Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

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I still find it harder to believe that the initiative to kill the children came from Lori. Tylee had nothing to do with the Woodcocks. She allegedly didn't witness Charles being shot. With his prophet status Chad was calling the shots. Zombie declarations came from him.
Yeah, I don't really buy that any of this was revenge. It was a familicide pact, of sorts. They wanted to get clear of their "baggage" (from their selfish viewpoint). They would not have been killed without her OK. As others have pointed out, the two of them are a dangerous combination. They are capable of doing evil together that neither would have been able to pull off separately. They provide the right context, motivation, and permission/justification for each other's actions to make it "OK" to do terrible things. Codependent murderers. Unclear if either of them was the shot-caller. JMO
 
MG was a new friend to Lori in 2018, if Lori said that .. it was words to bolster the credibility of statement. Moo
I think it was like this- I was confused at first too...

melanie said that Lori told her (Told her this in 2018 or 2019 that Tylee became a zombie when she was 12 or 13. (She didn’t tell her when tylee was actually 12 or 13- she told her after the fact)
Make sense?
 
Sorry, I'm a newb: when you say "women's center", do you mean "women's detention center"? My first thought from the wording was a women's shelter, so just making sure. You're referring to wherever LVD is being held?
I believe so, yes.
 
Warning——-




Yes sadly. I was actually thinking about how they roast a pig for a luau in what’s called a kalua.
The pit oven you cook a pig in is called an "imu." Kalua means to "cause to be in a pit" (lua means pit and the prefix ka makes it causative.) Because of kalua pig being such a common dish the term has come to mean "baked" as well. The first "a" in kalua should have a line (kahako) over it. I have a Hawaiian keyboard enabled but it does not seem to work in this forum.

Those bricks look like plain old concrete blocks. They would not be the best thing to make a hot fire in.
 
Sorry, I'm a newb: when you say "women's center", do you mean "women's detention center"? My first thought from the wording was a women's shelter, so just making sure. You're referring to wherever LVD is being held?
Yes sorry! I have just been shortening it as I update. I’ll start using the full name as not to confuse others who follow along
 
We have no idea what really happened, what Chad saw, what he really did etc. MOO

Taking all of this with a big Chad-sized grain of salt, I believe the original retelling I read was that he said she'd had a coughing fit before going to bed. And that the sitting up and falling out of bed was later on. This is from memory, so challenge me or correct me at will :)
 
Well, I'm not prepared to offer a specific theory with names, but I'll make some observations about what one might look like.

First, anyone who has experience with clandestine operations, like running an agent in the field or an informant in the middle of a criminal conspiracy, will be able to tell any number of stories just like those you mentioned. The agent runner may be skilled in the dark arts, but the agents are very often doofuses. As a general rule, strong, competent, self-assured individuals don't get easily manipulated into betraying their country or their friends. So the fact that those "on the point" are clumsy is not evidence that they are free from manipulation.

Second, what was the higher purpose? My guess is a it was a million bucks to spend on some organizational purpose.

So (still guessing) imagine that a clandestine or semi-clandestine organization somehow ran across a pack of easily manipulated doofuses and whackos (Chad, Lori and Alex, plus hangers-on) who had close access to an attractive target (poor, tragic Charles). And (still guessing) this organization planned a nice clean assassination attempt in January, it misfired, and (as can happen when running a pack of doofuses) the op began to run out of control. But the objective remained, at least through October. Assuming (still guessing) that the organization is seriously scary, the pack was frightened into trying again and succeeded in a sloppy and unprofitable assassination in July. Still scared, the pack tries again with Brandon in October, and fails again. By late October they've murdered the children in an attempt at self-preservation and Tammy to raise money, but all that generated way too much risk of discovery (final guess) for the organization and they pulled out, leaving us where we are, which is with what looks like an isolated group with too many loose ends.
OK, I am still not on board with this theory, but I am intrigued. I appreciate your detailed example. I have a few questions if you will humor me. My big issue is with the connection between an organization and the tiny group of doofuses Chad has put together. How did they get connected?

1. So if CV is the attractive target, does that mean that someone wants him dead? A business associate, perhaps, hired a organization to kill him. I assume that this organization would be criminal. Maybe I am not thinking broadly enough, but political seems way out there.
2. Would the doofuses on the ground know that they were doing this for money or would the organization somehow make it seem like it was for killing zombie purposes and justify it by using Chad's teachings/ramblings?
3. The kids were killed for pretty much the same reason, they were problems, but the organization was not concerned with them?
4. And as you mentioned Tammy was still killed for her life insurance?
 
IMO Charles was in a marriage with an addict. She was obsessed/addicted with end of times doctrine and her twisted perceptions of her religion (no excuses for Lori—she has many many more issues than just this!) Any relationship with an addict has a level of codependency. Charles loved his wife, his actions weren’t perfect but he was doing more than many would do to get her the help he thought she needed. Having a mental evaluation executed is a pretty drastic step, calling in LE to enter your own home, .... the list goes on. He was also protecting her by not having even more drastic steps taken. It seems easy to us, take the kids (or just JJ) and run! The system failed Charles (snipped here by QS).

100% yes to this.

There's some data out there (I will try to dig it up) supporting how so many domestic violence police calls tend to go to the same houses over and over (although some states have enacted laws to stop that, as often the final call is very final).

This is a huge leap of assumption on my part, but a first time call citing a spouse who seems dangerous might theoretically get mentally de-escalated by responders, especially when they show up to a nice, middle-class neighborhood and CV looks so "middle class" and responsible. What are the odds he's married to someone so unhinged as he reports?

Plus the bias we have in this country of believing women aren't as capable of violence as men adds to that devaluation of his concerns. CV was a solid guy - it might have been easy for LE to minimize the threat in that capacity, too, especially when he started describing all the woo-woo CD stuff to them.

But boy oh boy, that first reporting to LE of danger is such a huge step, as it surely had to be for CV, and in families that don't usually find themselves in "the system" the call is usually made well into the depths of chaos, so it might theoretically be considered the third or fourth call by an astute responder?

His "trying to work it out" absolutely makes sense. It's family systems psychology - nothing happens in a vacuum, and the system itself seeks equilibrium. Change on one part demands a change on the other.

That text "we have OUR LORI back" seems so telling. He just wanted things back to the way they were before.

And I agree, it's a HUGE thing for him to even make the call - it's betrayal of the family system contract and it's a destabilizing action to the "stability" of the usual order of dysfunction. And his 'violation" of the system was met by even more egregious behavior.

I hope the Gilbert/Chandler PD consider revisiting their DV call/reporting procedures. That was, as you noted, the final straw in a series of incredible (as in "unbelievable") events.
 
I highly doubt Lori would share Charles' life insurance money with some organization (unless she and Chad were it). If there was a wider conspiracy, life insurance schemes would be more common and there would probably be more dead spouses by now. IMO killing children doesn't make sense in this scheme.
There are only two motives that I can think of for killing the kids. Either it was to eliminate witnesses or simply to get them out of the way so Lori and Chad could be together. The first is logical even if immoral. The second is cruel and indicates pure evil.
 
100% yes to this.

There's some data out there (I will try to dig it up) supporting how so many domestic violence police calls tend to go to the same houses over and over (although some states have enacted laws to stop that, as often the final call is very final).

This is a huge leap of assumption on my part, but a first time call citing a spouse who seems dangerous might theoretically get mentally de-escalated by responders, especially when they show up to a nice, middle-class neighborhood and CV looks so "middle class" and responsible. What are the odds he's married to someone so unhinged as he reports?

Plus the bias we have in this country of believing women aren't as capable of violence as men adds to that devaluation of his concerns. CV was a solid guy - it might have been easy for LE to minimize the threat in that capacity, too, especially when he started describing all the woo-woo CD stuff to them.

But boy oh boy, that first reporting to LE of danger is such a huge step, as it surely had to be for CV, and in families that don't usually find themselves in "the system" the call is usually made well into the depths of chaos, so it might theoretically be considered the third or fourth call by an astute responder?

His "trying to work it out" absolutely makes sense. It's family systems psychology - nothing happens in a vacuum, and the system itself seeks equilibrium. Change on one part demands a change on the other.

That text "we have OUR LORI back" seems so telling. He just wanted things back to the way they were before.

And I agree, it's a HUGE thing for him to even make the call - it's betrayal of the family system contract and it's a destabilizing action to the "stability" of the usual order of dysfunction. And his 'violation" of the system was met by even more egregious behavior.

I hope the Gilbert/Chandler PD consider revisiting their DV call/reporting procedures. That was, as you noted, the final straw in a series of incredible (as in "unbelievable") events.
As a DV victim myself, Chandler PD was AWFUL (my multiple experiences)
 
Does this photo seem to you to be taken by someone taller than Alex? Tylee is 5'3". Lori is 5'6". I'm estimating because I cannot find a source for it, that Alex is around 5'9" or 10". This photo seems to be taken at a height.

Now, it may be possible the Lori is on a stair. This is I'm pretty sure the Old Faithful area.

EbIm0AgU8AErJUN
thank you for the link to Gray. That is pretty close to what I was trying to do. Picked out East Chinaman's Spring a few times looking for a bench maybe, but I have to agree this does look like the place.

Google Earth

If you move back a bit you can see there is really not much of a grade there.

Most people hold their phones just below their eye level when taking pictures. If Alex's eyes are about where the phone level is at and Alex is just over 6' and Chad is just under 6'3", I think there is a decent chance the person taking this photo is Chad and not Lori.
 
ADMIN REMINDER:

Stop sleuthing DW and using their full name in discussion.

From the Opening Posts of the thread:

Also, do NOT sleuth anyone on a witness list. If their name is in MSM, you can discuss and speculate on what is said about them or what they have said in MSM, but you cannot sleuth out their personal information and post about it here.
 
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