Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #122

[HOPE770145]

I considered pepper spray or a taser although pepper spray likely would have led to screaming. A taser may not have. I definitely think he had a means to subdue one of them in some manner in order to manage two of them who were both fit and athletic. IMO

Wouldn't they have screamed?

 

[Charlot123]

right, the dad DG, not MP ok, cant find a pic of DG

Libby took after her dad. Tall, wide-boned, wide-faces, blond-reddish hair. From the few photos it would appear that he is very tall, a big man, he would definitely have problem walking down that bridge. He looks nothing like BG, not even close, and - JMO - like all the parents of the Delphi victims, he is profoundly grieving.
Plus, no doubt, LE has checked alibis of both families.
I don’t know what “empath” is supposed to mean, but in my view, “empathy” means “compassion”. How can a compassionate person ask if they checked his DNA? Be sure, checked, and probably, again. Kelsi said that she had been checked three times.
He probably feels bad that he did not arrive sooner that day, and always will, why accuse him of something that is highly, highly unlikely?

 

[HOPE770145]

Libby took after her dad. Tall, wide-boned, wide-faces, blond-reddish hair. From the few photos it would appear that he is very tall, a big man, he would definitely have problem walking down that bridge. He looks nothing like BG, not even close, and - JMO - like all the parents of the Delphi victims, he is profoundly grieving.
Plus, no doubt, LE has checked alibis of both families.
I don’t know what “empath” is supposed to mean, but in my view, “empathy” means “compassion”. How can a compassionate person ask if they checked his DNA? Be sure, checked, and probably, again. Kelsi said that she had been checked three times.
He probably feels bad that he did not arrive sooner that day, and always will, why accuse him of something that is highly, highly unlikely?

I know, horrible. IMO will be someone never expected. When comes to crimes against children all hands off deck. I would hawl everyone in and double triple check alibis make sure no ones covering up. But I'm sure LE is on it. JMO

 

[CCJD]

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.
Rules - Etiquette & Information

 

[Andreee]

No. Her father, DG.

Yes, these facts are all early on established ones so newcomers here should read up on them first so we aren't covering things right from the start again lol.

 

[Jax49]

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.
Rules - Etiquette & Information

Thank you. From the first post: Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

 

[Andreee]

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.
Rules - Etiquette & Informatio

Thank you. From the first post: Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

 

[Andreee]

And I do think newcomers here should read all those rules and read the background on previous threads re. the basic facts of the case.

 

[JnRyan]

Couldn’t agree more on these points. Also:
*No limp: just navigating the rails.
*Had a weapon to assist in control.
*”Guys”= he’s not a southerner, most likely a Midwesterner, ie; why he’s in this area.
*Over 40
*Hes not only done this before but has claimed more than 1 victim at a time before as well.
*Imo it is the same perp as The Evansdale case. Possibly the attempted abduction cases around Evansdale prior to the girls abduction/murder there.
*Drives 2 vehicles. Possible one is for work.
MOO IMO MOO IMO

No limp because of the bridge ties. Agreed. In fact, I believe it would be difficult to recognize him by the way he walks because of that bridge.
Weapon. Yes, I believe it was a gun, but quite possibly he used another method to kill or both of the girls.
"Guys" I'm a southerner and my usual would be "Ya'll" or "Ladies" or "Folks". I've rarely used "Guys".
Over 40? I'm not so sure about this point. I tend to believe he is younger, 20's to maybe 30. That said, I was last carded when I was 40, so it is sometimes difficult to guess an age on appearance.
I think he has killed before or since. But he may have not done it in that area and his victim or victims were different enough that LE didn't make a connection. The very limited use of ViCAP means a similar crime may have not been entered in ViCAP. Even if he hasn't killed before, I believe he committed other sex crimes and not been arrested.
If there is a connection to Evansdale, I believe this is a copycat crime. The lack of forensic evidence due to how long it took find the Evansdale girls probably makes it difficult to confirm or rule out a connection for LE.
Two vehicles? Interesting. What if he currently lives out of the area was driving a rental that day? I did this in the past when I wanted to take a trip and my regular vehicle was much older and not as reliable as I would liked it to be.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Hey there newcomers - again, a very warm welcome to you! The suggestions just posted by Andreee and CCJD are great ones. We follow the WS TOS and that's what makes this site a cut above all the rest.

We all make mistakes from time to time, and our fellow posters will jump in to give us a gentle reminder before the Moderators do!

So happy you are here, and your fresh eyes on the case may just provide some new thinking or a new angle we have missed! (Just stick to the TOS). : ) Keep on posting; love your ideas!

Hugs and roses XXOO

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don’t know if there is a higher rate of killers among homeless. I think if we look at statistics, they are more apt to be victims of serial killers. Even as murderers, they’d be triggered by drugs, not by teenagers. I can’t imagine a homeless man carrying all “killer’s outfit” on him. Plus, the shoes. They are too clean, and appear thin-soled. Not quite what you expect from the homeless guys, their feet are in a bad shape.

Delphi murders require computer, and Tor browser, and specific interests, and imaginary word, and planning.

Charlot, you are the first, who also thinks, BG's shoes seem to be thin-soled. Calms me down.

 

[HOPE770145]

Hey there newcomers - again, a very warm welcome to you! The suggestions just posted by Andreee and CCJD are great ones. We follow the WS TOS and that's what makes this site a cut above all the rest.

We all make mistakes from time to time, and our fellow posters will jump in to give us a gentle reminder before the Moderators do!

So happy you are here, and your fresh eyes on the case may just provide some new thinking or a new angle we have missed! (Just stick to the TOS). : ) Keep on posting; love your ideas!

Hugs and roses XXOO

Amateur opinion and speculation

Just listening to down the hill pod cast very interesting. Let's hope this gets solved in the next month. I have faith!!!

 

[JnRyan]

On whether this killer has committed other murders or sex crimes I tend to believe he has. However, I even have some sticking points with my own theory. Indiana collects DNA swabs for felony arrests starting the year after this and no connections made since then. Prior or subsequent sexual crimes such as rape or even groping a victim is possible. Yet no such victim appears to have made a connection with their assailant and the video or sketches.

Of course, someone may have called in a tip. In the beginning this task force had between 50 and 100 LE. Other jurisdictions were sending investigators to assist and it was stated that because the jurisdictions they came from had few murders some of these LE had not investigated a murder before. I read where the FBI provided the task force with database program for handling tips. How the task force handle the documentation of the follow-up on tips? Did each detective enter their own conclusions/findings into the program? If so, we could have some variations in the input. I also wonder what the communication between the investigators was like in the beginning with this 'temp' help. As an auditor I always tried to keep an open mind when conducting interviews and yet I know a preconceived thought can lead us astray if we don't watch it. IOW, an investigator who believes this killer lived locally may his own ideas about driving 1 1/2 to 2+ hours to talk to someone and would this have an impact on his conclusion. Especially, if the killer lived 100 or more miles away. I just find it difficult to believe we have almost 50K in tips and this killer has not been interviewed by LE.

 

[HOPE770145]

On whether this killer has committed other murders or sex crimes I tend to believe he has. However, I even have some sticking points with my own theory. Indiana collects DNA swabs for felony arrests starting the year after this and no connections made since then. Prior or subsequent sexual crimes such as rape or even groping a victim is possible. Yet no such victim appears to have made a connection with their assailant and the video or sketches.

Of course, someone may have called in a tip. In the beginning this task force had between 50 and 100 LE. Other jurisdictions were sending investigators to assist and it was stated that because the jurisdictions they came from had few murders some of these LE had not investigated a murder before. I read where the FBI provided the task force with database program for handling tips. How the task force handle the documentation of the follow-up on tips? Did each detective enter their own conclusions/findings into the program? If so, we could have some variations in the input. I also wonder what the communication between the investigators was like in the beginning with this 'temp' help. As an auditor I always tried to keep an open mind when conducting interviews and yet I know a preconceived thought can lead us astray if we don't watch it. IOW, an investigator who believes this killer lived locally may his own ideas about driving 1 1/2 to 2+ hours to talk to someone and would this have an impact on his conclusion. Especially, if the killer lived 100 or more miles away. I just find it difficult to believe we have almost 50K in tips and this killer has not been interviewed by LE.

How these girls were killed, the crime scene should have enough evidence to go after the POI. IMO. FBI were involved so I am sure they have a forensic profiler who knows who is who and what is what. If the crime was stabbing and strangulation it could very well be very personal. Let us say one was attacked more so than the other for example, and when you add up everything it should point or lean on one side or another. MOO That video provides some evidence but not enough for me to see who or what that is or was. As far as I can tell they had no limp but were navigating that bridge and trying not to fall or allow all the "stuff" they had hidden on them to fall out and have those girls take off and run too far ahead? IMO I think this crime was personal. It is rare that it is someone the 2 girls would not know. I believe based on what the LE has said that they have a good idea who this person is and is within the community. IMO. It is possible they had planned this and had some things hidden along the trail to aid them with the crime. However, seeing as it is that the girls were not supposed to be there that it was just an idea spurr of the momment then how did this man know they were going to be there? Just strange IMO

 

[SAMS]

No limp because of the bridge ties. Agreed. In fact, I believe it would be difficult to recognize him by the way he walks because of that bridge.
Weapon. Yes, I believe it was a gun, but quite possibly he used another method to kill or both of the girls.
"Guys" I'm a southerner and my usual would be "Ya'll" or "Ladies" or "Folks". I've rarely used "Guys".
Over 40? I'm not so sure about this point. I tend to believe he is younger, 20's to maybe 30. That said, I was last carded when I was 40, so it is sometimes difficult to guess an age on appearance.
I think he has killed before or since. But he may have not done it in that area and his victim or victims were different enough that LE didn't make a connection. The very limited use of ViCAP means a similar crime may have not been entered in ViCAP. Even if he hasn't killed before, I believe he committed other sex crimes and not been arrested.
If there is a connection to Evansdale, I believe this is a copycat crime. The lack of forensic evidence due to how long it took find the Evansdale girls probably makes it difficult to confirm or rule out a connection for LE.
Two vehicles? Interesting. What if he currently lives out of the area was driving a rental that day? I did this in the past when I wanted to take a trip and my regular vehicle was much older and not as reliable as I would liked it to be.

Possible. If he’s seasoned not sure he’d want to leave a trail though. I believe he has a work van or vehicle and another personal vehicle. It’s very possible he is self employed. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Hey there newcomers - again, a very warm welcome to you! The suggestions just posted by Andreee and CCJD are great ones. We follow the WS TOS and that's what makes this site a cut above all the rest.

We all make mistakes from time to time, and our fellow posters will jump in to give us a gentle reminder before the Moderators do!

So happy you are here, and your fresh eyes on the case may just provide some new thinking or a new angle we have missed! (Just stick to the TOS). : ) Keep on posting; love your ideas!

Hugs and roses XXOO

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[HOPE770145]

Possible. If he’s seasoned not sure he’d want to leave a trail though. I believe he has work van or vehicle and another personal vehicle. It’s very possible he is self employed. MOO

I noticed him wearing a fanny pack. It was it just my eyes? By the video his wife should know and is keeping tight lipped. Or maybe he's single. JMO

 

[Minnesotaloon]

I don’t know if this is just something that got miscommunicated in the thread or if it can from a new source or LE but I have read in a couple of post that the person who hurt these girls had weapons stashed somewhere. Did this come from an opinion that I misinterpreted as fact or did this come from an article? If it can from an article can someone post it I am curious. MOO if he had weapons stashed how did he know he was going to come across a young girl or two? Does that mean he knew they’d be out there. Also in my town a principal and my old teacher was arrested because he had made a fake Snapchat posing as a middle schooler from a town over. My sister hadn’t thought twice to add him back when he added her because so many other or her friends had the principal (who was posing as a 6 th grader) added on their Snapchat. MOO the girls had posted a Snapchat photo of one of them on the bridge. Is it possible that an adult in their community had done the same thing as my middle school principal and that’s how he knew the two girls were on the bridge. He walked past other people from my understanding from the articles I had been reading and that is how they had gotten a sketch made. So I always go back to wondering if it wasn’t targeted why did he walk past other people if his goal was just to kill that day. How did he know that he’d find those two girls on the bridge. It could have been by chance but I just wonder why would he walk past other people if it was just a crime of opportunity.
* all speculation and opinions from what I’ve watched in LE press briefings, read from articles posted on the thread, and have read from other posts on the thread*

 

[Minnesotaloon]

The other thing that has bothered me in this case is the fact that they had taken a video of the suspect on there phone. I don’t remember which girl it was but why did they feel threatened enough to start taking video. Did they feel they were being followed? Did they see a weapon? Did they recognize the person and know he was bad news? Does LE know why they started video taping him? Is there any clues on the phone like a Snapchat or a text to someone saying something about them being followed or that the person had a weapon? Also can someone explain to me why the two sketches look so different. I have seen post on Reddit about a couple theories and something about there being two men involved in the case and that’s why there different because they are different people, but I still haven’t found a source saying so. Has anyone heard an explanation from LE?

 

[Ozoner]

How these girls were killed, the crime scene should have enough evidence to go after the POI. IMO. FBI were involved so I am sure they have a forensic profiler who knows who is who and what is what. If the crime was stabbing and strangulation it could very well be very personal. Let us say one was attacked more so than the other for example, and when you add up everything it should point or lean on one side or another. MOO That video provides some evidence but not enough for me to see who or what that is or was. As far as I can tell they had no limp but were navigating that bridge and trying not to fall or allow all the "stuff" they had hidden on them to fall out and have those girls take off and run too far ahead? IMO I think this crime was personal. It is rare that it is someone the 2 girls would not know. I believe based on what the LE has said that they have a good idea who this person is and is within the community. IMO. It is possible they had planned this and had some things hidden along the trail to aid them with the crime. However, seeing as it is that the girls were not supposed to be there that it was just an idea spurr of the momment then how did this man know they were going to be there? Just strange IMO

That's just it: he didn't know that they were going to be there. He stalked the location, not the girls; he waited for a suitable victim to pass by the way a spider waits for a fly to get caught in its web.