Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[Falling Down]

Snipped.

The cops had myopia when it came to this issue. Maybe 30 years ago nobody but locals knew about the trail, but that was no longer the case in 2017.

This interview with Ives (which was posted in the last thread) makes it clear that there was no evidence pointing to a local other than the assumption that only a local would be familiar with the area around the Monon High Bridge.

I think we can safely throw out that assumption at this point. BG might be local, but he could easily be a traveling serial killer a la Israel Keyes.


Yes, they were thinking "accident along an expected route", not "abduction and murder."

IK is one killer with some similarities to this killer. I often wonder if BG emulated Keyes to some degree with this horror along Deer Creek. One big difference is BG must have wanted for the bodies to be found within hours, unlike Keyes who wanted his earlier abductions and murders to fly more under the radar, so to speak. He went after only one juvenile I'm aware of, and let her go. Later on when he started killing, he went after strictly adults.

Both killers were willing to go to greater lengths than most organized killers. I believe BG did what he did, to two juveniles, thinking they wouldn't be found for a while, for maximum shock effect.

JMO

 

[squabble]

Since BG is most likely a psychopath (psychopaths are charming liars), he probably told the girls that if they went to another location with him, he would not hurt them. People often will do what the perpetrator asks of them to stay alive. This tactic will work in some cases and will fail in others. It all depends on the person they are dealing with. It saddens me to think about how these two beautiful girls that had such bright futures were taken by a man that only cared about his own selfish pleasures.

BG possibly could have threatened that if one ran, he would kill the other and the girls stayed together out of loyalty to each other. If so, how sad.

 

[Spartygirl]

If they knew who it was they would have mentioned his name in the recording.

Agree.. but we dont know if they did or not as LE has not released any of that info.

 

[Spartygirl]

This Gray Hughes (it's been condensed according to him at the start) shows at the beginning an overview of whole area. At around 15:00 mark he starts talking about the killer's exit from the crime scene and a witness to it. On that road is the area Kelsei dropped the girls off and if you continued the parking area right by the Hoosier Highway where "the" vehicle police asked about was parked.

Interesting thing, where the witness supposedly saw someone walking by the cemetery is not far at all from the drop off point. Kelsei mentioned more recently that she noticed a decaled SUV vehicle parked there when the girls got out.

And the cemetery is right next to RL land where girls were found.
A vehicle can park down in the corner of the cemetery, near the woods that butts up to RL property and not be seen from the road.
I just feel that parking at the old CPS building, puts BG out there for anyone and everyone to see him.
Maybe he did risk that and has been lucky.
I just know walking back to where the old CPS building is, we were out in the open. Huge risk IMO
Cemetery, would be more likely to be able to hide, IMO

 

[Spartygirl]

DC says the perp is a combination of the two pics. How is that possible? How could one person on the same day have seen a young guy with curly hair no hat and no goatee and the video shows a an old guy with a hat and a goatee?! If someone really did report seeing that young guy wouldn’t their testimony be called into question since he LOOKS NOTHING LIKE BG? How could you miss seeing a mustache and goatee? Did he grow one suddenly? Maybe it was from an eyewitness who saw him on a different day. That would make sense.

Also, I listened to the PC from 2017 last night for the first time and it sure sounds like they suspect more than one person. I think that PC tells us WAY more than later ones.

Perhaps because BOTH guys, with different descriptions were seen that day and both witnesses think it could be BG, but actually only one is.
Or as BP mentioned in the latest HLN show, and how they showed the similarity and combined both photos, is how it happened.
We just do not know. UGH

 

[Spartygirl]

In the case of Tampa serial killer Howell Donaldson III, 24: He was a young, good looking, polite, well-dressed, but quiet, recent college graduate who was a walk-on for his college basketball team in NY, but never played 1 game. When he graduated he worked at McDonalds. His victims were random, unrelated and unknown to him. 3 men, one woman. All shot while standing or walking alone on the street. Cops aren’t sure of his motive. Read the above. His motive’s right there.

He did not achieve what he set out to. Was disappointed with his life. No doubt struggling financially. F* the world mentality. But nobody is his orbit saw it, or even believed it once they knew.

He chose a neighbor he “didn’t have a link to,” but LE found one anyway on his cell phone. He had plans to leave the state before cops nabbed him.

I think BGs motive is similar. Angry at the world. Disappointed with his life. Seeking power thru killing innocent, unsuspecting people.

I think Abby and Libby were targeted.
No random killing as mentioned above with HD III
JMO

 

[Angels27]

Well, if LE checks all of the places that post this stuff (what headache!), and someone said something that implied more knowledge, not playing a guessing game, I hope they’d first check the author. And I think, they would. But I don’t think BG is a regular here. In my imagination, he manages to stay hidden because he does not take the unnecessary risks. Or, he made such a perfect alibi...

For myself, I don’t understand even the purpose of killing. So closely to their house? This is why I am not sure it is all sexual. And if not, there should have been a a “good enough” reason to take this risk, and this is what I am trying to figure out.

Possible Motives -

1. Need for power / attention - none in real life

2. Sense of hopelessness / hates his life

3. A slight - by victim, victim’s relative, the cops, anyone.

4. Revenge - on victim, someone from his past, or world

5. Sex - direct or indirect (no rape)

6. Bored, loner, game player, trying to outsmart

7. Rejection - by victim, victim’s relative or any female

 

[Angels27]

This Gray Hughes (it's been condensed according to him at the start) shows at the beginning an overview of whole area. At around 15:00 mark he starts talking about the killer's exit from the crime scene and a witness to it. On that road is the area Kelsei dropped the girls off and if you continued the parking area right by the Hoosier Highway where "the" vehicle police asked about was parked.

Interesting thing, where the witness supposedly saw someone walking by the cemetery is not far at all from the drop off point. Kelsei mentioned more recently that she noticed a decaled SUV vehicle parked there when the girls got out.

In the IOWA case several witnesses reported a white SUV near where girls were abducted.

I wonder if this guy was leading A&L to his car and they tried to make a run for it and he killed them before he could get them to his car. I think the girls were smart enough to try to cut and run.

 

[Angels27]

Articles from the Carroll County Comet become available after two week without subscription.
This one is from February 10:
Readers invited to submit questions about double homicide | Carroll County Comet

I wonder if they set this up to caught the guy. Make him sign up or get his IP.

 

[Spartygirl]

He didn't walk them 3/4 of a mile, that's a false distance blurb mentioned a lot since the murders.

He marched them roughly 500 feet to the CS.

From the NW end of the bridge to the CS is under 3/8 of a mile.

It was South end of bridge and they were about-450-500 ft to CS and about 90 yards.

 

[Angels27]

Quoted bbm
As a reminder....

Delphi has their annual 'Day after Christmas Walk' that has been going on for years.

There are dozens upon dozens of people that walk over to High Bridge every year at this event.

This article is from Dec 2007 but there are subequent articles that describe this annual event.

Hikers experience beauty of Delphi Historic Trail

"The trail follows a rail trail to old Camden Road and over to the Monon High Bridge, a decommissioned railroad bridge currently owned by CSX. The bridge, which is now just loosely fitted railroad ties, is the second-highest in Indiana at 63 feet high and is also 853 feet long.

Few had the courage to venture out onto the bridge, but those that did could gaze out into the valley at the swift-rushing Deer Creek below."

A person need only to attend this event one time to gain familiarity with the trail system and bridge area.

It could be very easy for a person to separate themselves from the group on this hike and check out the area, then rejoin again with nobody the wiser.

I wonder who was well known for being one of the brave ones to venture out on that bridge each time?

JMO

Exactly. Imagine if all of the Christmas festival goers went out onto the bridge at once. COLLAPSE.

 

[news buff]

If they knew who it was they would have mentioned his name in the recording.

Maybe they did. Have you heard it?

 

[Spartygirl]

Family have mentioned most of the gorge search was around the bridge and downstream of it. Other folks were searching in town, across the countryside, etc.

People make it sound like there were hundreds of people tromping around the bridge area, which doesn't appear to line up with reality.

JMO

IIRC, BP did say there were 100's of searchers there that night before girls were found.

 

[Angels27]

In the case of Tampa serial killer Howell Donaldson III, 24: He was a young, good looking, polite, well-dressed, but quiet, recent college graduate who was a walk-on for his college basketball team in NY, but never played 1 game. When he graduated he worked at McDonalds. His victims were random, unrelated and unknown to him. 3 men, one woman. All shot while standing or walking alone on the street. Cops aren’t sure of his motive. Read the above. His motive’s right there.

He did not achieve what he set out to. Was disappointed with his life. No doubt struggling financially. F* the world mentality. But nobody is his orbit saw it, or even believed it once they knew.

He chose a neighbor he “didn’t have a link to,” but LE found one anyway on his cell phone. He had plans to leave the state before cops nabbed him.

I think BGs motive is similar. Angry at the world. Disappointed with his life. Seeking power thru killing innocent, unsuspecting people.

He chose a Neighborhood* rather. Not neighbor.

 

[Angels27]

He didn't walk them 3/4 of a mile, that's a false distance blurb mentioned a lot since the murders.

He marched them roughly 500 feet to the CS.

From the NW end of the bridge to the CS is under 3/8 of a mile.

Thanks. What’s the CS?

 

[Angels27]

One sentence I keep seeing in old interviews by LE that I find very interesting is something like ‘We have a LOT of evidence from the crime scene and it’s not what anyone would think.’ That’s cryptic. I wonder what that means. I also read crime scene were out there for 4 DAYS. I guess maybe because there was so much ground to cover. Still, I wonder what he means by that. Any guesses?

 

[Angels27]

If there really were 50 people a day who visited that park and it was a nice day with no school why would this guy risk killing 2 people in broad daylight? Wouldn’t he worry someone would see him? That’s very risky. It really makes me wonder if he knew they were going to be there at that time and maybe scouted the area beforehand to see who else was around. He would have had to attempt to control as many of the variables of the situation as possible in order not to get caught. And four years later he still hasn’t.

 

[Spartygirl]

Thanks. What’s the CS?

Crime Scene
And it was the South end, not the North

 

[Diddian]

Possible Motives -

1. Need for power / attention - none in real life

2. Sense of hopelessness / hates his life

3. A slight - by victim, victim’s relative, the cops, anyone.

4. Revenge - on victim, someone from his past, or world

5. Sex - direct or indirect (no rape)

6. Bored, loner, game player, trying to outsmart

7. Rejection - by victim, victim’s relative or any female

I'd also add to the list of possible motives:
8. Protect criminal manufacture or distribution operation from discovery - drugs, sex, guns, etc.

(not saying I "prefer" that possibility for consideration... just cannot eliminate it.)

 

[Angels27]

A new path

Here Sister Kelsi says she saw a dark SUV that day.