If It Weren't For....

[sissi]

They always said they made stops, as for Burke's comment, I have never read that anywhere else but on a forum, however,he was nine I can allow for him making mistakes if he did say this. Patsy dropped off presents, I'm hoping the adults involved in this were questioned as to whether or not Jonbenet was sleeping in the car. IMO

 

[UKGuy]

twizzler333:
"Besides, if Patsy and John found out it was either Burke and a friend OR JAR and a friend, don't you think that while they were in the process or covering up this crime they would have drilled them as to what happened and who did what?" ...

I want to echo what you write, a weakness in the BDI scenario is that tuition is invoked, as a pre-condition to satisfy our adult knowledge that a 9-year old indulging in the kind of sexual practices assumed to have taken place, is very low on the probability scale, as is a mortal accident in the company of your brother.!

 

[ManInTheBox]

They always said they made stops, as for Burke's comment, I have never read that anywhere else but on a forum, however,he was nine I can allow for him making mistakes if he did say this. Patsy dropped off presents, I'm hoping the adults involved in this were questioned as to whether or not Jonbenet was sleeping in the car. IMO

This is all from Steve Thomas's novel. Steve says they at first changed their story and said they went straight home and carried JonBenet up to her bedroom in their arms. The Burke (he was interviewed a couple of years later) saikd she walked upstairs on her own power. I am NOT saying this is neccesary to the case. Though this is so insignifigant that is the point. That it shouldn't be contradicted through the family. Christ if they can't agree about that. Could they agree JonBenet was their daughter?

 

[UKGuy]

In PMPT p. 34. Fleet White , whilst being interviewed states "The Ramsey's left, saying that they were going to drop off gifts for other friends, the Stines and the Walkers."

Why is it important to know if she fell asleep in the car, then maybe half carried or asked to walk up stairs, reluctantly, or be carried up either asleep or not?

Since if she ate pineapple later we know she was alive through till then.

 

[ManInTheBox]

In PMPT p. 34. Fleet White , whilst being interviewed states "The Ramsey's left, saying that they were going to drop off gifts for other friends, the Stines and the Walkers."

Why is it important to know if she fell asleep in the car, then maybe half carried or asked to walk up stairs, reluctantly, or be carried up either asleep or not?

Since if she ate pineapple later we know she was alive through till then.

I am not saying it is important to the case. I never said it was. I am wondering why the can't seem to get their story on the same page. The Pineapple is a story all by itself.

 

[BigAppleDetective]

Lie Number One: Patsy's fibers in the garrote.
Lie Number Two: Patsy's fibers on the duct tape.
Lie Number Three: Patsy wrote the note.
Lie Number Four: THEY fed JonBenet the pineapple.

The fibers are ACRYLLIC - sweater material - in only ONE COLOR - red.
Patsy's blazer isn't RED ACRYLLIC.

Patsy did NOT write the note. If she had written the note - the FBI and the SECRET SERVICE would have sent their handwriting experts to testify to that fact - and they didn't!!!!!

It takes less than 60 seconds for a hungry kid to eat a piece of pineapple.

Ladies - if you were monumentally pissed off at anyone - for any reason - could you see yourself - RUNNING DOWN TWO FLIGHTS OF STAIRS - fashioning a garrote - then RUNNING BACK UP TWO FLIGHTS OF STAIRS - and then stun gunning, then tying up and then duct taping and then strangling your daughter, and then bashing her in the head with your son's baseball bat or your husband's flashlight? And then having kept a piece of paintbrush - put that into an already dead child and hiding the third piece of paint brush? The rest of the cord, the rest of the duct tape, and then spend a half hour writing a note with your LEFT HAND? This whole scenario for a parent is SUPER CRAZY.

 

[twizzler333]

Gotta agree with you there BAD. If it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't the truth.

But I can assure you, you will never be able to convince a few of these on this forum of that fact.

 

[BlueCrab]

Gotta agree with you there BAD. If it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't the truth.

Twizzler,

Neither does it make sense to lie, refuse to fully cooperate with the investigation, and coverup for an intruder who has murdered your daughter. If it doesn't make sense to do that for an intruder, then there was no intruder.

JMO

 

[twizzler333]

Twizzler,

Neither does it make sense to lie, refuse to fully cooperate with the investigation, and coverup for an intruder who has murdered your daughter. If it doesn't make sense to do that for an intruder, then there was no intruder.

JMO

That is IF they were lying (they did pass a polygraph), from all the books out there with information on this case they DID cooperate with investigation. I think the BPD was in error on this case from the get-go and now are trying to blame the Ramsey's, IMO. I think if you put yourself in "their shoes" and really think about it, how would you have reacted given the same exact circumstances and the same shotty police work?

Would I have wanted to take my baby home to bury her in our hometown? YES
Would I have wanted to do that as soon as possible? YES
Would I have given hair and DNA samples the next day? YES
Would I have gone down to the police station that very day when I am still traumatized by seeing/finding my daughter tied up and choked to death? NO, I would have had to been medicated because I would have had a nervous breakdown!
When my daughter was finally buried and I was being told that they suspect me for doing this terrible thing to my baby, would I have been questioned without the advice of an attorney? NO. I am well aware of how people can twist things around and I definitely would have had an attorney FIRST! It is common knowledge, unfortunately, that some police tactics are not always on the up and up, and following the things we have seen in the media involving less than honest police departments, I think that, YES, I would have been quite skeptical and a little bit leary of talking to the BPD right away.

Look, everyone condems them for going to CNN a few days after JB died, but WHO suggested they do that?

Bryan Morgan, a family friend, suggested they needed legal counsel to keep things in perspective, and they agreed. Would you tell your lawyer friend "Nah, I'll pass. Just because some sadistic murderer just killed my child and left her in my house, I think I will pass on having any help from an attorney in any way." ?????

I think that given the circumstances and their high profile lifestyle, etc. they did everything anyone in their position would have done. IMO.


I don't see a cover up. Call me stupid, whatever, I just don't see it.

 

[Camper]

Lie Number One: Patsy's fibers in the garrote.
Lie Number Two: Patsy's fibers on the duct tape.
Lie Number Three: Patsy wrote the note.
Lie Number Four: THEY fed JonBenet the pineapple.

The fibers are ACRYLLIC - sweater material - in only ONE COLOR - red.
Patsy's blazer isn't RED ACRYLLIC.

Patsy did NOT write the note. If she had written the note - the FBI and the SECRET SERVICE would have sent their handwriting experts to testify to that fact - and they didn't!!!!!

It takes less than 60 seconds for a hungry kid to eat a piece of pineapple.

Ladies - if you were monumentally pissed off at anyone - for any reason - could you see yourself - RUNNING DOWN TWO FLIGHTS OF STAIRS - fashioning a garrote - then RUNNING BACK UP TWO FLIGHTS OF STAIRS - and then stun gunning, then tying up and then duct taping and then strangling your daughter, and then bashing her in the head with your son's baseball bat or your husband's flashlight? And then having kept a piece of paintbrush - put that into an already dead child and hiding the third piece of paint brush? The rest of the cord, the rest of the duct tape, and then spend a half hour writing a note with your LEFT HAND? This whole scenario for a parent is SUPER CRAZY.

===============<><You describe a very busy evening. There were clothes in the dryer, the stun gun IF IF IF there was one could have been not yet wrapped for Christmas giving, remember the unwrapped gifts in the basement? Patsy was ambidextrous as was brought out by her old school teacher and friends.

Other than that, it was just a frantic busy coverup for an accidental asphyxiation/strangulation, imop. WHO was the coverup done for, is the big question, imop.

My theory is based on published media accounts, and words written by the Ramseys and spoken by the Ramseys.


.



.

 

[TressaRing28]

That is IF they were lying (they did pass a polygraph), from all the books out there with information on this case they DID cooperate with investigation. I think the BPD was in error on this case from the get-go and now are trying to blame the Ramsey's, IMO. I think if you put yourself in "their shoes" and really think about it, how would you have reacted given the same exact circumstances and the same shotty police work?

Would I have wanted to take my baby home to bury her in our hometown? YES
Would I have wanted to do that as soon as possible? YES
Would I have given hair and DNA samples the next day? YES
Would I have gone down to the police station that very day when I am still traumatized by seeing/finding my daughter tied up and choked to death? NO, I would have had to been medicated because I would have had a nervous breakdown!
When my daughter was finally buried and I was being told that they suspect me for doing this terrible thing to my baby, would I have been questioned without the advice of an attorney? NO. I am well aware of how people can twist things around and I definitely would have had an attorney FIRST! It is common knowledge, unfortunately, that some police tactics are not always on the up and up, and following the things we have seen in the media involving less than honest police departments, I think that, YES, I would have been quite skeptical and a little bit leary of talking to the BPD right away.

Look, everyone condems them for going to CNN a few days after JB died, but WHO suggested they do that?

Bryan Morgan, a family friend, suggested they needed legal counsel to keep things in perspective, and they agreed. Would you tell your lawyer friend "Nah, I'll pass. Just because some sadistic murderer just killed my child and left her in my house, I think I will pass on having any help from an attorney in any way." ?????

I think that given the circumstances and their high profile lifestyle, etc. they did everything anyone in their position would have done. IMO.


I don't see a cover up. Call me stupid, whatever, I just don't see it.

LOL You go Twizzler, Good point.

The style makes me smile I'll give it a TEN. :dance:

 

[KATKAT19691]

That is IF they were lying (they did pass a polygraph), from all the books out there with information on this case they DID cooperate with investigation. I think the BPD was in error on this case from the get-go and now are trying to blame the Ramsey's, IMO. I think if you put yourself in "their shoes" and really think about it, how would you have reacted given the same exact circumstances and the same shotty police work?

Would I have wanted to take my baby home to bury her in our hometown? YES
Would I have wanted to do that as soon as possible? YES
Would I have given hair and DNA samples the next day? YES
Would I have gone down to the police station that very day when I am still traumatized by seeing/finding my daughter tied up and choked to death? NO, I would have had to been medicated because I would have had a nervous breakdown!
When my daughter was finally buried and I was being told that they suspect me for doing this terrible thing to my baby, would I have been questioned without the advice of an attorney? NO. I am well aware of how people can twist things around and I definitely would have had an attorney FIRST! It is common knowledge, unfortunately, that some police tactics are not always on the up and up, and following the things we have seen in the media involving less than honest police departments, I think that, YES, I would have been quite skeptical and a little bit leary of talking to the BPD right away.

Look, everyone condems them for going to CNN a few days after JB died, but WHO suggested they do that?

Bryan Morgan, a family friend, suggested they needed legal counsel to keep things in perspective, and they agreed. Would you tell your lawyer friend "Nah, I'll pass. Just because some sadistic murderer just killed my child and left her in my house, I think I will pass on having any help from an attorney in any way." ?????

I think that given the circumstances and their high profile lifestyle, etc. they did everything anyone in their position would have done. IMO.


I don't see a cover up. Call me stupid, whatever, I just don't see it.

I do agree, unfort. though most people have the idea you dont need an attorney unless you are guilty, this is not true, if the police think you have done something you do need an attorney. Most people who think this way have never had to deal with the police while being accused of something you did not do.
IMO
Kat

 

[Camper]

Just HOW many John Walsh types are there in our world?

I use him as an example, because I do believe he reflects the 'honest' person syndrome.

When John W. realized the police were focusing on HIM, he took a lie detector test right then and there, NOT years and years later. SO that the investigation could take a concentrated FOCUS ON finding his little boy.

The Ramsey focus, imop, was more of a hocus pocus focus.(C) Taking a lie detector test so many years later being a part of diverting attention to them.

I heard of a man who was retired from the police force, whose specialty was lie detector testing. After retirement he taught LAWYERS in groups, on the topic of HOW to pass a lie detector test.

A very important part of the test, is the spiking of the controls on specific issues. Asking in the beginning of the test questions that are obviously true, such as what is your name etc. and adjusting the spike levels at that time, on the honesty issue response.

Blood pressure comes into play on the 'REAL' questions, and causes significant spikes, IF the answer given is false!

The control issue here, that was taught, was to contract/squeeze the sphincter muscle, which he explains does keep the blood pressure from spiking. The kegal exercise if you will.

I just relay the message, I did not create the message. Heard the gentleman who relayed this message to me via the radio, on the George Noory, Coast to Coast AM program, about four nights ago. You could find the info on line, donut remember the gentlemans names, but he is listed as a 'skeptic guest'. GeorgeNoory.com

My opinion on honest behaviors is that IF IF I were being surrounded by LE, sure get a lawyer, but holler from the housetops, 'WE/I had nothing to do with our baby's murder, NOTHING, NOTHING NOTHING'. PLUS I would NEVER NEVER SHUT UP, even lying on the cement beating my fists into the ground. Get your crayons out and color ME ODD, hmmm.

Yep I do like the comment I made, 'The hocus pocus focus'(C).

Coming clean is always the best way, IF IF you wish to maintain your own personal integrity, IMOP.

==============Beating a dead horse, is my opinion, the perp has been suffering their own personal He--, since Dec 1996.

May JonBenet rest in peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



My theory is based on published media accounts, and words written by the Ramseys and spoken by the Ramseys.




.

 

[twizzler333]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like the only person whose opinion it was that they were not cooperating was Steve Thomas, and I take what he has to say with a grain of salt. I think they cooperated quite normally considering the circumstances. They were almost instantly accused and naturally they will resist somewhat but if they had something to hide, they would have avoided at all costs giving hair and blood samples the next day. They were just pissed off by the time they had sufficient time to take care of burial of JonBenet and they were smart enough to see the writing on the wall of what was happening involving the media and the BPD, and their counsel had most of the control over what they would do and where they would do it. Yes, they had to make decisions, but the cops being upset because they could not interrogate them at the police department instead of at some lawyers house is insane to me. They can bully them in a house, just as well as they can in a windowless room with metal chairs IF they know what they are doing! I have often had doubts anyway about police interrogations taking place in that environment. Look at the ones who have actually confessed to crimes that were later proven to be false confessions simply because of the methods used in the interrogation by the police. I would NEVER subject myself to that situation if I knew I wasn't guilty because I have seen how they manipulate and actually control the situation to their advantage. Once the BPD admits they screwed up, then this case will be able to proceed EVEN though the DA's office now has it.

 

[sissi]

We have to remember ,as well, that Steve Thomas had an agenda.
He was ill, Graves disease, he did not have his illness under control, wanted to take a disability, it was disallowed so he wrote the "showman" note and blamed his leaving on the mishandling of a case. NO! His efforts to take that disability are on record!
He during his short carreer as a police officer here, there and yonder (no not long in Boulder) was tarnished by a quick trigger finger, he pulled that trigger twice. I live in a big nasty city and know honorable men who have worked this force for years and never once pulled the trigger. IMO this is telling of the kind of man he is. IMO

 

[Nehemiah]

I don't think the BPD admitting anything will make any difference at all. The DA has the case, irrelevant to the BPD's actions. I also believe that there was already a chasm between the BPD/DA before the murder, and was exacerbated as the investigation progressed. I think Steve Thomas was on target in his book with the way he described the "system". I also believe that he was misguided in some areas of the evidence, however, I am not privvy to the real evidence so I can't automatically make that judgement and be fair to anyone. Schiller left out 90% of what he knew, and that's a lot of omission.

I also think that the Ramseys did/do act very suspiciously. I have never understood their reasons for not beating the pavement, as Camper so illustriously stated. So many of their actions appeared to be "for show", but then again I do not personally know them, and while I can think I'd do differently, I've never been in that situation and in reality, don't know what I'd do if my child were murdered (by whomever). With the money they have, they could mount up a campaign, not to be elected to a political position, but to assist in finding the killer of their daughter, if one truly exists.

I just don't know. These are my opinions, and we all have them.

 

[twinkiesmom]

The fibers are ACRYLLIC - sweater material - in only ONE COLOR - red.
Patsy's blazer isn't RED ACRYLLIC.


Actually, it was acrylic per Patsy's interview.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4665

4 MR. KANE: I believe it was made
5 of acrylic, if that helps.
6 THE WITNESS: Yeah.
7 MR. WOOD: You all gotta decide,
8 he says wool, you say acrylic.
9 MR. LEVIN: It was acrylic.

 

[KATKAT19691]

Just HOW many John Walsh types are there in our world?

I use him as an example, because I do believe he reflects the 'honest' person syndrome.

When John W. realized the police were focusing on HIM, he took a lie detector test right then and there, NOT years and years later. SO that the investigation could take a concentrated FOCUS ON finding his little boy.

The Ramsey focus, imop, was more of a hocus pocus focus.(C) Taking a lie detector test so many years later being a part of diverting attention to them.

I heard of a man who was retired from the police force, whose specialty was lie detector testing. After retirement he taught LAWYERS in groups, on the topic of HOW to pass a lie detector test.

A very important part of the test, is the spiking of the controls on specific issues. Asking in the beginning of the test questions that are obviously true, such as what is your name etc. and adjusting the spike levels at that time, on the honesty issue response.

Blood pressure comes into play on the 'REAL' questions, and causes significant spikes, IF the answer given is false!

The control issue here, that was taught, was to contract/squeeze the sphincter muscle, which he explains does keep the blood pressure from spiking. The kegal exercise if you will.

I just relay the message, I did not create the message. Heard the gentleman who relayed this message to me via the radio, on the George Noory, Coast to Coast AM program, about four nights ago. You could find the info on line, donut remember the gentlemans names, but he is listed as a 'skeptic guest'. GeorgeNoory.com

My opinion on honest behaviors is that IF IF I were being surrounded by LE, sure get a lawyer, but holler from the housetops, 'WE/I had nothing to do with our baby's murder, NOTHING, NOTHING NOTHING'. PLUS I would NEVER NEVER SHUT UP, even lying on the cement beating my fists into the ground. Get your crayons out and color ME ODD, hmmm.

Yep I do like the comment I made, 'The hocus pocus focus'(C).

Coming clean is always the best way, IF IF you wish to maintain your own personal integrity, IMOP.

==============Beating a dead horse, is my opinion, the perp has been suffering their own personal He--, since Dec 1996.

May JonBenet rest in peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



My theory is based on published media accounts, and words written by the Ramseys and spoken by the Ramseys.




.

John W. did not have an attorney giving him advice! Also, please remember the reason why lie dect. are not adm. in court is because the are not RELIABLE!
Kat
IMO

 

[Camper]

Yes Twizzler, giving blood and hair samples are fine examples of being cooperative. Particularly IF IF they were merely covering for another member of the family.

Forensic science would have come a long way, IF IF IF a test could have been done on Patsys fingers to detect ink fumes there from writing the ransom note.

The ransom note is a piece of work. Was it done before the fact while waiting for the Ramseys to come home, or done after the fact for covering. So experts cannot determine to this date with 'clarity' on whether Patsy 'did' the note, but imop, her writing skills and personality are all over the note.

Twilight where are you? Twilight did an incredible analysis of 'the' note, cannot remember the name of the science she uses in sentence structure, grammar usage etc. Anyone remember the name of the process?

OH and on the lie detector test they passed after Umpteen years, just trying to lock up the barn door after the horse had already run away.



.

 

[seye]

.

Twilight where are you? Twilight did an incredible analysis of 'the' note, cannot remember the name of the science she uses in sentence structure, grammar usage etc. Anyone remember the name of the process?

.

Camper,

Twilight is a Linguistic expert, she used Linguistic Analysis Techniques to analyze the RN and compared it to other samples of Patsy's handwriting.
If I recall correctly, Twilight concluded that Patsy penned the RN. Is this not correct BC?

Be Well