Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[rosesfromangels]

As I said earlier. I'm in London, UK. Everyone I mention this case to, unless they've seen it mentioned on a forum or here or Reddit, has never heard of it. When I tell them that they have a pic taken by one girl of a man on the bridge and audio too, they just can't believe he hasn't been caught. I explain that it's not a clear pic and they've only released 3 words. Wonder if this would have been solved if it had been in a smaller country like here in the UK, with the pic and audio. Not criticising the US investigators at all.

As a man myself, and I don't mean to praise the evil killer in any way, but I think he was very brave to take on TWO girls. Why not let them go and wait for just one as one's much easier to overpower? What if one had been selfish and left her friend and got away and could identify him? He must have been armed with a gun or knife to feel that confident. Doubt I'd take on two teenage girls as these weren't little kids but then am not a monster or a rapist or killer.

We lost our 22 year-old daughter, only child, last year to Sads, sudden adult death, so we know what those poor parents will be going through. Imagine living in a small town too where you could pass the killer any time and not know it.

My amateur speculation is that either:
a) He has to silence one of the girls and he couldn’t wait on capturing them alone
B) They both knew the same thing and had to be silenced
C) He is an experienced sexual SK who had his murderous routine well perfected, and had possibly killed two at once before.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[tresir2012]

As I said earlier. I'm in London, UK. Everyone I mention this case to, unless they've seen it mentioned on a forum or here or Reddit, has never heard of it. When I tell them that they have a pic taken by one girl of a man on the bridge and audio too, they just can't believe he hasn't been caught. I explain that it's not a clear pic and they've only released 3 words. Wonder if this would have been solved if it had been in a smaller country like here in the UK, with the pic and audio. Not criticising the US investigators at all.

As a man myself, and I don't mean to praise the evil killer in any way, but I think he was very brave to take on TWO girls. People I mention the case to say the same. Why not let them go and wait for just one as one's much easier to overpower? What if one had been selfish and left her friend and got away and could identify him? He must have been armed with a gun or knife to feel that confident. Doubt I'd take on two teenage girls as these weren't little helpless kids but then am not a monster or a rapist or killer. Anything could have gone wrong from his point of view. In fact it did as she got audio and a pic of whom we assume is the killer.

We lost our 22 year-old daughter, only child, last year to SADS, sudden adult death, so we know what those poor parents will be going through. Imagine living in a small town too where you could pass the killer any time and not know it. Think I'd go mad.

My previous post was supposed to quote yours. So sorry to hear about your daughter.

I wanted to additionally say that one young female teen would be unusual on that trail IMO. And even more so now of course.

 

[crazychris]

So if it's your A or B you think one or both knew something and had to be silenced? Your opinion of course but I tend to think this was just opportunistic and he didn't know them or of them at all. Just felt very confident as he had a weapon. Pity one didn't get the chance to kick him where it hurts for a man.

 

[crazychris]

We do have a lot of CCTV here but not in very rural parts and on country roads. There's some but not as many as every few metres/yards like in towns and cities.

 

[crazychris]

My previous post was supposed to quote yours. So sorry to hear about your daughter.

Thanks. We know what those two sets of parents must be going through as to lose a child at a young age is just awful and no-one can know what it's like unless you've been through it. An absolute nightmare as their whole future has just gone.

 

[rosesfromangels]

So if it's your A or B you think one or both knew something and had to be silenced? Your opinion of course but I tend to think this was just opportunistic and he didn't know them or of them at all. Just felt very confident as he had a weapon. Pity one didn't get the chance to kick him where it hurts for a man.

If forced to choose one I would say C.

 

[HotDog]

I’m curious what song was being quoted in a FB post that I see talked about here in some prior comments. Does anyone have the quote? It should be easy enough to just take it, put it inside quote marks and google it along with terms like “lyrics” and “song” etc. Then Rap Genuis or Google lyrics etc should easily bring it up. I missed the discussion of it so I don’t have the quote otherwise I’d just do the legwork myself. Just a thought!

 

[KyDistiller]

Delete

 

[Imvp2]

So if it's your A or B you think one or both knew something and had to be silenced? Your opinion of course but I tend to think this was just opportunistic and he didn't know them or of them at all. Just felt very confident as he had a weapon. Pity one didn't get the chance to kick him where it hurts for a man.

MOO I think the outline on the right side of his jacket, is that, a weapon. It looks to be pretty well worn.

 

[Krwiley60]

As I said earlier. I'm in London, UK. Everyone I mention this case to, unless they've seen it mentioned on a forum or here or Reddit, has never heard of it. It was mentioned in a thread on a big forum, Digital Spy, recently, about unsolved crimes. When I tell them that they have a pic taken by one girl of a man on the bridge and audio too, they just can't believe he hasn't been caught. I explain that it's not a clear pic and they've only released 3 words. Wonder if this would have been solved if it had been in a smaller country like here in the UK, with the pic and audio. Not criticising the US investigators at all.

As a man myself, and I don't mean to praise the evil killer in any way, but I think he was very brave to take on TWO girls. People I mention the case to say the same. Why not let them go and wait for just one as one's much easier to overpower? What if one had been selfish and left her friend and got away and could identify him? He must have been armed with a gun or knife to feel that confident. Doubt I'd take on two teenage girls as these weren't little helpless kids, but teens who surely will fight back, but then am not a monster or a rapist or killer. Anything could have gone wrong from his point of view. In fact it did as she got audio and a pic of whom we assume is the killer.

We lost our 22 year-old daughter, only child, last year to SADS, sudden adult death, so we know what those poor parents will be going through. Imagine living in a small town too where you could pass the killer any time and not know it. Think I'd go mad.

I’m so very sorry for your loss. My sincere condolences to you and your family.

 

[TL4S]

So if it's your A or B you think one or both knew something and had to be silenced? Your opinion of course but I tend to think this was just opportunistic and he didn't know them or of them at all. Just felt very confident as he had a weapon. Pity one didn't get the chance to kick him where it hurts for a man.

I agree. With a weapon, and maybe a way to restrain them (duct tape, twine, cuffs... what have you) together, you effectually have only one person to control. I know...far-fetched. Just something I've considered.

 

[HockeyMom330]

My amateur speculation is that either:
a) He has to silence one of the girls and he couldn’t wait on capturing them alone
B) They both knew the same thing and had to be silenced
C) He is an experienced sexual SK who had his murderous routine well perfected, and had possibly killed two at once before.

Amateur opinion and speculation

If this was a targeted crime I vote for (B). BG would have to assume that Libby and Abby shared secrets based on the closeness of their friendship, and they did have a sleepover together the night before. He might have found out, or simply assumed, that the girls shared some 'sensitive' information that could incriminate or disgrace him. Maybe murdering them both in the woods was an attempt to make the crime look like a sexual assault or abduction gone wrong, and thus lead LE in the wrong direction.

If this was not a targeted crime then I think (C) is a possiblity, but I'm not convinced that BG is an experienced sexual serial killer, especially if he is only in his early twenties. He might be a budding serial killer, but at this point BG has not been conclusively linked to any previous crimes (not even Lizze & Lyric in Iowa) nor any crimes committed since Feb. 13, 2017. Some serial killers go through 'cooling off periods' where there are many years between kills, so this may be the case for BG. If he is still in the Delphi area he might be laying low, knowing that the heat is on. Or he may have moved many miles or states away to start a new life.

There are 4 basic types of serial killers:
1. Power and Control: these SK are sociopaths who achieve sexual gratification from dominating and humilating their victims. They like to stalk their victims.
2. Visionary: these SK are psychotic and kill based on hearing voices or having vision which compel them to murder specific victims.
3. Mission: these SK feel a duty to kill certain types/classes of victims such as religous or racial groups or prostitues.
4. Hedonistic: these SK can also be desribed as 'lust' or 'thrill' killers. Their mind connects violence and sexual gratification. They tend to torture or mutilate vicitms.

Based on DC saying 'we know this is about power to you' at the April presser I have jumped to the conclusion that BG best fits with #1.

 

[SkipperKey3]

If this was a targeted crime I vote for (B). BG would have to assume that Libby and Abby shared secrets based on the closeness of their friendship, and they did have a sleepover together the night before. He might have found out, or simply assumed, that the girls shared some 'sensitive' information that could incriminate or disgrace him. Maybe murdering them both in the woods was an attempt to make the crime look like a sexual assault or abduction gone wrong, and thus lead LE in the wrong direction.

If this was not a targeted crime then I think (C) is a possiblity, but I'm not convinced that BG is an experienced sexual serial killer, especially if he is only in his early twenties. He might be a budding serial killer, but at this point BG has not been conclusively linked to any previous crimes (not even Lizze & Lyric in Iowa) nor any crimes committed since Feb. 13, 2017. Some serial killers go through 'cooling off periods' where there are many years between kills, so this may be the case for BG. If he is still in the Delphi area he might be laying low, knowing that the heat is on. Or he may have moved many miles or states away to start a new life.

There are 4 basic types of serial killers:
1. Power and Control: these SK are sociopaths who achieve sexual gratification from dominating and humilating their victims. They like to stalk their victims.
2. Visionary: these SK are psychotic and kill based on hearing voices or having vision which compel them to murder specific victims.
3. Mission: these SK feel a duty to kill certain types/classes of victims such as religous or racial groups or prostitues.
4. Hedonistic: these SK can also be desribed as 'lust' or 'thrill' killers. Their mind connects violence and sexual gratification. They tend to torture or mutilate vicitms.

Based on DC saying 'we know this is about power to you' at the April presser I have jumped to the conclusion that BG best fits with #1.

I tend to agree. I really don't see much reason to believe that this was any kind of "targeted" crime. I tend to think that the only way it may have been "targeted" is if they had somehow made him mad earlier in their walk, even inadvertently. Even that is a bit of a stretch, but I can see it. Otherwise, it seems more like a crime of opportunity. I just don't see a lot of credibility in the suggestions given that indicate how BG could have known they would be at the bridge that day, that time. To me, this crime screams of the girls being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
JMO, of course.

 

[sub2change]

I’m curious what song was being quoted in a FB post that I see talked about here in some prior comments. Does anyone have the quote? It should be easy enough to just take it, put it inside quote marks and google it along with terms like “lyrics” and “song” etc. Then Rap Genuis or Google lyrics etc should easily bring it up. I missed the discussion of it so I don’t have the quote otherwise I’d just do the legwork myself. Just a thought!

I think this is what you are looking for Singing Contractors make song, video tribute to murdered Delphi teens

 

[Theforeigner]

I’m curious what song was being quoted in a FB post that I see talked about here in some prior comments. Does anyone have the quote? It should be easy enough to just take it, put it inside quote marks and google it along with terms like “lyrics” and “song” etc. Then Rap Genuis or Google lyrics etc should easily bring it up. I missed the discussion of it so I don’t have the quote otherwise I’d just do the legwork myself. Just a thought!

"A song lyric by artist Eminem"
But no such lyrics exist !

 

[crazychris]

I’m so very sorry for your loss. My sincere condolences to you and your family.

Thanks a lot.

 

[crazychris]

I tend to agree. I really don't see much reason to believe that this was any kind of "targeted" crime. I tend to think that the only way it may have been "targeted" is if they had somehow made him mad earlier in their walk, even inadvertently
JMO, of course.

Sometimes these days though you can't even look or glance at someone without them getting angry. I mean you've got to look somewhere but they start on to you "what are you lookin at?" or "some problem mate?" and it can easily out of hand and turn violent. I was once laughing at a funny joke that someone had texted me and a guy in front turned round and accused me of laughing at him. Some very strange people about these days. Could have been something as minor as them looking at him but probably he was just a crazed man waiting to kill that day.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

The new sketch - makes the killer look like a cheerful milk-fed athlete. All-American as apple pie. Centerfield in the minor leagues.

 

[rosesfromangels]

The new sketch - makes the killer look like a cheerful milk-fed athlete. All-American as apple pie. Centerfield in the minor leagues.

And perhaps by all outward appearances, he is.

 

[Cutiekitty]

This is a post by @MistyWaters back in May that I just ran across while running a search. BBM

(Just a clarification, LE have stated the words were spoken during criminal activity, not shortly before. It was the video that was described as “about to occur”.

“She also captured a man's voice saying "down the hill" during what police call "criminal activity.”
DELPHI: Premature to link St. Louis attack

“German’s quick thinking in the face of fear prompted Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocom to pronounce her a “hero.” That young lady is a hero, that is no doubt,” Slocom told reporters. “To have enough presence of mind to activate the video system on her cell phone to record what we believe is criminal behavior about to occur, there is no doubt in our mind that she is a hero.”..”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana)

So, as I interpret what MistyWaters was showing, the bolded part makes me think the audio "down the hill" part is not a continuation of the video. To me that means the audio was made completely separate, at a later time. How much later, we don't know, but clearly only minutes later, as other sources have said the video was within minutes of their death.

I've also read, but don't have a link, that LE said the murder itself was not recorded. Anyone?

If that's true, than why wasn't it? My phone only records for 1 minute intervals, but I know nothing about iPhones. And when Libby's dad was trying to call her, has it ever been stated whether the phone went right to voicemail, as in the phone was off already, or did that happen later?

I'm just wondering what happened to the phone and recording. Did it just stop, and the phone died, did it get wet, did it get smashed? Unfortunately, I'm guessing none of this information is public knowledge...

BBM - the Sheriff made that statement in one of the Renner interviews.

I agree with @MistyWaters and I don’t think the audio is a continuation of the video. Personally, I think the video was made with SC. They were using it shortly before BG’s appearance and that makes sense to me. SC videos are also not the best quality. I’m not 100% sure that she was even intentionally trying to capture BG at that point.

I think the audio was intentionally made using the video function on the phone - You can record some pretty long videos. If the phone battery dies, you run out of storage OR if you receive a phone call the video/audio automatically stops. He could’ve smashed the phone too of course.

Just my opinion and it’s not the popular one so take it for what it’s worth.

Edit: I should say I agree with what I think @MistyWaters was saying.