Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

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photographer4 said:
This is a bit of a backstory but it may not be the whole story. if he did this crime I hope we learn more about him. What prompted this and could anything have been done to stop it at any point? That is all I want to know.
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Yes 100 % - if he did this crime, all the normal “good man” stuff is just an act. And as we learn more, presumably there’ll be something else to indicate he’s not the standup guy he may seem. But…….. no criminal record at all?? When at first it seemed like he might’ve used an alias I thought that would be where it’s all hidden. But that’s been discarded so…. I guess no record. Very strange. Moo

I do feel confident LE has their man because they said so & cuz they spent so long looking for him. And the pics IMO are a match & the voice chillingly so. (I don’t care about the sketches, those are an irrelevant mess IMO & i haven’t looked at them since the YBG pic of Justin Timberlake came out)

But….. THIS is the life BG has lived? Very very strange. There’s got to be something out there to undermine his facade… there’s just got to be.
JMO
 
mrjitty said:
So some counterpoints for discussion

1. It was the accused who didn't get a lawyer for weeks, despite being entitled to one from the get go. I get he may not be sophisticated, but surely a lot of blames for slowness to challenge his detention sit with him.

2. Scheduling of the bail hearing is set by the judge, in consultation with the lawyers. Presumably the defence wants time to go through discovery, learn the case against the accused and then make an argument for release.

3. It isn't the case that the prosecution gets to hold him for 3 months based on secret evidence. Two judges decided to do that, based on an AA that the defence has access to. Why don't the defence make an urgent application for bail? They only applied 3 weeks after arrest, and agreed to scheduling next year!

So while I have some sympathy that bail hearings ought to be held speedily, I don't agree the government is doing what it wants contrary to the constitution. RA's detention is subject to judicial oversight and two judges agree there is probably cause to justify his detention so far. The defence have failed to challenge that.
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Yeah you are totally right on all these points & I’ll add …. if his attys are so sure he’s innocent & the evidence against him is so weak, why WOULDNT they demand a faster chance to bond him out? Would they really agree to leave their pure-as-snow client stuck unfairly in lockup through Thanksgiving, Christmas, the new year etc if they thought his chances of bonding out were so great? I’m not so sure
Moo

(Ps in case anyone notices, yes I realize I’m stating opposite positions from one post to the next …. I don’t have an opinion or belief one way or another & am just “thinking out loud”)
 
Marzipan said:
He’s innocent until proven guilty, but I agree this is no railroading attempt. LE must 100% believe it’s him. If they are wrong about his heinous criminal involvement in these murders, there is almost no hope to ever convict anyone. They will have lost credibility and faith.
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The prosecutor started the clock with an arrest. It is in their best interest to have the evidence in hand or at least enough to withstand the inevitable motions and hearings leading up to a trial. The ball is in the prosecutor’s course now. RA has every right to not delay a trial and if his defense attorney after reviewing the disclosure feels the case is weak they may push forth within the schedule the law provides. If prosecution doesn’t have proof positive presumption great that they arrested the right “guy” and charged the right crime bail will be given. Meanwhile we wait.
 
taylorss said:
Yeah you are totally right on all these points & I’ll add …. if his attys are so sure he’s innocent & the evidence against him is so weak, why WOULDNT they demand a faster chance to bond him out? Would they really agree to leave their pure-as-snow client stuck unfairly in lockup through Thanksgiving, Christmas, the new year etc if they thought his chances of bonding out were so great? I’m not so sure
Moo

(Ps in case anyone notices, yes I realize I’m stating opposite positions from one post to the next …. I don’t have an opinion or belief one way or another & am just “thinking out loud”)
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Devil's advocacy is a great way to tear apart puzzles - nothing wrong with that!

I'd like to know what the logic was on delaying the bail hearing from Jan to Feb; who argued for it and why.

There is a very strong emotional point in Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year, so I agree with you there. But also I know that most complex organisations start slowing down early November (to my frustration), so perhaps that holds no water with a judge.

Indiana reformed its criminal bail rules not long ago, apparently a chargee shouldn't be held without bail so long as he/she:

"does not present a substantial risk of flight or danger to self or others"

Arguably, mitigating the risk that RA might at the very least be a risk to himself under the circumstances is impossible to do outside of a prison/hospital setting. Seeing as he's been a free man since the murders - and with the ISP comments that he didn't pose a threat to others since that time - it could be as simple as 'danger to self' is presented here. Who knows.

hereforlife.com

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I feel like a broken record, but I have said from the very first press conference that I suspect that LE believes that there was more than one perp involved. I was not surprised to see LE recently confirm my suspicion. I am not, however, convinced that LE understands how the crime transpired and where and when the additional parties were involved. I also think that this helps explain the seemingly contradictory or confusing statements over the years. It's very frustrating to me as an observer, but I have always believed that LE uncovered something in the very first hours or days of the investigation that pointed to multiple perps.

I am linking my post from November 5 where I indicate my belief that LE believes that there are multiple perps.

www.websleuths.com

Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

Yes! I meant him. Need more coffee! Thanks for waking me up. So, we don’t really know if he really said that since it’s hearsay. Yeah, I would put it in the rumor category for now. The MS podcast's source might be 100% reliable, but we don't know that at this point.
www.websleuths.com www.websleuths.com
 
Trebor5591 said:
Have you heard Richard Allen's voice? I haven't. Would you please direct me to a link where Allen is recorded speaking, so I can hear for myself? Thank you!
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Hmm … right after he was arrested, lots of sleuthers combed through his appearances in other people’s SM (he had no SM of his own) & posted lots of pics & vids. I didn’t actually search any of it out myself, just saw what others found. Tho he appeared in a bunch of videos, he almost much never spoke… there was just one tiny snippet of him saying something… I might be able to find it again but I’m pretty sure that’s off-limits to post here .. right ?

Eta … ah jeez like always a bunch of other posters beat me to the point
 
Nikynoo said:
It has been discussed in a prior thread Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

Personally, from the clip, I believe that RA's voice is higher pitched than BG's
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Yeah I guess i should say … it’s not so much the voice itself, as far as pitch & other such qualities that can change with circumstance or presentation, as the manner of speaking, which involuntarily reveals things a speaker is unaware of

This will probably earn me laughs & ridicule here lol …. but the quality that jumps out at me is one that’s also present in a lot of Frank Sinatra’s singing (I admit I’m not a big fan lol but my father is) … we used to call this quality “deadvoice”

Curious if anyone else hears this too

IMO
 
taylorss said:
Hmm … right after he was arrested, lots of sleuthers combed through his appearances in other people’s SM (he had no SM of his own) & posted lots of pics & vids. I didn’t actually search any of it out myself, just saw what others found. Tho he appeared in a bunch of videos, he almost much never spoke… there was just one tiny snippet of him saying something… I might be able to find it again but I’m pretty sure that’s off-limits to post here .. right ?

Eta … ah jeez like always a bunch of other posters beat me to the point
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I would not at all be surprised to learn RA did in fact have social media accounts, using another name. If so, and if he is in fact the man responsible for murdering those sweet girls, it will come out eventually, and I think it will be entirely disgusting to find out where he had accounts, and what he was into on the interwebs.

jmo
 
Boxer said:
Even if the time here is in the interest of the defendant, sealing is a separate matter. Sealing is rare as court proceedings are public by law and public for good reason. The feeling someone is possibly being railroaded is valid as so far nothing but “we got him” has been made public.
Hard to understand what other suspect there would be who would not have already flown or destroyed evidence upon RAs arrest.
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Perhaps the “other person” involved is already dead? Maybe they still want to peruse proving a now deceased person was involved but don’t want to name them in the event that living family may seek to save the family name by covering it up further?
 
taylorss said:
Yes 100 % - if he did this crime, all the normal “good man” stuff is just an act. And as we learn more, presumably there’ll be something else to indicate he’s not the standup guy he may seem. But…….. no criminal record at all?? When at first it seemed like he might’ve used an alias I thought that would be where it’s all hidden. But that’s been discarded so…. I guess no record. Very strange. Moo

I do feel confident LE has their man because they said so & cuz they spent so long looking for him. And the pics IMO are a match & the voice chillingly so. (I don’t care about the sketches, those are an irrelevant mess IMO & i haven’t looked at them since the YBG pic of Justin Timberlake came out)

But….. THIS is the life BG has lived? Very very strange. There’s got to be something out there to undermine his facade… there’s just got to be.
JMO
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Devil’s advocate: I’d just like to remind people that loads of people have been wrongfully charged and even convicted because the police were sure of themselves. The case of Guy Paul Morin comes immediately to mind. He was the neighbour of Christine Jessop from Ontario, Canada who was abducted and killed in 1984. The police made a massive mess of the investigation and eventually settled on her next door neighbor as having been the man who took and killed her. Guy Paul Morin spent many horrible years in jail for this crime after being convicted - only to be completely exonerated years later by DNA that was recovered from the scene, which was not his. Many years later still, a family friend was proven to have been the culprit thanks to DNA advances.

Just because the police say they have their man, doesn’t mean they actually do. Even if they firmly believe it, it still doesn’t mean it is fact. We can only hope they have strong evidence to prove their case. No one wants an innocent man to go to jail for this, and no one wants a guilty man to get off scott free.
 
taylorss said:
But then he does match the BG pics to me JMO & his voice even more so.
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Trebor5591 said:
Have you heard Richard Allen's voice? I haven't. Would you please direct me to a link where Allen is recorded speaking, so I can hear for myself? Thank you!
Click to expand...
Tealgrove said:
It was on his wife’s FB which we are not permitted to sleuth and it is locked down now anyway.
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I heard a snippet of RA's voice in some YouTuber's video, and I agree that the voices are similar. However, I also know that two people from the same geographical area can sound uncannily similar. There are clips where Richard Burton sounds exactly like Dylan Thomas and vice versa. Guess what? They both grew up in the same county in Wales.

RA also resembles BG to me. The facial shape is right, and the height is right.

RA placed himself on the bridge that day. How many 5'6" guys with the right voice and facial shape could have been on that bridge on that day?

I think that they got the right guy, but I'm not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt yet.

At RA's hearing, prosecutors said that RA took a souvenir, and that's a big deal. If that can be proved, then that would be the nail in RA's coffin for me.

I sort of doubt anyone else was directly involved in the murders, though. I would like to see the arrest affidavit released immediately. Keeping it secret is too Kafkaesque for me. I understand the government's reasoning, but the reasons don't trump the public's right to transparency, in my opinion.
 
Charlot123 said:
To be honest, LE probably knew who RL's evening call was to. If RL called RA that evening, RA would be in ISP's periscope much sooner.

I can imagine him calling his young friend GK, for example, or equally upstanding citizen of Delphi and asking, "was it your doing?" But given that RL's life, activities, calls, all was tracked afterwards, I am positive that any connection with RA would have led to RA much sooner.
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IMO I wish I shared your confidence or rather blind faith, in LE.
 
Snipped for focus At RA's hearing, prosecutors said that RA took a souvenir, and that's a big deal. If that can be proved, then that would be the nail in RA's coffin for me.
Sorry for poor formatting.
They did? If prosecutors said at hearing that RA took a souvenir I totally missed that. Please confirm I understand you correctly.
 
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