Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #5 *Arrest*

[SteveP]

SteveP - Wasn't her par in his "games" to play herself, a terrified and powerless woman he could dominate and terrorize?

To some extent, yes. But for him, I believe the thrill is in getting someone to finally break and submit to him, in her fear, and I don't believe YingYing would have given him that satisfaction. I think she probably fought until she had no fight left in her. All just speculation and my opinion, of course.

 

[mrsobrien]

did your research find any methods of incapacitation?
If the victim was to be subdued immediately, what was the recommended method? Ether?. Something else? Killing immediately would surely have been counter-productive?

I don't think that this was directed to me, but I can say that the topic of modes of incapacitation did appear at Abduction 101 a few times that I saw. Specifically about ether... it was asked at least once (not by a known BC profile or friend of known BC profile) if ether play was recommended. The general concensus was that it's too dangerous and just pretending with a rag over the abductee's face was typical practice rather than the real deal. The abductee would simply feign passing out in that scene.

 

[kittythehare]

I don't think that this was directed to me, but I can say that the topic of modes of incapacitation did appear at Abduction 101 a few times that I saw. Specifically about ether... it was asked at least once (not by a known BC profile or friend of known BC profile) if ether play was recommended. The general concensus was that it's too dangerous and just pretending with a rag over the abductee's face was typical practice rather than the real deal. The abductee would simply feign passing out in that scene.

Thanks for that. Assuming he did not want to kill her immediately, yet needed to incapacitate her quickly, how could he have done it in the confines of the car? Referring to the photo analysis a couple of days ago when it looked like she was either slumped or at least not sitting up straight in the later photos.. is there any spray he could have used, any type of blow to stun but not kill? Any ideas at all on how he could have subdued her until he brought her to wherever he did bring her? A gun? A knife threat might have caused her to flee? child proof locks on that model car as standard or not?
Theres something major we are not seeing and thats why am speculating so wildly.. sorry for boring everybody who I know has probably re-run the scenario a million times.
Is real ether readily available.. ? could he have administered it while still driving or is gunpoint more likely? He boasted she had struggled but he was given to exaggeration, was he not? The inside of the car door was heavily cleansed.. did she try opening it or did he hold her against it while he did 'something'..?

 

[mrsobrien]

Thanks for that. Assuming he did not want to kill her immediately, yet needed to incapacitate her quickly, how could he have done it in the confines of the car? Referring to the photo analysis a couple of days ago when it looked like she was either slumped or at least not sitting up straight in the later photos.. is there any spray he could have used, any type of blow to stun but not kill? Any ideas at all on how he could have subdued her until he brought her to wherever he did bring her? A gun? A knife threat might have caused her to flee? child proof locks on that model car as standard or not?
Theres something major we are not seeing and thats why am speculating so wildly.. sorry for boring everybody who I know has probably re-run the scenario a million times.
Is real ether readily available.. ? could he have administered it while still driving or is gunpoint more likely? He boasted she had struggled but he was given to exaggeration, was he not? The inside of the car door was heavily cleansed.. did she try opening it or did he hold her against it while he did 'something'..?

I'm not aware of any spray or other tool that would subdue that quickly, even ether takes a few minutes, contrary to what Hollywood teaches us!

No child locks in the front of the Astra, back seats only. The owner's manual is online for reference.

 

[Tinypeeps]

To some extent, yes. But for him, I believe the thrill is in getting someone to finally break and submit to him, in her fear, and I don't believe YingYing would have given him that satisfaction. I think she probably fought until she had no fight left in her. All just speculation and my opinion, of course.

Good point. I think you are right that she probably surprised him with her fight.

 

[Tinypeeps]

I don't think that this was directed to me, but I can say that the topic of modes of incapacitation did appear at Abduction 101 a few times that I saw. Specifically about ether... it was asked at least once (not by a known BC profile or friend of known BC profile) if ether play was recommended. The general concensus was that it's too dangerous and just pretending with a rag over the abductee's face was typical practice rather than the real deal. The abductee would simply feign passing out in that scene.

"..ether play.." um.

 

[LoremIpsum]

GHOULINA I just saw your post. Amazing. You sure got yourself one seriously strong Honey! Does the gym have any large windows out to the parking lot? Just wondering, when the BOLO went out for the vehicle.... how many people walked by BC's car, never even realizing it was THE car? Or maybe he never even parked it at the gym? Just wondering.....from a "male's" viewpoint as I would be the last person to ask about a vehicle make & model. Also, my hubs said it is strange, to him, that a man would be texting in the gym. He occasionally sees women texting, but that most MEN don't want to lose, damage or get sweat on their phones....and keep them in their gym bags. Wow, when you think about it....a month ago would be almost exactly when the FBI knocked on his front door!! Bet he was really watching his phone then! What are the chances of you narrowing down the exact day the photo was taken? I'm going to guess that is the phone the FBI took...so Monday, June 12th?

The gym is in the basement of the building, main floor is rooms for group classes, and everything else is rental apartments. With the exception of maybe two people, I cant tell you who drives what vehicle even though I see these people in the gym everyday. It's not surprising to me that no one noticed the car - and that's assuming they even drove it there; they may still have that camaro or some other second vehicle. And all that is after I was scrutinizing every black hatchback I saw to see if it was the kidnapping vehicle - I just never saw it there.

And I'd like to dispute the "men are never on their phones at the gym" idea. More than half of people listen to music and may be skipping a song or whatnot, may be consulting a workout plan, may be using a fitness tracker app to keep track of the moves/weight/sets as they do them... my husband texts me back in between sets if I happen to not be there some days. And a lot of people film themselves/friends while setting a new personal record or just to be able to go back and see if your form is good.

BC was weird, IMO. He never made eye contact or talked to anyone at the gym including his wife. He never looked around at other people or the tv's. He would just be staring, despondently almost, at himself in the mirror as he listened to music in between sets. I never saw him smile or show any other emotion; he barely acknowledged other people. Yes, he was a little different. He wore a beanie in the summer while working out for goodness sake (some sarcasm there, but it is kind of an odd thing to do).

There hasn't been many details released. It's frustrating because it gives us sluethers very few concrete facts to speculate upon. But lately we are all as a whole pretty off topic and on petty tangents. Maybe we should start over. Make an up-to-date list of facts. Ask pertinent questions. And try to be productive armchair detectives.

Because we do have the ability to be useful.

Who noticed the cracked hubcap on the car? Pretty sure the police didn't at first. Their reports make it seem as if that is something they didn't catch the first time around. But you guys did. Let's get back to that level of brainstorming.

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[mrsobrien]

"..ether play.." um.

Yeah...I know. But at least the idea is shut down, right? And, to me, the use of the word "play" implies that nonconsensual or intentional harming is not the objective.
Not my cup of tea!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The gym is in the basement of the building, main floor is rooms for group classes, and everything else is rental apartments. With the exception of maybe two people, I cant tell you who drives what vehicle even though I see these people in the gym everyday. It's not surprising to me that no one noticed the car - and that's assuming they even drove it there; they may still have that camaro or some other second vehicle. And all that is after I was scrutinizing every black hatchback I saw to see if it was the kidnapping vehicle - I just never saw it there.

And I'd like to dispute the "men are never on their phones at the gym" idea. More than half of people listen to music and may be skipping a song or whatnot, may be consulting a workout plan, may be using a fitness tracker app to keep track of the moves/weight/sets as they do them... my husband texts me back in between sets if I happen to not be there some days. And a lot of people film themselves/friends while setting a new personal record or just to be able to go back and see if your form is good.

BC was weird, IMO. He never made eye contact or talked to anyone at the gym including his wife. He never looked around at other people or the tv's. He would just be staring, despondently almost, at himself in the mirror as he listened to music in between sets. I never saw him smile or show any other emotion; he barely acknowledged other people. Yes, he was a little different. He wore a beanie in the summer while working out for goodness sake (some sarcasm there, but it is kind of an odd thing to do).

There hasn't been many details released. It's frustrating because it gives us sluethers very few concrete facts to speculate upon. But lately we are all as a whole pretty off topic and on petty tangents. Maybe we should start over. Make an up-to-date list of facts. Ask pertinent questions. And try to be productive armchair detectives.

Because we do have the ability to be useful.

Who noticed the cracked hubcap on the car? Pretty sure the police didn't at first. Their reports make it seem as if that is something they didn't catch the first time around. But you guys did. Let's get back to that level of brainstorming.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

bbm

In Ger we have a comedian who is always wearing a beanie on stage because he is sweating so much and the beanie prevents sweat from running into his (verrry good looking!) face as he once told his audience.
I would like to know the color of BC's beanie (beanies). Is one of them something like that below minus the logo?? Approximately this color??


I admit: I'm sometimes a little bit fanatical if there is some presumption what I'm thinking of being related to BC perhaps and the time before Yingying's abduction. I would like to find out how "dirty" he has been before already.

 

[Elainera]

I'm not aware of any spray or other tool that would subdue that quickly, even ether takes a few minutes, contrary to what Hollywood teaches us!

No child locks in the front of the Astra, back seats only. The owner's manual is online for reference.

bbm - What about chloroform? Or is it the same? (I don't want to google these terms ... ) Maybe he cleaned that seat so thoroughly because she vomited from the chemical?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

did your research find any methods of incapacitation?
If the victim was to be subdued immediately, what was the recommended method? Ether?. Something else? Killing immediately would surely have been counter-productive?

Why do you suggest 'outdoors' which was merely one of the many chocolates he liked in the entire box would necessarily need to involve a second person?
I have opened the link you provided but I'm not sure which section you were referring to?

bbm
I for my part imagine BC having had many "outdoor sessions" at several different areas (forests, parks, trails, etc.) WITH any sex partner before the abduction, maybe also "adventures" solely (exhibitionist for example) - AND THEN later was pretty prepared for hiding his victim of abduction (without the help of another person) somewhere on those places he had had "pleasure" before.

 

[mrsobrien]

bbm - What about chloroform? Or is it the same? (I don't want to google these terms ... ) Maybe he cleaned that seat so thoroughly because she vomited from the chemical?

Unlike the movies, chloroform is not fast acting. A soaked rag held over a victim’s face would take up to five minutes to render them unconscious.

https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-chloroform-knock-you-out-for

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I personally think he killed her within the first 24 hours after abducting her, most likely that evening. This is a man that I can't imagine takes 'no' well, and I can see that he could have real anger issues. I believe he probably killed her as soon as he realized that she would have no part of his sick games. That also figures into why I think she was just dumped somewhere close by. I believe he was still stewing with anger and just wanted to be rid of her after his fantasies came crashing down. JMO

I agree. BC seems to have not the least respect for women, therefore he could have a nice wife, a little mistress holding hands with in the open, and more sex partners after which he sought online. So I think, he didn't have respect for his female victim of abduction, Y., and didn't hesitate one second to murder that witness after he had had, what he wanted (or not). IMO of course.

 

[Webthrush]

IF YY was subdued almost immediately I don’t think it was anything like ether (difficult to get and dangerous to work with, although BC, working in University labs, may have had access to it), but simply some sort of stun gun, quick, non-messy, effective at close range. And I suspect she died of either strangulation or a broken neck.

 

[kittythehare]

bbm
I for my part imagine BC having had many "outdoor sessions" at several different areas (forests, parks, trails, etc.) WITH any sex partner before the abduction, maybe also "adventures" solely (exhibitionist for example) - AND THEN later was pretty prepared for hiding his victim of abduction (without the help of another person) somewhere on those places he had had "pleasure" before.

okay, try this out?
Suppose he is actually impotent..and never gets to have any sex at all, ever.

The description of his work-outs (gyms as alien to me as fetishes, btw).. almost autopilot... almost ritualistic.. creature of habit, imprisoned by this awful routine that brings no joy, yet compelled to do it..daily grind. Joyless.
Watching him on the march, with the girl, the way he had his hand on her shoulder, not a relaxed loving gesture.. at first i thought he was abducting her.. that she was a prisoner, he removed something I couldn't see from his left pocket but his weighty, not grip, hold of her stayed firm. Later they walked with hands entwined.. same type of hold.. joyless.. loveless..
I'm not seeing pent up rage.. more zombified.. dude does not relax.. he inhabits his body but he more like drags it along with him.. his vitl force , his life force is deeply repressed or suppressed.. his childhood could be interesting.. he looks to be in a state of deep shock, just going through the motions.. joyless, loveless..what happened to him, when did he freeze up?
(i'd love a few minutes with his finances)
His sexuality looks to be either absent or frozen..
Why would he kill her, why would he kidnap her?
Has he done it before?
Why tell anybody about it?
In what way did he do the telling? As a boast? As a mere recounting?
Does he have MPD, depression, schizophrenia? Is he a bully or a victim or both?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

okay, try this out?
Suppose he is actually impotent..and never gets to have any sex at all, ever.

The description of his work-outs (gyms as alien to me as fetishes, btw).. almost autopilot... almost ritualistic.. creature of habit, imprisoned by this awful routine that brings no joy, yet compelled to do it..daily grind. Joyless.
Watching him on the march, with the girl, the way he had his hand on her shoulder, not a relaxed loving gesture.. at first i thought he was abducting her.. that she was a prisoner, he removed something I couldn't see from his left pocket but his weighty, not grip, hold of her stayed firm. Later they walked with hands entwined.. same type of hold.. joyless.. loveless..
I'm not seeing pent up rage.. more zombified.. dude does not relax.. he inhabits his body but he more like drags it along with him.. his vitl force , his life force is deeply repressed or suppressed.. his childhood could be interesting.. he looks to be in a state of deep shock, just going through the motions.. joyless, loveless..what happened to him, when did he freeze up?
(i'd love a few minutes with his finances)
His sexuality looks to be either absent or frozen..
Why would he kill her, why would he kidnap her?
Has he done it before?
Why tell anybody about it?
In what way did he do the telling? As a boast? As a mere recounting?
Does he have MPD, depression, schizophrenia? Is he a bully or a victim or both?

Very agreeing with you on mostly all points!
When he was holding his female companion during the vigil march around her shoulders, I thought: he had her for his safety. So he could hinder her to run away suddenly (maybe while confessing to her or speaking about "a next victim").

 

[AnemoneBrown]

You would think local Crime Stopper organizations are both busy and more acquainted with LE personnel and procedures than the average WebSleuther. So, here is my question: If this family is in denial or irrationally holding on to hope then: (1) Why would CS agree to up the reward money for tips leading to find Yinying?; (2) Why would CS even take it a step further and put together a press conference featuring the family pleading for tips?

The way this case is discussed here when approached to up the reward money CS should've told the Zhang's to trust LE is doing all they can and cite they have many other cases that need their attention. So, why indulge the parents if they are just deluded? Why go through the trouble of organizing, publicizing, and conducting a press conference if the family is being unreasonable? Wouldn't indulging delirious families harm CS's own reputation with the local press in whom they depend to work other cases?


http://wtax.com/news/101101-zhang-family-members-plead-for-her-whereabouts/

 

[rotary_dial]

I agree. BC seems to have not the least respect for women, therefore he could have a nice wife, a little mistress holding hands with in the open, and more sex partners after which he sought online. So I think, he didn't have respect for his female victim of abduction, Y., and didn't hesitate one second to murder that witness after he had had, what he wanted (or not). IMO of course.

Polyamory is a thing with some people. Having a wife, girlfriend, and random sex partners is not a problem with some people. As long as everyone is on the same page, it's not disrespectful to anyone involved.

This guy obviously has issues but having multiple partners and relationships or even extreme kinks is not a red flag to me. Obviously there's a problem when you involve people in your kink without their consent or take it to the extreme of kidnapping, sexual assault, or murder.

For the other people asking about incapacitation, I've known people who consent to taking xanax or ambien and allow their partner do whatever they want while passed out. It would be pretty easy to force someone at gunpoint to swallow a handful of pills (fast acting benzos like xanax) and have them totally incapacitated in a short amount of time. You could feed someone 20mg and they wouldn't die and they would probably be completely disoriented and hungover when they regained consciousness.



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[snowblossom2]

Xiaolin Houm, Yingying Zhang’s boyfriend says: “Our number one priority is to find Yingying” Meanwhile FBI removes her from the 'Kidnapping and Missing Persons' list

http://foxillinois.com/news/local/m...from-fbis-kidnapping-and-missing-persons-list

Yes, the timing of this removal in last couple days seems a bit odd. I asked awhile back, but never got an answer, IF the FBI routinely removes people from "missing person" list once they conclude the person is dead (even when no body located) -- if they do, why didn't they remove her from list 2+ weeks ago; why wait 'til now; what do they know now they didn't know over 2 wks. ago...

It is odd. I would think that they'd only remove someone if they found remains. Maybe there is video evidence so they know what happened to her, hence she's not missing?

Here is her profile on wayback time machine

http://web.archive.org/web/20170615024213/https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/yingying-zhang

 

[schroder]

You would think local Crime Stopper organizations are both busy and more acquainted with LE personnel and procedures than the average WebSleuther. So, here is my question: If this family is in denial or irrationally holding on to hope then: (1) Why would CS agree to up the reward money for tips leading to find Yinying?; (2) Why would CS even take it a step further and put together a press conference featuring the family pleading for tips?

The way this case is discussed here when approached to up the reward money CS should've told the Zhang's to trust LE is doing all they can and cite they have many other cases that need their attention. So, why indulge the parents if they are just deluded? Why go through the trouble of organizing, publicizing, and conducting a press conference if the family is being unreasonable? Wouldn't indulging delirious families harm CS's own reputation with the local press in whom they depend to work other cases?

http://wtax.com/news/101101-zhang-family-members-plead-for-her-whereabouts/

Because they care about what the FAMILY thinks and wants. The priority now and has always been for the family is to bring YY home. I doubt they really have much hope that YY is alive, like you are suggesting calling them delusional. Just because she is no longer alive doesnt mean the family should just give up, stop trying. They live in China, how can they leave a child in a foriegn country? The legal process is second on their minds, finding YY is top priority.