I'm thinking the green beads may have been a disguise, a diversion. I'm wondering if he wore them to put more focus on them and less focus on the rest of him. I give credit to "Martha" for giving a great detailed description of him.
IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008
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I'm thinking the green beads may have been a disguise, a diversion. I'm wondering if he wore them to put more focus on them and less focus on the rest of him. I give credit to "Martha" for giving a great detailed description of him.
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Do you think a store like Lane Bryant would be less likely to have a lot of different looking delivery forms? All their merchandise has the Lane Bryant label as far as I know. They don’t carry a lot of brands. I honestly would have no idea where to start in making a delivery form, and I would think if I tried, a store manager would laugh at it.
As far as other stores go. There were Lane Bryant’s in Matteson and Homewood, Illinois that don’t show up because they have recently closed. There could be more that I’m not aware of.
I’ve heard two stories about why she called. One is she called to ask if the other store sent the delivery (like they were sending her some of their merchandise), and the other is she called to see if the other store was expecting the delivery. Slightly different accounts and who knows which one is right.
Do you think a store like Lane Bryant would be less likely to have a lot of different looking delivery forms? All their merchandise has the Lane Bryant label as far as I know. They don’t carry a lot of brands. I honestly would have no idea where to start in making a delivery form, and I would think if I tried, a store manager would laugh at it.
As far as other stores go. There were Lane Bryant’s in Matteson and Homewood, Illinois that don’t show up because they have recently closed. There could be more that I’m not aware of.
I’ve always thought it could be gang colors or something to do with rap music at the time.
Interesting point regarding the distracting beads, for all we know the whole head attire could have been a braided wig decorated with beads and stitched into the beanie?
The braids, beads, hat and the jeans with sparkly pockets, plus the coffee and ''official'' paper in hand, reminds me of a guy looking for a date. imo, speculation.
Chappy
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I wonder if they looked into large life insurance policies on the victims. I wonder if anyone was there returning something or using a gift card ? You can manipulate certain scenarios (ie getting people into area/location at a particular window of time). Then there’s those crime of opportunities (former employee) like the Palatine Brown’s chicken massacre. I definitely have to listen to this podcast
At this point in time, unless there is a DNA hit or a deathbed confession or something, the case is unlikely to be solved.
From what I can tell, this was a fairly straightforward armed robbery that went horribly wrong. Anybody but the dumbest first timer has some consideration for the availability of cash before the time of the job is decided. Right after the bank-run when the store has first opened is the absolute worst time to do a robbery because there will be the least amount of cash available. I suspect that the store opened an hour earlier than they expected. That would explain the delivery ploy. Had the robber expected the store to be open for business, he could have walked in without any pretense of making a delivery. Not verifying the opening time is about the stupidest thing thing they could of done. I do wonder if Lane Bryants in other locations opened an hour later. That might be a clue to where they were from.
The paperwork the robber presented has always been a mystery. Whatever it was, it must have been good enough for the manager to call a different store. Had the guy presented something that was clearly other than a Lane Bryant delivery order, I doubt she would have invited him back to her office. He must have had something that appeared somewhat legitimate. I’m wondering if they either got it from an employee of a different Lane Bryant (perhaps one that opened an hour later) or just got it “dumpster diving” in the trash from such a store. Either way, that shop would have probably been one near where they lived. We don’t know which Lane Bryant the store manager called but hopefully this was considered.
From what I can tell, this was a fairly straightforward armed robbery that went horribly wrong. Anybody but the dumbest first timer has some consideration for the availability of cash before the time of the job is decided. Right after the bank-run when the store has first opened is the absolute worst time to do a robbery because there will be the least amount of cash available. I suspect that the store opened an hour earlier than they expected. That would explain the delivery ploy. Had the robber expected the store to be open for business, he could have walked in without any pretense of making a delivery. Not verifying the opening time is about the stupidest thing thing they could of done. I do wonder if Lane Bryants in other locations opened an hour later. That might be a clue to where they were from.
The paperwork the robber presented has always been a mystery. Whatever it was, it must have been good enough for the manager to call a different store. Had the guy presented something that was clearly other than a Lane Bryant delivery order, I doubt she would have invited him back to her office. He must have had something that appeared somewhat legitimate. I’m wondering if they either got it from an employee of a different Lane Bryant (perhaps one that opened an hour later) or just got it “dumpster diving” in the trash from such a store. Either way, that shop would have probably been one near where they lived. We don’t know which Lane Bryant the store manager called but hopefully this was considered.
There is always that guy, the one who turns out to be a dodgy roommate, or the ''bad'' sibling, not to mention the young woman who has not yet realized her new boyfriend is a creep.
Wondering if ''that guy'' was in a position to steal a shipping slip from a former sales clerk, or delivery guy, maybe even stealing it out of a neighbour's garbage (cleaning staff?) speculation.
Wondering if ''that guy'' was in a position to steal a shipping slip from a former sales clerk, or delivery guy, maybe even stealing it out of a neighbour's garbage (cleaning staff?) speculation.
mickey2942
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I have always thought that LEO should look at former employees, who may have left on bad terms, and gave bogus information to someone, about how easy it would be, and how much money it would be. This person could have provided a lot of information about the store.
Theft and violence at work places, is 90% internal.
Theft and violence at work places, is 90% internal.
Lane Bryant likely may sub out their product manufacturing. Most likely to Asian countries. A lot of firms, in a effort to reduce inventory costs, might have the deliveries made straight to the stores rather than warehousing. (Also called 'just-in-time inventory'.) If there are different entities contracted to supply clothing with the Lane Bryant label they may likely have their own delivery order forms. I saw this happening with other types of businesses years ago when performing audits.
What may have triggered the call was the form may have lacked an internal control item such as a purchase order number and the manager called another store to see if the delivery wasn't for them if she was not likely expecting the order. If the killer's intent was to get in the store before it opened the delivery ruse is understandable, but he arrived after the store opened. Maybe it was intended as a way to get the employees in the back quietly. Even with that I don't understand it, because with a gun he could have herded them into the back. Whatever his reasoning was for the delivery ruse I suspect it didn't go as he expected and that may have been the first in a series of events that did not go as would have liked. The others were customers showing up and then the 911 call. And he spent 4o minutes in the store. That would appear he was indecisive after he started if he spent more than 5 minutes - 10-15 if he had to bind them up with tape. I just have this gut feeling that this guy did not plan on shooting anyone when he entered the store.
I really believe the delivery ruse was just another aspect that indicates this guy really had little or no experience in robberies.
I wonder if he did the delivery ruse to get the employee(s) to take him into the back office and perhaps at first, thought he would just take one or two employees back there with as little fanfare as possible, rob them, and get the heck out of dodge quickly without involving customers. Perhaps when he found out there was little cash to be had as a delivery to the bank had just been made, he raged out, changed his plan and started taking everyone who came in hostage, eventually murdering almost all of them. MOO
I agree that the likelihood of solving this case goes down as each year goes by. I also think the only hope is the DNA. I think the delivery ruse was to scope out the store before robbing it. He was looking around for cameras, checking where the back room is and maybe the escape routes. Perhaps they didn't scope it out ahead of time and were doing it on the fly and the delivery ruse bought just enough time,.
Or if they looked into whoever was supposed to be working later that day. He could have been waiting on someone to arrive.
Most retailers hire seasonal employees during the holidays. I bet the company had recently laid off those workers.
The room he tied them up in had the back door. Not the best place to keep the hostages. A part of me thinks he’d never been in that particular store (I go back and forth on this though), but I will always believe he knew the area because he was able to get out of the shopping center complex so quickly.
I also feel like investigators need to really look into the stolen vehicles in the area in the months leading up to this crime. It seems they’re usually using stolen vehicles when they do robberies. There may be something in those case files that give clues to the perp(s), and it wouldn’t hurt even though I imagine it would be tedious.
Now there's a thought. A seasonal employee OR a person with a connection to a seasonal employee?
I don’t think we have a description of his shoes actually. I can’t recall one and one doesn’t come up in a thread search. I do think they probably were able to figure out what type of shoes he was wearing and possibly the size too because of the way they treated the man they detained in the target parking lot. I imagine he had blood on his shoes after shooting them execution style while laying face down.
1 may have survived Illinois shootings – The Denver Post
The Lane Bryant Shooting — Unresolved
For all we know, the person in the SUV was a former employee with a grudge who didn't want to go in because of the fear of being recognized. They sent the shooter in to do the dirty work. That might sound far fetched but I'm willing to believe anything after 14 years.
IceIce9
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I feel that it is quite possible he had inside information from a former employee.
Being very familiar with that area, I would say that either the shooter or the driver would have had to be very familiar with the area in order to make a quick getaway. Despite the close proximity to the freeway entrance/exit I don’t think it was a random person who happened to hop off the freeway, search for a business to rob, then hop back on the freeway.
The fact that he spent over 40 minutes in the store is puzzling for sure. If the motive was a simple robbery wouldn’t he have gotten in and out as quickly as possible?
Certainly LE would have thoroughly checked out any former employees, especially ones who may have been disgruntled or fired. What about former employees from other Lane Bryant locations?
Being very familiar with that area, I would say that either the shooter or the driver would have had to be very familiar with the area in order to make a quick getaway. Despite the close proximity to the freeway entrance/exit I don’t think it was a random person who happened to hop off the freeway, search for a business to rob, then hop back on the freeway.
The fact that he spent over 40 minutes in the store is puzzling for sure. If the motive was a simple robbery wouldn’t he have gotten in and out as quickly as possible?
Certainly LE would have thoroughly checked out any former employees, especially ones who may have been disgruntled or fired. What about former employees from other Lane Bryant locations?