Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[taximama24]

"you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy"

To what strategy does the man who made this comment refer?

I've always found it curious that LE chose to use the phrase "investigative strategy" when speaking directly to BG in the PC. That is not layman's speak, the large majority of us do not distinguish the various components that make up the whole conglomerate of LE's work on the case. The more likely phrase to ring on the community's ears would have been to leave it at shift gears, or to say shift gears in our investigation. IMO, LE was speaking to a well versed adult. I think BG is someone who to the outside world has a reason to stay well informed on the investigation and doesn't perk anyone's ears, but LE knows his true motive is to know how close they are to exposing him.

yes. she said he stopped by to see how she was. she also said they spoke about getting her an internship.

Not that DC is not a nice guy to check on her or that KG doesn't deserve an internship (all of which could be talked about on the phone) but another reason DC might stop by physically is to send a message to BG, who may have ties to KG. It could be that they feel without an arrest BG is settling comfortably into having gotten away with murder, and by showing up at her house they may hope to rattle him out of it again by their mere presence, or cause him to wonder incessantly about whether anything has changed, and see how he reacts.

 

[tresir2012]

I have to disagree with you on the two killers angle; there's no evidence for that whatsoever. There's a 99% chance that these murders were sexually motivated, and sexual-homicide tag teams are rare.

The different strategy might be as simple as their having abandoned the OBG sketch for in favor of the NBG sketch. The strategy might also include trying to crack the alibis of people cleared during the early days of the investigation.

But both sketches are now back in play right?

 

[tresir2012]

“Maybe in the future no one else will be murdered in my backyard,” Logan told Carroll Superior Judge Kurtis Fouts, apparently to the surprise of his own attorney, when asked if he wished to speak up for himself.
Delphi property owner gets nearly four years in jail for traffic charges

What an interesting thing to say to a Judge.

Well since seeing the plea deals done for many more serious crimes, I have always wondered about the severity of this sentence and the message being sent.

 

[margarita25]

Who Killed Abby and Libby? 'Mindhunter' John Douglas Offers Insight Into Delphi Murders
May 15, 2019

“He added that the person who killed the two likely has some kind of "criminal history."

"You don't wake up one day and commit a double homicide like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of trail."

 

[JnRyan]

Are you thinking that due to the fact that there were two victims? I think going after two victims was a matter of necessity. This guy was too much of a coward to have tried snatching a girl off the street, in front of her house, let's say. His cowardice compelled him to troll for victims in a remote area, where no one was around besides him and his victims and where he could control all aspects of his crime. What were his chances of finding a young female victim alone near the Monon High Bridge? Odds are one of the girls was his "type" and the other was collateral damage. I also think this guy is afraid of adult women, so for him going after two teen girls was a no-brainer if the alternative was to go after a lone adult female. Even with a gun, he couldn't have handled a grown woman.

I also believe it was a lone killer. The Golden State Killer controlled pairs on many occasions. So did the Zodiak killer. And these were adults. I do find it interesting that LE throughout this whole case refers to 'he', singular, but when asked if there could be two, they state it is possible. They don't rule it out. And we don't have all the info LE does.
The theory that this guy doesn't go after an adult woman, but two young girls is interesting. He feels too intimidated by an adult female to go after such a victim? Not being able to control such a victim is mental thing, because he should be able to control an adult with a gun? That thought makes me wonder what this guy is like around women in his daily routines.

 

[margarita25]

It seems I’ll be continuing in yesterday’s tradition of Opposite Day lol:

Here’s another theory I don’t agree with, that there is more than one person involved.

The only way I can see that turning out is if their murders were a targeted hit, which is not totally off the table imo but not at the top of my list.

Otherwise, when considering the evidence of the images and audio, this fully appears to be a single, male perp. While LE made a very broad comment at one time early on, that basically they’re not ruling anything out, there has been no indication from LE imo that someone in addition to BG is suspected, moo.

IF there happens to be someone else involved, then it would be that the girls’ murders were a targeted hit and BG was the hit man-this is if maybe they saw or knew about something they shouldn’t have.

Again, this is based strictly on my interpretation of what LE has given us. JMO.

 

[Ozoner]

I also believe it was a lone killer. The Golden State Killer controlled pairs on many occasions. So did the Zodiak killer. And these were adults. I do find it interesting that LE throughout this whole case refers to 'he', singular, but when asked if there could be two, they state it is possible. They don't rule it out. And we don't have all the info LE does.
The theory that this guy doesn't go after an adult woman, but two young girls is interesting. He feels too intimidated by an adult female to go after such a victim? Not being able to control such a victim is mental thing, because he should be able to control an adult with a gun? That thought makes me wonder what this guy is like around women in his daily routines.

BBM
-
He probably has (or had, if she's deceased) a domineering mother. He's probably sexually inadequate. He may have some female friends who would never in a million years consider him anything more.

 

[MJPeony]

Doug Carter has walked across the High Bridge himself. He’s even kept a piece of it and said he’ll carry it with him until he finds out who BG is.

“This is very personal to me. And maybe it’s because I’m in the sunset of my career, but it’s the epitome of evil. Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional, but I think of Abby and Libby all the time. I have their names etched in my desk. I think about them all the time, I think about their families and the community and what I saw in that community. It was like nothing I’ve ever experienced before.”

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

He was very emotional in the April presser. At that time I thought it was because he knew who BG was but there wasn't enough evidence to charge someone, and that may well be true. However I think he struggles with his emotions because he's a very sensitive and caring man who genuinely cares for others and feels their pain.

I saw a 02:46 minute YouTube video the other day where he addressed the wife and daughter at the funeral of another officer who died when his car crashed into a utility pole while on the way to assist another officer who had called for assistance. His demeanour was exactly the same as he displayed at the presser.

Thank you for this! Fascinating. Exact same demeanor. I’d been searching online for another video of him that I thought existed regarding the Amanda Blackburn case- in order to compare demeanors- but came up empty handed. This one you posted is great.

For me, this video leads me, even more than I was already, to believe that the April presser didn’t have as much hidden language and meaning behind his emotion as could be interpreted. I think a tendency for us is to equate his long pauses, need to collect himself, physical gestures like hand holding his forehead and mouth, etc with it meaning that BG is like his lieutenant or something. Instead, I think this is just how he speaks when talking about something personally distressing to him. I think it’s safe to say two young girls being murdered like A and L is probably the most distressing case he’s ever worked on. (MOO).

I do think his presser was carefully scripted for the most part, but I just don’t think his visible emotion is a secret clue to who BG is. Or that there is a hidden meaning behind The Shack for example.


MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

I do think there could be an accomplice. Someone who came and helped him or picked him up or even moved and hid the bodies. I am not ruling this out at all. The two sketches are both still on my mind, as well as the BG video and voice.

 

[Falling Down]

To me, knowing that the house on the south bank of Deer Creek was empty is one of the strongest indicators that he's very local.

There's a clear line of sight from the house to where they would have crossed the creek.

He had to have known the owner wasn't home, and may have even known RL wasn't home, although the latter wouldn't be nearly as important.

 

[MingyMoo]

It seems I’ll be continuing in yesterday’s tradition of Opposite Day lol:

Here’s another theory I don’t agree with, that there is more than one person involved.

The only way I can see that turning out is if their murders were a targeted hit, which is not totally off the table imo but not at the top of my list.

Otherwise, when considering the evidence of the images and audio, this fully appears to be a single, male perp. While LE made a very broad comment at one time early on, that basically they’re not ruling anything out, there has been no indication from LE imo that someone in addition to BG is suspected, moo.

IF there happens to be someone else involved, then it would be that the girls’ murders were a targeted hit and BG was the hit man-this is if maybe they saw or knew about something they shouldn’t have.

Again, this is based strictly on my interpretation of what LE has given us. JMO.

I think we all change our minds daily. One of us will be right somewhere with all the different scenarios presented. Dont forget we are all filling in gaps and don't have the info LE have. Therefore speculation will be the only thing we have. Speculation leads us all down various rabbit holes for which I think we can be forgiven most the time.

As always

MingyMoo

 

[Falling Down]

Are you thinking that due to the fact that there were two victims? I think going after two victims was a matter of necessity. This guy was too much of a coward to have tried snatching a girl off the street, in front of her house, let's say. His cowardice compelled him to troll for victims in a remote area, where no one was around besides him and his victims and where he could control all aspects of his crime. What were his chances of finding a young female victim alone near the Monon High Bridge? Odds are one of the girls was his "type" and the other was collateral damage. I also think this guy is afraid of adult women, so for him going after two teen girls was a no-brainer if the alternative was to go after a lone adult female. Even with a gun, he couldn't have handled a grown woman.

This was a well-planned fantasy, IMO. He planned it weeks or even months in advance, and I agree about the age angle. He went after two juvenile girls, not an adult woman, and there were adult women out there alone earlier that day.

He was out hunting, and wanted to trap the most vulnerable prey that came along at the end of the bridge.

 

[margarita25]

BBM
-
He probably has (or had, if she's deceased) a domineering mother. He's probably sexually inadequate. He may have some female friends who would never in a million years consider him anything more.

Interesting you mentioned that. I’ve been thinking a lot about @Foxfire and comments he’s made about SK’s, particularly Gary Ridgway. I was reading up on GR yesterday again.

“His home life was somewhat troubled; relatives have described his mother as domineering”

Gary Ridgway - Wikipedia

——

This was a well-planned fantasy, IMO. He planned it weeks or even months in advance, and I agree about the age angle. He went after two juvenile girls, not an adult woman, and there were adult women out there alone earlier that day.

He was out hunting, and wanted to trap the most vulnerable prey that came along at the end of the bridge.

This is classic ARS and Jessica Ridgeway. ARS has originally preyed on an adult jogger months before he murdered little Jessica. The presumption here is that he went for a more vulnerable victim.

Again this is another reason why I’m very strong about him possibly having other MOs- William Reece also killed both older and younger victims. I’m not sure that BG’s only victims are juveniles.

Again, with reference to Gary Ridgway, many of his victims were prostitutes. I can see this being the case with BG as well, moo.

—-

“Often, he would want to have sex in a public area or in the woods.[7]Ridgway himself admitted to having a fixation with sex workers,[11] with whom he had a love/hate relationship. He frequently complained about their presence in his neighborhood, but he also took advantage of their services regularly. Some have speculated that Ridgway was torn between his lusts and his staunch religious beliefs.”

(ETA: The above BBM sounds straight out of the April PC, moo.)

—

Again, I’m interested in any murders of sex workers in other surrounding areas and cities.

—-

ETA: This is interesting:

“Ridgway occasionally contaminated the dump sites with gum, cigarettes, and written materials belonging to others, and he even transported a few victims' remains across state lines into Oregon to confuse the police.[12]”

—-

FTR, I’m not sure how much BG may or may not be similar to GR - it seems GR was into necrophilia as well.

 

[margarita25]

if he is a SK and this scene was staged, there should be elements of staging in other killings, too. Different ones, but some.

Indeed, which is why I’m dying to know about this. For example, right now I’m trying to find similar cases in another WS case where the crime scene was staged ($20 left at scene, victim’s golf clubs pointing to body, etc.).

I’m also dying to know about SA simply for the reason of narrowing down what type of perp we are looking for as related to motive. I’m pretty confidant it’s SA MOO but we just don’t know for sure as this hasn’t been released. I’m not sure how revealing this particular element could compromise the integrity of the investigation, but LE has their reasons it seems.

 

[Vesta66S]

I remember watching Bundy being interviewed when it was getting close to his execution and him being asked what he thought was the contributor to his serial killing, what had led him there. It was a chillingly frank and quick answer, and all this is paraphrasing, he said he thought *advertiser censored* twisted his mind. He said he started very young viewing it and it became a lifelong obsession.

I know not every person viewing *advertiser censored* has it turn into to a problem. Not every viewer becomes an attacker of women but I feel in his case it incubated a misogyny his environment generated early and then helped turn that violent.

I think back on that Bundy interview and wonder if BG is also cut from this cloth, this background to prey on those he considers minimal, even when in the form of two sweet and innocent young girls.

Bundy just blamed the *advertiser censored* as an excuse to kill. I think they explained this on Bundy tapes on Netflix.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Bundy just blamed the *advertiser censored* as an excuse to kill. I think they explained this on Bundy tapes on Netflix.

I think it depends on what type of *advertiser censored* he was watching, meaning of it was from the dark web type *advertiser censored*.

In general, I do think dwelling on whether viewing this type of material normalizes or accelerates any antisocial or criminal behaviors depicted, is a worthy study.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MJPeony]

Bundy just blamed the *advertiser censored* as an excuse to kill. I think they explained this on Bundy tapes on Netflix.

Oh I don’t necessarily agree. I think it’s reasonable to believe that obsessive *advertiser censored*-watching starting in youth could lead to objectification of women, dysfunctional and unfulfilling relationships with women, and violence towards women (especially if the *advertiser censored* had violent elements). And in Bundy’s case, this of course was combined with psychopathic issues. Yes, I actually think it’s very possible, and even likely, that *advertiser censored* obsession contributed to Bundy’s massacres.

I don’t see it as an excuse. I see it as a legitimate contributer. Bundy was responsible for himself and his actions at all stages of his development and decisions. Believing *advertiser censored* contributed doesn’t need to contradict or excuse that.

I haven’t yet watched the Netflix show, so I can’t say first hand what “they” claim to explain or know- But just because someone on the Netflix show claims to say *advertiser censored* wasn’t a factor doesn’t make me think it’s fact. It’s an opinion. They can’t possibly know Bundy’s heart and mind. JMO.


MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

So who would have known that both properties were empty that day?

Find that out and maybe find the killer.
JMO.

 

[margarita25]

I remember watching Bundy being interviewed when it was getting close to his execution and him being asked what he thought was the contributor to his serial killing, what had led him there. It was a chillingly frank and quick answer, and all this is paraphrasing, he said he thought *advertiser censored* twisted his mind. He said he started very young viewing it and it became a lifelong obsession.

I know not every person viewing *advertiser censored* has it turn into to a problem. Not every viewer becomes an attacker of women but I feel in his case it incubated a misogyny his environment generated early and then helped turn that violent.

I think back on that Bundy interview and wonder if BG is also cut from this cloth, this background to prey on those he considers minimal, even when in the form of two sweet and innocent young girls.

I remember that! and also how it made me think about pronography .

Bundy just blamed the *advertiser censored* as an excuse to kill. I think they explained this on Bundy tapes on Netflix.

Serial Killer Ted Bundy Describes Dangers Of *advertiser censored* The Night Before His Execution

“*advertiser censored* Was A Factor
The night before his death, Bundy was interviewed by Dr. James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family. In one segment, Bundy told Dr. Dobson about the effect his *advertiser censored* addiction had on his life.

“Like most other kinds of addiction,“ he said, “I would keep looking for more potent, more explicit, more graphic kinds of material. Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder, harder, something which gives you a greater sense of excitement. Until you reach the point that *advertiser censored* only goes so far…”

Bundy added,

“I’ve lived in prison a long time now. I’ve met a lot of men who were motivated to commit violence just like me. And without exception, every one of them was deeply involved in *advertiser censored*. Without question, without exception, deeply influenced and consumed by addiction to *advertiser censored*.”

Bundy was well-known for giving conflicting information and often changed his facts about the same story several times. So it cannot be known for sure to what extent *advertiser censored* impacted his life. But it certainly impacted other lives – those of his victims and their families.

Today, there is even more evidence of a correlation between *advertiser censored* and more severe sexual crimes.

Sex Crimes Are Often Based In *advertiser censored*
Studies support that *advertiser censored* does play a major role in sex crimes.

• A Michigan State Police report showed that in 41 percent of sexual assault cases, *advertiser censored* was viewed just prior to or during the crime.
• A University of New Hampshire study showed that the highest rape rates are in states that have high sales of *advertiser censored* magazines.
• Research found that adult *advertiser censored* was connected with each of 1,400 sexual abuse cases in Lousiville, Kentucky. The majority of them were also connected with child *advertiser censored*.
• Other studies found that heavy use of the type of *advertiser censored* sold at adult bookstores matched an increased willingness to commit rape or other forced sexual acts.

The FBI said *advertiser censored* is found at 80 percent of the scenes of violent sex crimes, or in the homes of the offender. Police officers say that *advertiser censored* use is one of the most common profile traits of serial murderers and rapists.

Serial Killer Ted Bundy Describes Dangers Of *advertiser censored* The Night Before His Execution

—-

'”'There was nothing he would see visually that could give him that high, and he made the tragic jump, and he killed a person. For six months, he
(Bundy) couldn`t believe he had done that. That subsided, and the sexual frenzy occurred again, and he killed another woman. He did it so many times that it got so he could not feel (emotion).''”

BUNDY BLAMES *advertiser censored*

 

[tresir2012]

Serial Killer Ted Bundy Describes Dangers Of *advertiser censored* The Night Before His Execution

“*advertiser censored* Was A Factor
The night before his death, Bundy was interviewed by Dr. James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family. In one segment, Bundy told Dr. Dobson about the effect his *advertiser censored* addiction had on his life.

“Like most other kinds of addiction,“ he said, “I would keep looking for more potent, more explicit, more graphic kinds of material. Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder, harder, something which gives you a greater sense of excitement. Until you reach the point that *advertiser censored* only goes so far…”

Bundy added,

“I’ve lived in prison a long time now. I’ve met a lot of men who were motivated to commit violence just like me. And without exception, every one of them was deeply involved in *advertiser censored*. Without question, without exception, deeply influenced and consumed by addiction to *advertiser censored*.”

Bundy was well-known for giving conflicting information and often changed his facts about the same story several times. So it cannot be known for sure to what extent *advertiser censored* impacted his life. But it certainly impacted other lives – those of his victims and their families.

Today, there is even more evidence of a correlation between *advertiser censored* and more severe sexual crimes.

Sex Crimes Are Often Based In *advertiser censored*
Studies support that *advertiser censored* does play a major role in sex crimes.

• A Michigan State Police report showed that in 41 percent of sexual assault cases, *advertiser censored* was viewed just prior to or during the crime.
• A University of New Hampshire study showed that the highest rape rates are in states that have high sales of *advertiser censored* magazines.
• Research found that adult *advertiser censored* was connected with each of 1,400 sexual abuse cases in Lousiville, Kentucky. The majority of them were also connected with child *advertiser censored*.
• Other studies found that heavy use of the type of *advertiser censored* sold at adult bookstores matched an increased willingness to commit rape or other forced sexual acts.

The FBI said *advertiser censored* is found at 80 percent of the scenes of violent sex crimes, or in the homes of the offender. Police officers say that *advertiser censored* use is one of the most common profile traits of serial murderers and rapists.

Serial Killer Ted Bundy Describes Dangers Of *advertiser censored* The Night Before His Execution

—-

'”'There was nothing he would see visually that could give him that high, and he made the tragic jump, and he killed a person. For six months, he
(Bundy) couldn`t believe he had done that. That subsided, and the sexual frenzy occurred again, and he killed another woman. He did it so many times that it got so he could not feel (emotion).''”

BUNDY BLAMES *advertiser censored*

M25, that is incredible, yet is anything done about it? I bet the answer is no.