormon -- someone who he thought could recognize the difference between mainstream and non-mainstream Mormon views.

And who knows? Maybe GB fits that description. Maybe he offered helpful advice to CV at times, despite failing CV in this case by failing to raise red flags about what Lori said on the phone.

To return to the issue of cults: whatever we call Lori/Chad's circle now, I think it's important to recognize that in some LDS contexts, the line between devout and cultish is not easy to identify. Mainstream Mormonism encourages its members to study scriptures and prophecies more deeply, to cultivate more frequent occurrence of being "in tune" with God's spirit, to expect more profound personal spiritual experiences, to gain more spiritual insight, and to serve more devotedly and zealously within the church structure. Someone who possesses these attributes is generally seen as a good, strong Mormonism.

But these are also the motivations that lead many LDS to become intrigued with the kind of "extra" knowledge/insight/power promised by Chad and Lori's fellow speakers, bloggers, podcasters, authors. I think these groups are very good at presenting themselves not as departing from the mainstream, but rather as exploring the religion ever more deeply and powerfully. (This appeal, I think is especially strong to those whose LDS beliefs are informed by strong doses of -- usually right-wing -- anti-governmental politics. I suspect that a good deal of this potent religious/political brew was being passed around LDS strongholds in the SE Phoenix metro area, though I wish we had an insider to give us better info on this. Anyway, I digress ...) And some of them very effectively hide their extreme beliefs from those involved in their everyday lives, as we've seen.

My point is that CV may have had no sense that there was something we now identify as a cult to which GB (may or may not have) had connections. All he may have thought is that GB appeared to be a good, strong, faithful Latter-day Saint. Even if CV knew that GB had illustrated JM's books, there may not have been any reason for that to ring alarm bells. As best as we know JM had a good reputation within the larger LDS community in the Mesa area.

We ultimately don't know what GB thinks about Lori's beliefs/actions. We don't know if he's in cahoots with Lori. We don't know if he's a fellow traveler. We don't know if he was persuaded to illustrate JM's books unwittingly (since those books very likely don't go into what we consider to be strange and cult-like in JM's reported actions/beliefs). In drawing links between people involved in this case, I think we need to be careful about attributing equivalent beliefs, knowledge to each person along the chain.

Anyway, that's just one possibility. There's a hundred different scenarios related to GB that wouldn't surprise me. We just don't know enough about him and the Chandler LDS community to really figure this one out at this point.

The second theme, that I feel you discuss in your post, is that hazy line between mainstream beliefs with the encouragement to study scripture and prophesies that morphs out in new and radical directions.

We do have a great number of people on this thread with very devout mainstream belief and understanding. And I do remember that some are definitely from that part of Arizona. But I don't see many of them in these "quieter days" of this case.

Some folks were very uncomfortable with the discussion of these more eccentric channels of belief, saying they have nothing to do with the pure and righteous teachings of the Church. I sense that some were truly offended by some of us who wanted to understand the motivations and gradual travelling from mainstream to the extremes. Other members who posted, really seem to understand both sides of that fine line, and have added great knowledge.

Your words well define my brother and all his second family in Gilbert: LDS beliefs are informed by strong doses of -- usually right-wing -- anti-governmental politics. I suspect that a good deal of this potent religious/political brew was being passed around LDS strongholds in the SE Phoenix metro area.

But their devotion to the LDS Church would never deviate from the hierarchical Leadership within the church. He is definitely in the camp of being offended, and uncomfortable, with discussion that accepts these extensions of belief.

 

[utahobserver]

Nate Eaton - Reporter
6 hrs ·
So many of you have asked about this ******** account. We checked. It’s fake. It was not set up by Chad Daybell but someone pretending to be him. Please let your friends know.

Well whoever had to take their $10 back. I see that Chad still has Sean Bartholick as his lawyer. Sean, always putting what is in the best interests of the children first. Is specializing in “cult” law a thing? This case has ground to a near halt. I look forward to the wheels of justice moving again soon. Hopefully at whiplash speed. So much time has passed, the kids need to be found.
https://kutv.com/news/local/100-million--claiming-to-be-set-up-by-chad-daybell-is-fake

 

[JosefZ]

Evidence has to be authenticated. "Yes, this is true and accurate video from the records of the Park on September 9, 2019".

IIRC, they visited the park on Sept. 8, 2019, a Sunday. If you look at the stills of the group in YNP it shows cloud cover. Monday was much clearer. I know this because I’ve spent quite a bit of time on this website in the hopes I’d see them or AxC’s truck.

YNP Upper Geyser Basin Static Webcam Archive - September 8th, 2019

This website shows archived video from several different camera locations in YNP.

MOO

 

[JosefZ]

IIRC, they visited the park on Sept. 8, 2019, a Sunday. If you look at the stills of the group in YNP it shows cloud cover. Monday was much clearer. I know this because I’ve spent quite a bit of time on this website in the hopes I’d see them or AxC’s truck.

YNP Upper Geyser Basin Static Webcam Archive - September 8th, 2019

This website shows archived video from several different camera locations in YNP.

MOO

I want to add that YNP just sent us a notice that they’ll be closed to camping until June 15, which wiped out our five day stay at the end of May. We were really into assisting in any kind of search that ma happen. We’re close to the park, so we’ll be willing if and when he need arises. MOO

 

[Bellat]

One of the Parks employees is a Chief Ranger for Yellowstone has worked on many murders/freak accidents/death by bear/missing persons cases in his role there. To me, even if he doesn’t have some bombshell (which I don’t think is likely anyway), I found it interesting that they were mentioning someone “higher level” who has had experience with investigating accidents at the Park.

This makes me think that LE is pretty convinced that Tylee didn’t leave the park that day moo

 

[CSIDreamer]

I want to add that YNP just sent us a notice that they’ll be closed to camping until June 15, which wiped out our five day stay at the end of May. We were really into assisting in any kind of search that ma happen. We’re close to the park, so we’ll be willing if and when he need arises. MOO

That is so good of you. Thank you!

 

[Bellat]

It do think that Charles considered GB as someone trustworthy, if not authority. If he suspected that GB was friends with Lori's friends like MG, I'm not sure if he'd still have confided in him. On the other hand, Charles asked MG: "What has gotten into her (Lori)?" implying that he considered MG normal.
As far as Chad's group's beliefs, wouldn't the reincarnation talk alone (multiple past lives, including on other planets, being reincarnations of or married to impotant religious figures in the past) raise red flags with their followers that that wasn't LDS compliant any more? After all, Julie Rowe wasn't the only person from that circle that was excommunicated. Hector Sosa asked his now defunct forum members to hide their beliefs in order to avoid excommunication.

I agree. What I don’t get is....since their beliefs are quite different than mainstream LDS...why do they care if they are excommunicated? That kind of confuses me....

 

[SeattleStew]

Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

Uh, just wow.

 

[Diddian]

I agree. What I don’t get is....since their beliefs are quite different than mainstream LDS...why do they care if they are excommunicated? That kind of confuses me....

$$$, which I suspect is a significant motivator in nearly all their actions.

Fear of excommunication - and learning one's church considers these false prophets - likely scares away paying subscribers.

 

[Bree68]

Yes. There is "digital evidence" linking Alex to Tammy in some way. See below.

"Kim Powell on Twitter: "#wherearethekids: Sources tell CBS News there is digital evidence that links Alex Cox to Tammy Daybell's death. Her autopsy results are still pending. Alex died in December before he could ever be questioned. #azfamily Sources: Alex Cox may be linked to Tammy Daybell's death Kim Powell on Twitter" / Twitter" Twitter

Alex could have been questioned . The whole situation appeared to be off. I realize that the public did not see the whole ordeal on body cam, however we seen enough to know that the situation smelled of fish.. IMO from the lack of injury to Alex Cox to the cleaning up of the blood from Charles this was an ambush against Charles. We can only hope that LE was on to them and Lori receives the punishment for Charles' untimely death. I also hope that LE spoke with the neighbors and were able to get more incriminating information about the argument between Lori and Alex as well as information on the shooting and where the children were.

 

[BreeCherie]

MB's post just makes me believe she likes all the attention, why would you publicly post something like that?

 

[CSIDreamer]

I agree. What I don’t get is....since their beliefs are quite different than mainstream LDS...why do they care if they are excommunicated? That kind of confuses me....

They need access to the temples, jmo. So they want to stay in good enough to get that temple recommend. Jmo

 

[FindingJoLee]

If he's still with her by the time he's called to the stand, he will say nothing that could be interpreted accusatory towards Lori. IMO he definitely won't claim that the kids are safe, because that would imply knowledge on his part.
I'm not sure how they could explain hiding the kids before anyone was even looking for them (not demanding custody, to which they weren't entitled anyway). Are the kids safer in hiding than with Lori? If they hid JJ from Kay out of concern (but actually out of spite and revenge), who did Tylee need protecting from? Colby?

If the children are so unsafe that they have had to go into hiding, why didn't their mother go into hiding with them? How is she safe, when they are in danger?

 

[CSIDreamer]

If the children are so unsafe that they have had to go into hiding, why didn't their mother go into hiding with them? How is she safe, when they are in danger?

And who are they both in danger from? Jmo

Let's not forget, LE wasn't even aware of Tylee until they went looking for JJ. Jmo