Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[rosesfromangels]

...is not between the perp and the girls, but, say, one of his kids and one of the girls (any kind of connection, friendship, animosity, romantic ...).

Respectfully snipped.
Woah....I hadn't considered this. Really insightful and interesting speculation.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I’ve followed the case since the beginning as well but until something breaks, there’s not much to add.

Although it might seem like yesterday, hard to believe that last PC was almost a year and a half ago with no major developments or information released since then. Whether it be the photo, video or either of the sketches, 3 1/2 years on, the less likely the killer will be recognized by someone who knows who he is. I think we all tend to remember people by how they look today, not what they looked like in the past if their appearance has gradually or suddenly changed.

Sadly, Libby’s video and both the sketches are becoming redundant by the passage of time.

People have lost confidence in the sketches. Release some different information. Real information, not sketches with no context. There’s really not much left to be said without anything new. The public is LE’s greatest ally and asset. Opportunities have been squandered.

 

[1southernmama]

Re: a comment about sketches losing value over time - while this might be true, the way a person walks rarely changes (unless there’s been an injury or stroke, etc.). The video is still very useful if the right person has seen it. IMO LE should be playing this weekly at different times of day. Someone knows who it is, and these girls deserve justice.

 

[SMK777]

Re: a comment about sketches losing value over time - while this might be true, the way a person walks rarely changes (unless there’s been an injury or stroke, etc.). The video is still very useful if the right person has seen it. IMO LE should be playing this weekly at different times of day. Someone knows who it is, and these girls deserve justice.

What always bothered me is that it was stressed many times that his manner of walking had to do with the bridge being old, in disrepair, sagging, with big open spaces between the slats, etc.

 

[Charlot123]

Three and a half years later and we are coming to the end of Thread #125. And there was a period back there where a thread was shut down for a while. You can probably pick a dozen cases, including the Suzanne Morphew missing person case, and not have a total of 125 threads. I'm thinking when this killer is finally arrested this case will blow up Websleuths.

I hope the LE has the guts, or the presence of mind, to arrest him. I remember how we were starting the threat nr 100 and posting, “hopefully, today, when this thread is still open, the BG will be arrested”.

I believe the whole case - the reason for the killings, the connection between the girls and the BG, the MO and the real timeline, as well as the connection with other murders (another case) - will blow up Websleuth.

RIP, Libby and Abby

 

[stattlich1]

I believe the whole case - the reason for the killings, the connection between the girls and the BG, the MO and the real timeline, as well as the connection with other murders (another case) - will blow up Websleuth.

Agreed.

 

[housewife]

Has anyone heard the FBI agent Mary Ellen O'toole's profile from the podcast "Down the Hill" Chapter 9?
She described the crime as sadistic (I think she had access to crime scene photos taken by first responders). She made it seem as though sadism was most likely tied to psycopathy. He was an opportunistic psycopath.
Psycopaths are incredibly confident. She pointed out that he was really ballsy in choosing an outdoor area to commit the crimes. Anyone could have accidentally seen him. And his voice on the recording doesn't sound stressed or excited at all.
This whole time I've pictured a pathetic guy living in his mom's basement in little Delphi, with no social life. I was totally wrong. This guy is confident and probably successful in his job, and likely has a family. I bet he goes to church (whatever happened to The Shack reference)? Does he work at a church?

Speaking of psychopaths... I think Jim Clemente said that psycopaths can be very competitive, and this can be expressed through sports. Are there any competitive sports for adults in Delphi like tennis or bowling? Or maybe collecting classic cars/watches/trucks? I'm picturing Bobby Axlerod from Billions. Just a thought.

I also read this today:

"Likewise, rapists are more likely to reoffend violently rather than sexually. A meta-analysis conducted by Hanson and Bussiere (1998) found that of 1,839 rapists, 19 percent (n = 349) sexually recidivated and 22 percent (n = 405) violently recidivated over an average follow-up of five years."
​

If we had unlimited resources and money, I'd love to test the DNA of Delphi's violent offenders for the forseeable future until we get a match.

 

[SMK777]

Has anyone heard the FBI agent Mary Ellen O'toole's profile from the podcast "Down the Hill" Chapter 9?
She described the crime as sadistic (I think she had access to crime scene photos taken by first responders). She made it seem as though sadism was most likely tied to psycopathy. He was an opportunistic psycopath.
Psycopaths are incredibly confident. She pointed out that he was really ballsy in choosing an outdoor area to commit the crimes. Anyone could have accidentally seen him. And his voice on the recording doesn't sound stressed or excited at all.
This whole time I've pictured a pathetic guy living in his mom's basement in little Delphi, with no social life. I was totally wrong. This guy is confident and probably successful in his job, and likely has a family. I bet he goes to church (whatever happened to The Shack reference)? Does he work at a church?

Speaking of psychopaths... I think Jim Clemente said that psycopaths can be very competitive, and this can be expressed through sports. Are there any competitive sports for adults in Delphi like tennis or bowling? Or maybe collecting classic cars/watches/trucks? I'm picturing Bobby Axlerod from Billions. Just a thought.

I also read this today:

"Likewise, rapists are more likely to reoffend violently rather than sexually. A meta-analysis conducted by Hanson and Bussiere (1998) found that of 1,839 rapists, 19 percent (n = 349) sexually recidivated and 22 percent (n = 405) violently recidivated over an average follow-up of five years."
​

If we had unlimited resources and money, I'd love to test the DNA of Delphi's violent offenders for the forseeable future until we get a match.

Right, the BTK killer was a psychopathic sadist, and he was active in his church, owned a home, had a wife and children, had gone to college. He was not some weird guy living in with Mom.

 

[sunshineray]

Is this the person who subsequently moved house?

I don't rightly know.

 

[somequestions]

I came across a news clip that was shared on Twitter by ABC-7 Reporter Alexis McAdams on July 19, 2017.

At the 1:16 mark, AA says the grainy images were taken from a video that Libby took over her shoulder with the front facing camera on her phone with her back to the suspect as he approached them on the bridge.

Twitter

This the first time I've heard that it was taken with the front camera, although this would certainly explain why the images aren't the best quality.

I did not know this information. So Liberty German was trying to be covert when she took the video. The real question is what made her so aware that this person on the bridge could present a problem? We can only guess.

 

[Marzipan]

Has anyone heard the FBI agent Mary Ellen O'toole's profile from the podcast "Down the Hill" Chapter 9?
She described the crime as sadistic (I think she had access to crime scene photos taken by first responders). She made it seem as though sadism was most likely tied to psycopathy. He was an opportunistic psycopath.
Psycopaths are incredibly confident. She pointed out that he was really ballsy in choosing an outdoor area to commit the crimes. Anyone could have accidentally seen him. And his voice on the recording doesn't sound stressed or excited at all.
This whole time I've pictured a pathetic guy living in his mom's basement in little Delphi, with no social life. I was totally wrong. This guy is confident and probably successful in his job, and likely has a family. I bet he goes to church (whatever happened to The Shack reference)? Does he work at a church?

Speaking of psychopaths... I think Jim Clemente said that psycopaths can be very competitive, and this can be expressed through sports. Are there any competitive sports for adults in Delphi like tennis or bowling? Or maybe collecting classic cars/watches/trucks? I'm picturing Bobby Axlerod from Billions. Just a thought.

I also read this today:

"Likewise, rapists are more likely to reoffend violently rather than sexually. A meta-analysis conducted by Hanson and Bussiere (1998) found that of 1,839 rapists, 19 percent (n = 349) sexually recidivated and 22 percent (n = 405) violently recidivated over an average follow-up of five years."
​

If we had unlimited resources and money, I'd love to test the DNA of Delphi's violent offenders for the forseeable future until we get a match.

Great insights here. I'm not knowledgeable about types of killers (although I'm learning through Websleuths and the delightfully reassuring TV show Criminal Minds, in which every case is solved in 45 minutes, how nice! -- never watched much TV until quarantine times). But I too have thought about church. I've thought about competitiveness (or a killing team where they play off one another and one is dominant and the other wants to prove himself). I haven't thought so much about confidence. BG is indeed calm and confident on the audio. It could be though that the only time he is confident is when he is about to violently assert power, or he could appear outwardly confident on a regular basis whether he is or is not confident on the inside. Medication can help with this for some.
Yes, I think most of us who have been following for at least awhile have heard O'Toole's interview, but it's always good to listen again, or thanks to @cujenn81 we can read a transcript.

 

[somequestions]

I’ve followed the case since the beginning as well but until something breaks, there’s not much to add.

Although it might seem like yesterday, hard to believe that last PC was almost a year and a half ago with no major developments or information released since then. Whether it be the photo, video or either of the sketches, 3 1/2 years on, the less likely the killer will be recognized by someone who knows who he is. I think we all tend to remember people by how they look today, not what they looked like in the past if their appearance has gradually or suddenly changed.

Sadly, Libby’s video and both the sketches are becoming redundant by the passage of time.

This is why time matters in any case. Witnesses get old and die. People forget. People move. People change their appearance over time. And in forums like this, cases eventually get talked about enough with the same information being discussed over and over that without any new information there becomes nothing left to talk about.

A case could literally be 15 or 20 years old and LE does not have to release any new information. All they have to say is that it is an "active investigation" and therefore the information is protected to help preserve the integrity of the case evidence for an eventual trial.

The posters fade, and the only people that watch the video are probably some true crime enthusiasts who still remember that case from years ago about two girls named Abigail Williams and Liberty German who were murdered while out on the Monon High Bridge trail in Delphi, Indiana.

 

[Falling Down]

Has anyone heard the FBI agent Mary Ellen O'toole's profile from the podcast "Down the Hill" Chapter 9?
She described the crime as sadistic (I think she had access to crime scene photos taken by first responders). She made it seem as though sadism was most likely tied to psycopathy. He was an opportunistic psycopath.
Psycopaths are incredibly confident. She pointed out that he was really ballsy in choosing an outdoor area to commit the crimes. Anyone could have accidentally seen him. And his voice on the recording doesn't sound stressed or excited at all.
This whole time I've pictured a pathetic guy living in his mom's basement in little Delphi, with no social life. I was totally wrong. This guy is confident and probably successful in his job, and likely has a family. I bet he goes to church (whatever happened to The Shack reference)? Does he work at a church?

Speaking of psychopaths... I think Jim Clemente said that psycopaths can be very competitive, and this can be expressed through sports. Are there any competitive sports for adults in Delphi like tennis or bowling? Or maybe collecting classic cars/watches/trucks? I'm picturing Bobby Axlerod from Billions. Just a thought.

I also read this today:

"Likewise, rapists are more likely to reoffend violently rather than sexually. A meta-analysis conducted by Hanson and Bussiere (1998) found that of 1,839 rapists, 19 percent (n = 349) sexually recidivated and 22 percent (n = 405) violently recidivated over an average follow-up of five years."
​

If we had unlimited resources and money, I'd love to test the DNA of Delphi's violent offenders for the forseeable future until we get a match.

Good post.

I also picture someone who is confident. I'm of the opinion he planned this fantasy of his well beforehand.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I did not know this information. So Liberty German was trying to be covert when she took the video. The real question is what made her so aware that this person on the bridge could present a problem? We can only guess.

I believe they saw him before they got the bridge during their walk. Probably on the main trail, shortly after being dropped off.

I'd be spooked, too, not only by someone coming from the opposite end of the bridge, which is 850 long, especially if I'd already seen them.

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I did not know this information. So Liberty German was trying to be covert when she took the video. The real question is what made her so aware that this person on the bridge could present a problem? We can only guess.

If he were approaching rapidly that would be enough
Likely her God given instinct kicked in, and it was right. : (

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[BNA]

While LE has no obligation to convince the public that they are working to solve this case, I sure wish they would.

 

[mimimarge]

Thinking through who would know he was absent and would continue to be absent from the propery. The ones that come to mind are (1) people in the legal system, look at court dockets, or were at the courthouse. (2) Direct contacts of RL who he told he'd be out that day, or a friend of Rons contacts. (3)People at RL's bar?

A thought just popped in my head. If not for the video, would we be able to so precisely pinpoint the timing of the murders? And if not, RLs alibi might not work, and he could be strongly suspected of the crime.

Suppose for a second someone at RLs bar (a regular) had a plan to murder on the bridge. In walks RL, and he begins drinking. Regular immediately heads out towards the trailhead. Plans to commit the murder on RLs property, hiding the girls. RL comes home. Next day they find the girls on RLs property and he says he was drinking then drove home. To some thatd sound unbelievable cause he just came from court. In this scenario, LE doesn't know exactly when the girls wenr missing, so RL becomes subject of immense scrutiny. His alibi, in this alternative world of no video, can't cover all the possible times the girls may have gone missing.

That is to say, had things gone slightly differently, RL may have been framed.

Obviously, this is just speculation about a single scenario.

I hadn't thought about the fact that the video narrowed down the time of the murders/abduction to provide an alibi. But that will serve in determining who could have done it as well. And yes I think that without the video RL would have been more suspect.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

While LE has no obligation to convince the public that they are working to solve this case, I sure wish they would.

We have to deliver the missing puzzle piece, I think.

 

[mimimarge]

All good points. I still can't seem to let go of this niggling question of whether this Perp was connected to one of the adjacent properties in some manner. Then of course we have the cemetery close by, which can attract some strange visitors/lurkers., in addition to legitimate guests paying their respects.

I'm just circling around in my mind about what significance the location had, if any. I know many of you believe this is all random and a crime of opportunity. Statistics would tend to agree with you.

Aside from the proximity to the cemetery, do we know if that particular location is an "anchor" for anything or is known for a specific purpose? Is it known to be a good location to spot deer, see a particular type of wildlife or nesting bird, or tree fog, or? What is unique about this spot? Is it a surveyors landmark, or?

This could very well just end up being a hidden spot that served the Perp's murderous intent, but I'm still trying to find a thread we can pull.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I have seen videos of train enthusiasts that will follow on foot where the train tracks used to be, look at the old bridges, trestles. There was one I saw where the person started in the town of delphi and went over the freedom bridge down the trail and then over the monon high bridge.

 

[mimimarge]

I’m hoping this is the case, because then at least there’s the hope that the person will finally have the courage to come forward.

What worries me is that this may not be the case.

For instance, in the case of the BTK killer, for years and years no one knew or suspected a thing: Neither his wife, nor son or daughter; nor neighbors nor coworkers nor friends. Not a single soul ever suspected that he was stalking and brutally murdering people.

It could be the same with BG.

I believe that BG is out of the house A LOT "hiking". Something that might plant a seed in someone's mind.