Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[CelticIre]

oh, totally agree that someone else has power of this perp, and has for quite a long time.

I believe DC meant that the act of murdering the girls and escaping undetected is about the killer's perceived power and sense of ego and dominance.

 

[TL4S]

I think it would have been extremely risky and highly unlikely that he transported them elsewhere, killed them, and then returned to drag and dump their bodies at the park. At night. When there were still people abroad and searching the area. I just don't credit that idea with much weight. In my view, it's much more likely that he killed them there and left them there.

Yeah, I hope I didn't sound like I thought they'd been brought back. I don't think he transported or moved them at all! I think it's possible he parked at the cemetery, which is why he killed them nearby...for a quick getaway. Or that the location the girls were found was actually near where the true encounter occurred.

 

[Boxer]

I think it would have been extremely risky and highly unlikely that he transported them elsewhere, killed them, and then returned to drag and dump their bodies at the park. At night. When there were still people abroad and searching the area. I just don't credit that idea with much weight. In my view, it's much more likely that he killed them there and left them there.

MOO no one, even if it is two people are capable of secretly moving two dead bodies during a search. Alive, possibly they could be marched later to the place of their death. Medical examiner likely provided the certain answer to when they died.

 

[Teche]

Clarification : I am disabled, but I do not require the use of oxygen or a wheelchair. I could not imagine anyone who required the use of oxygen doing this. Moreover, I stand firm behind the notion that if a respirator were that visible to the general, amateur public then LE would have noticed it, a witness would have noticed it, and it would have been noted on the sketch or description.

I like thinking out of the box, but that is not what this is to me.

Maybe he vapes?!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Maybe he vapes?!

Or tokes...

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[raja]

Without going into graphic detail, anyone who has ever worked in a morgue or funeral home, or has observed preparation of bodies for either can tell you that draining one body of blood and fluids is a time-consuming task. There are certain tools and apparati/equipment needed for such things. Draining two bodies in the middle of the woods would have been stupefyingly ambitious and highly unlikely.

In short... No, I do not think so.

Yes to do a proper job would be an impossibility. An attempt maybe, by a deranged person.

 

[Rosegold68]

im wondering are there any juvenile detention centres local ish to Delphi?

watching 'girls incarcerated" got me wondering about that kind of thing, just my rambling thoughts

 

[Fizzle]

Do we know that BG forced them in the direction of the crime scene? Perhaps they went with him willingly. Not to do anything bad, but kids/teens can be naive.

I wouldn’t have thought this was likely, but I’m bothered by how much difficult terrain and distance they had to cover. It would have been much easier for him if he had some sort of scheme to get them up there at their own free will.

Also, just trying to think outside the box since LE made a comment about us getting it all wrong (that is not a direct quote, but I will look for the link. It was about the re-enactments on YouTube etc being off-base).

 

[ACE422]

At some point, we will learn more about the search that evening. I am still on the fence as to whether he took them somewhere, and then brought them back to murder and display them. A good tracker would know almost immediately. However, we don’t know enough about where the children were left to determine more.

I still keep thinking about the proximity to the graveyard, as well as the attack happening just before Valentine’s Day.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think where the girls were found is the approximate area where they were killed. The cell phone was located near their bodies. Had the killer murdered them, then moved them to a different area, I do not think the cell phone would have been located near their bodies. MOO

 

[CelticIre]

Yeah, I hope I didn't sound like I thought they'd been brought back. I don't think he transported or moved them at all! I think it's possible he parked at the cemetery, which is why he killed them nearby...for a quick getaway. Or that the location the girls were found was actually near where the true encounter occurred.

No, I didn't think you were concurring with that theory at all; I was attempting to follow up on the thread/thought. Apologies if I gave any confusion there.

But I do agree that the cemetery is an extremely viable escape path.

 

[TL4S]

Do we know that BG forced them in the direction of the crime scene? Perhaps they went with him willingly. Not to do anything bad, but kids/teens can be naive.

I wouldn’t have thought this was likely, but I’m bothered by how much difficult terrain and distance they had to cover. It would have been much easier for him if he had some sort of scheme to get them up there at their own free will.

Also, just trying to think outside the box since LE made a comment about us getting it all wrong (that is not a direct quote, but I will look for the link. It was about the re-enactments on YouTube etc being off-base).

The fact that LE said the bridge video happened when "criminal behavior was about to occur" and the audio "down the hill" happened "during criminal activity" leads me to assume they never went with him willingly. That's just my interpretation of those comments, though. Others have felt differently.

 

[Fizzle]

Thank you. I can see that as well. Regardless of whether they went willingly or not from the start, I could see that being called “criminal activity” if he was luring them. But obviously LE knows one way or the other thanks to the audio recording. Have they said that the audio follows directly from the end of the video or could it have been a bit later? Wouldn’t it take 20-30 minutes to walk from the bridge to the crime scene?

I’d put greater odds on weapons and/or threats being used from the start. Just trying to think about other scenarios. Reminds me of those Dateline shows where they’d show how easily kids can be lured away, even in groups, with various tricks. These girls seem too old to fall for the puppy or candy, but maybe something like seeing/riding horses or a secret lookout point or something.

The fact that LE said the bridge video happened when "criminal behavior was about to occur" and the audio "down the hill" happened "during criminal activity" leads me to assume they never went with him willingly. That's just my interpretation of those comments, though. Others have felt differently.

 

[Rosegold68]

that makes sense to Mei don’t think they would be lured by the promise of anything

But at gunpoint/knifepoint then that could be a viable scenario in my mind

 

[Fizzle]

If you’ve seen or read The Green Mile, there is a horrifying and haunting scene where two little girls are abducted & it is their love for each other that the murderer uses to lure them away quietly. I think something similar happened that day and it makes my heart ache. MOO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

A source familiar with the investigation described the full recording as "the stuff of nightmares."
Police Release Sketch of Suspect, 5 Months After Murder of Indiana Teens

I know the above quotation has led to many a gruesome theories, and it is a deeply unsettling statement to be sure. However, there's also this statement:

Renner : Is the attack itself on the recording?
Leazenby: Err...No.

The source came from an earlier post by @Spy Versus Spy when I asked about this quote.
[It's from Episode 10 of the Renner series of interviews : Virtually a Detective: Case #101 Delphi. @1m.17s]

Maybe it's my own wishful thinking, but "the stuff of nightmares" doesn't necessarily mean anything extraordinarily creepy or demented. Listening to the girls being led to their deaths is probably nightmarish on its own. We simply don't know.

Carter's quote in this interview leads me to believe that there may be audio and/or video of the crime taking place, but maybe they want to keep this hand close to their vest.

Quoted below is bbm.

"The recording was longer than what has been released. Police won't release anymore to protect the integrity of the investigation, but they've seen the video and likely won't be able to stop thinking about it."

"Imagine what that must be like, it's generally and very likely will be one of the last things these ladies and gentleman see for the rest of their lives before they go to sleep," said Carter."

Delphi teen records suspect before her death; police hope it leads to arrest

I cannot begin to fathom what they (LE, FBI, D.A.) have seen and heard on that recording.

My heart breaks at the thought of Abby and Libby's last hour(s) every day when I think of them.

This next quote below always hits me emotionally when I read it. I get tears every single time.

"She did it. She did it, and one day I'm going to thank her," said Carter

There is such a dedicated team trying so hard to find and arrest this monster.

I hope his days of freedom are coming to an end.

JMO

 

[ScumbagTrav]

I just gotta ask...

What's with the constant MOO/JMO/Speculation and Opinion tags?

Seems....idk...weird and unnecessary. I've never seen a board where it this was a thing. And some times their use doesnt even make sense. ‍

 

[insearchoflight]

I just gotta ask...

What's with the constant MOO/JMO/Speculation and Opinion tags?

Seems....idk...weird and unnecessary. I've never seen a board where it this was a thing. And some times their use doesnt even make sense. ‍

If you aren’t quoting a main stream media article/interview/press conference and providing a link, you are supposed to be clear it’s only your opinion or speculation so that it is not mistaken as fact.

 

[TL4S]

Carter's quote in this interview leads me to believe that there may be audio and/or video of the crime taking place, but maybe they want to keep this hand close to their vest.

Quoted below is bbm.

"The recording was longer than what has been released. Police won't release anymore to protect the integrity of the investigation, but they've seen the video and likely won't be able to stop thinking about it."

"Imagine what that must be like, it's generally and very likely will be one of the last things these ladies and gentleman see for the rest of their lives before they go to sleep," said Carter."

Delphi teen records suspect before her death; police hope it leads to arrest

I cannot begin to fathom what they (LE, FBI, D.A.) have seen and heard on that recording.

My heart breaks at the thought of Abby and Libby's last hour(s) every day when I think of them.

This next quote below always hits me emotionally when I read it. I get tears every single time.

"She did it. She did it, and one day I'm going to thank her," said Carter

There is such a dedicated team trying so hard to find and arrest this monster.

I hope his days of freedom are coming to an end.

JMO

Ugh...I honestly don't want to even know what's on the video/audio. Like you said, heartbreaking. I know some people want all that released because they think it'd be helpful, but I honestly don't think everyone would be as emotionally prepared as they think.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Ugh...I honestly don't want to even know what's on the video/audio. Like you said, heartbreaking. I know some people want all that released because they think it'd be helpful, but I honestly don't think everyone would be as emotionally prepared as they think.

Agree!
I don't think anything could prepare you emotionally to hear something like that.

The people that do these jobs every single day have my utmost respect.

JMO

 

[PezCandy]

Whatever else is on video must be pretty bad, frightening, “stuff of nightmares”. I really think that it’s just awful what they had to go thru, the girls, the family, LE. I’ve seen many people complain about LE not being fast enough, not giving enough details etc but they have a hard job honestly, I think they deserve a lot of credit. I’m hoping what all they have for evidence will lead to an arrest.