Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #130

[mom2chloe]

anyway back to the single perp theory and his subsequent escape...seems like they think he escaped through the woods...if so where would he end up? he cant just go endlessly through the woods, he has to come out somewhere..how far could he go? what are some possible escape routes? are there any residential pockets you can access from through the woods?

I cant see him getting out of there on foot.

Wasn’t it implied or suggested that LE had a search warrant for another property? I’m not referring to RL’s property but another one near there? I’ve also wondered if someone had it in for RL hence leaving bodies on his property. Another neighbor possibly? IMO

 

[janewall]

Yes! I feel as though there’s a few errors too, or maybe its the author just sort of “misspeaking”, and possibly taking license in writing her article...But one of the quotes that made me catch my breath today was this one...

“Just four words, “Guys…….Down the hill”! And then with the video still going, Libby recorded her own murder, and the murder of her friend Abby.”
A Sister’s Walk for Justice: The Delphi Murders [EXCLUSIVE]

I have always been under the impression that the murders were not on audio. I haven’t yet had the chance to search any supporting statements/articles, but I thought I have read several interviews with TL, DC, and/or KR in the last couple years where they had definitively said there wasn’t much else of value recorded on the audio.

To think that the actual horrific trauma of what those girls went through is horrifying and heartwrenching, i can’t imagine how horrible that would be for them to listen to on audio. I was always under the impression that none of it was on there, or at the very leaset, they havent confirmed it. Am I just remembering wrong? Did we know that the murders were captured on audio?

I haven't followed this case as faithfully as some of the other posters, but I don't recall reading or hearing anything to that effect before – certainly not from any of the LE representatives, and who else would know? That phrasing definitely made me raise my eyebrows, and I read the rest of the article with a strong sense that the writer was embroidering for dramatic impact.

 

[photographer4]

Just still learning about this horrific case and wondering - how did Libby conceal that she had the pictures / video of the killer on her phone and keep the device hidden? I had imagined if he knew about it, or thought he was on it, he'd have taken it with him, but clearly, he didn't, because as far as we know, the LE have the actual device (right?). Or... did LE get the photos / video off a cloud service?

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes! I feel as though there’s a few errors too, or maybe its the author just sort of “misspeaking”, and possibly taking license in writing her article...But one of the quotes that made me catch my breath today was this one...

“Just four words, “Guys…….Down the hill”! And then with the video still going, Libby recorded her own murder, and the murder of her friend Abby.”
A Sister’s Walk for Justice: The Delphi Murders [EXCLUSIVE]

I have always been under the impression that the murders were not on audio. I haven’t yet had the chance to search any supporting statements/articles, but I thought I have read several interviews with TL, DC, and/or KR in the last couple years where they had definitively said there wasn’t much else of value recorded on the audio.

To think that the actual horrific trauma of what those girls went through is horrifying and heartwrenching, i can’t imagine how horrible that would be for them to listen to on audio. I was always under the impression that none of it was on there, or at the very leaset, they havent confirmed it. Am I just remembering wrong? Did we know that the murders were captured on audio?

I think you’re right. I recall an interview when that question was asked of LE - were the murders recorded - and the response was no but I can’t remember who or when although it’s been mentioned on these threads a few times. It was because of that negative response that several theories arose regarding various locations where Libby might’ve dropped or thrown her cellphone.

There are several noticeable inconsistencies within that report so it’s difficult to separate fact from fiction. Considering Kelsi apparently accompanied the writer it’s too bad she didn’t ask her to also lend a hand by proof-reading, as it’s my guess the writer was only vaguely aware of the case until recently. JMO

 

[mom2chloe]

Yes! I feel as though there’s a few errors too, or maybe its the author just sort of “misspeaking”, and possibly taking license in writing her article...But one of the quotes that made me catch my breath today was this one...

“Just four words, “Guys…….Down the hill”! And then with the video still going, Libby recorded her own murder, and the murder of her friend Abby.”
A Sister’s Walk for Justice: The Delphi Murders [EXCLUSIVE]

I have always been under the impression that the murders were not on audio. I haven’t yet had the chance to search any supporting statements/articles, but I thought I have read several interviews with TL, DC, and/or KR in the last couple years where they had definitively said there wasn’t much else of value recorded on the audio.

To think that the actual horrific trauma of what those girls went through is horrifying and heartwrenching, i can’t imagine how horrible that would be for them to listen to on audio. I was always under the impression that none of it was on there, or at the very leaset, they havent confirmed it. Am I just remembering wrong? Did we know that the murders were captured on audio?

I agree with you. Even if the rest of the audio consisted of their last minutes (which I don’t believe) they would never have the families listen to it. I would like to hear it myself but seriously doubt it holds any valuable info. Much to my dismay...

 

[MistyWaters]

Just still learning about this horrific case and wondering - how did Libby conceal that she had the pictures / video of the killer on her phone and keep the device hidden? I had imagined if he knew about it, or thought he was on it, he'd have taken it with him, but clearly, he didn't, because as far as we know, the LE have the actual device (right?). Or... did LE get the photos / video off a cloud service?

LE have the actual phone and it was found in the area of the bodies. That’s about all we know for sure.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with you. Even if the rest of the audio consisted of their last minutes (which I don’t believe) they would never have the families listen to it. I would like to hear it myself but seriously doubt it holds any valuable info. Much to my dismay...

I agree, no way would LE play a tape to the families of the girls being murdered. Apparently they haven’t even been informed of the cause of death.

The writer also says Libby took a photo of the man in the bridge, then video. It was well publicized from the beginning the photo was a still frame taken from the video, not an actual photograph. If she hadn’t got that wrong, below is interesting because it might’ve allowed LE to narrow the time frame. On the other hand it could be incorrect, beyond only the two SC photos we’re aware of -
“They decided to walk the trail and the bridge. They took selfies and photographs and posted them on Snapchat.”

 

[Boxer]

Wasn’t it implied or suggested that LE had a search warrant for another property? I’m not referring to RL’s property but another one near there? I’ve also wondered if someone had it in for RL hence leaving bodies on his property. Another neighbor possibly? IMO

IIRC 7 search warrants were served.
I remenber 3 of them being close by.

Bicycle Bridge Rd. In Western Delphi.

Mears' property, across from the trail entrance on CR 300.

Ron Logan's property and house and whose Deer Creek, creek side acreage was where the girls were found.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Yes! I feel as though there’s a few errors too, or maybe its the author just sort of “misspeaking”, and possibly taking license in writing her article...But one of the quotes that made me catch my breath today was this one...

“Just four words, “Guys…….Down the hill”! And then with the video still going, Libby recorded her own murder, and the murder of her friend Abby.”
A Sister’s Walk for Justice: The Delphi Murders [EXCLUSIVE]

I have always been under the impression that the murders were not on audio. I haven’t yet had the chance to search any supporting statements/articles, but I thought I have read several interviews with TL, DC, and/or KR in the last couple years where they had definitively said there wasn’t much else of value recorded on the audio.

To think that the actual horrific trauma of what those girls went through is horrifying and heartwrenching, i can’t imagine how horrible that would be for them to listen to on audio. I was always under the impression that none of it was on there, or at the very leaset, they havent confirmed it. Am I just remembering wrong? Did we know that the murders were captured on audio?

I think LE has always denied that the actual murders were caught on video or audio.. I tend to believe them.
I read the article earlier and enjoyed it. It almost has a dreamy quality about it and it’s definitely more about emotions and feelings than facts.

 

[Angels27]

Unsolved: The Delphi murders - A grandfather remembers

"These were just two young teenage girls just out enjoying life," he said. "They were full of life, they had their whole lives ahead of them, they wanted to enjoy everything and anything. They were good kids out enjoying the outdoors. Not that they didn't play Xbox or video games or PlayStation or whatever, but they were truly adventurous, outside. 'Let's see what's out there.'"

I hope LE found out who they were ‘playing video games’ with. Maybe they talked about the bridge.

 

[PaulaDC]

Wasn’t it implied or suggested that LE had a search warrant for another property? I’m not referring to RL’s property but another one near there? I’ve also wondered if someone had it in for RL hence leaving bodies on his property. Another neighbor possibly? IMO

Your comment made me think about another scenario. Could BG have changed his clothing out at that searched property. Could those boots we saw have come from their yard? Just my mind wandering......moo

 

[Charlot123]

anyway back to the single perp theory and his subsequent escape...seems like they think he escaped through the woods...if so where would he end up? he cant just go endlessly through the woods, he has to come out somewhere..how far could he go? what are some possible escape routes? are there any residential pockets you can access from through the woods?

I cant see him getting out of there on foot.

I can see him getting out there on foot, but:

1) if local, it is a tremendous risk. Any random meeting could turn into a witness. If wet or bloodied, even worse. So he must have left the “kill suit” somewhere and walked out of the woods dressed pristinely.

2) if not a local, unless he is all wet and bloodied, it is not a risk, because by the time A&L will be missed, he will be far enough from Delphi.

Ergo, the need of getting rid of the clothes is still self-evident.

 

[Charlot123]

A question was posed to LE asking if the murders were planned. “No, not planned, they were victims of circumstance and opportunity.”

I’m confused as your theory appears to indicate a targeted murder involving revenge. Or don’t you believe LE’s response?

I understand “circumstance” and “opportunity” differently.

I feel that “circumstance” pertains to the situation that could have emerged several days before the murders, that presented Libby as the threat. I don’t know what it was.

“Opportunity” means that Libby had to be silenced somehow. We don’t know what the initial plan was. Maybe, threatening of bribing her?

But since the girls decided to take that walk, and they were alone, the opportunity emerged to kill them, and the murderer jumped at it.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I can see him getting out there on foot, but:

1) if local, it is a tremendous risk. Any random meeting could turn into a witness. If wet or bloodied, even worse. So he must have left the “kill suit” somewhere and walked out of the woods dressed pristinely.

2) if not a local, unless he is all wet and bloodied, it is not a risk, because by the time A&L will be missed, he will be far enough from Delphi.

Ergo, the need of getting rid of the clothes is still self-evident.

I don't really see the risk as far as being local.
If he knows the woods, he could navigate them well. There are several farms and homes along deer Creek that he could get to without being detected.

The clothing? I would guess that burying them, dropping them, finding an old well , abandoned barn, etc. etc. would not be difficult for a person that grew up there and played there most of their entire childhood.

JMO MOO AMOO

EBM grammar

Also edited to add-
I don't think risk plays much of a deterrent in this guys head- after all, he murdered two girls in broad daylight.

 

[cujenn81]

I’m way behind in the thread but just wanted to throw my 2 cents in re: fingerprinting.

I’ve been fingerprinted twice —

1. to obtain a government security clearance when I worked for TRICARE / Department of Defense (as I had access to classified medical documents)

2. to obtain TSA pre-check status (which means I get to bypass those lengthy security lines at the airport)

 

[Ravenmoon]

Not sure if I should even go here, it makes me uncomfortable to say it.

But...here it is- murder is not always as "messy" as we may think.

There are ways to complete it without a tremendous amount of blood to be present.

I hope I have not upset anyone.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[janewall]

I understand “circumstance” and “opportunity” differently.

I feel that “circumstance” pertains to the situation that could have emerged several days before the murders, that presented Libby as the threat. I don’t know what it was.

“Opportunity” means that Libby had to be silenced somehow. We don’t know what the initial plan was. Maybe, threatening of bribing her?

But since the girls decided to take that walk, and they were alone, the opportunity emerged to kill them, and the murderer jumped at it.

I'm curious, because it seems to be a commonly held belief among posters that Libby was in some way the focus of this crime. If not exactly the target (because we're told by LE that it was not a targeted crime) then at least the one who attracted the killer's attention, and the one who probably gave him the most trouble that day.

Why was Abby not "presented as the threat" that had to be silenced? Because she was younger? Smaller?

Or was it the presence of both girls that made them either an intolerable threat that he needed to eliminate, or irresistible prey?

Maybe I've missed something that points to Libby more than Abby as the one the killer glommed onto. I know there don't seem to be as many voices characterizing Abby in the press - mostly AW, and I believe Abby's grandfather has been interviewed about her a couple of times. Maybe that is why Abby is often characterized in posts as the sidekick - because we feel we know Libby better, through her sister and grandparents' words and their willingness to put themselves out in front of the public in their search for justice. They've portrayed Libby as an outsize personality - precocious, indomitable, a spitfire, fierce and intelligent and probably quite a handful for anyone who crossed her. And we've seen Libby's intelligence and presence of mind in the evidence she brilliantly managed to leave.

But that doesn't mean Libby was the girl on the bridge who caught the killer's malevolent interest, or alternately the girl he decided had to be silenced at all costs. And I don't want us to get caught up in that version of events to the exclusion of questions such as: was Abby the one who knew something he didn't want her to know? Had Abby ever seen him before?

MOO

 

[Andreee]

I don't recall factual evidence stating that the witnesses that led to the sketches saw who they think may have been BG on the trail. Is it true that is surely where they claim to have seen someone?

In particular the female witness, that says she was close enough to see his eyes were not blue, but could not tell LE what color they were. Is is stated as fact that she saw this person on the trail, or could it have been at another location, say, out on the road, or in town at a convenience store, etc.?

From everything I've read, this young teen was hanging out on the trail with her friends when she saw who she thought was BG. I believe it was before the crime took place.

 

[Andreee]

Yes! I feel as though there’s a few errors too, or maybe its the author just sort of “misspeaking”, and possibly taking license in writing her article...But one of the quotes that made me catch my breath today was this one...

“Just four words, “Guys…….Down the hill”! And then with the video still going, Libby recorded her own murder, and the murder of her friend Abby.”
A Sister’s Walk for Justice: The Delphi Murders [EXCLUSIVE]

I have always been under the impression that the murders were not on audio. I haven’t yet had the chance to search any supporting statements/articles, but I thought I have read several interviews with TL, DC, and/or KR in the last couple years where they had definitively said there wasn’t much else of value recorded on the audio.

To think that the actual horrific trauma of what those girls went through is horrifying and heartwrenching, i can’t imagine how horrible that would be for them to listen to on audio. I was always under the impression that none of it was on there, or at the very leaset, they havent confirmed it. Am I just remembering wrong? Did we know that the murders were captured on audio?

Not from what I've read, no! I am under impression the rest of the audio was 'scratchy' and that even the understandable part of the audio had to be worked with alot to bring those words out more clearly.

 

[Ozoner]

Correct
I was just saying why would BG pass by another girl/girls/guys and go for A & L ??
No matter if first sketch where we all thought for 2 yrs was BG or 2nd sketch... I am just questioning why Libby ?? why Abby ?? Why not someone else that was there that day ??
The 2nd sketch was also done at the beginning so he passed others also.. again.. why not the witness who saw him??
Why Libby ?? Why Abby ??

This question surprises me a little.

Virtually every serial killer exhibits preferences in the selection of victims. Bundy almost always went for brunettes with long hair. Most sexually motivated serial killers target a specific age range and gender, at the very least.

"An offender selects a victim, regardless of the category, based upon availability, vulnerability, and desirability. Availability is explained as the lifestyle of the victim or circumstances in which the victim is involved, that allow the offender access to the victim. Vulnerability is defined as the degree to which the victim is susceptible to attack by the offender. Desirability is described as the appeal of the victim to the offender. Desirability involves numerous factors based upon the motivation of the offender and may include factors dealing with the race, gender, ethnic background, age of the victim, or other specific preferences the offender determines."
(FBI page on serial killers.)

Occasionally a serial killer will tire of waiting and choose a victim who doesn't check all of the boxes, so to speak, but that is fairly unusual. Most serial killers will patiently wait for an ideal victim. It's possible that he had some kind of fantasy involving two young girls, but it's just as likely that only one of the two girls was his "type."