Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #135

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flashy09 said:
What stands out as abnormal to me is the way he is walking like "on a mission" across a bridge like that. Not taking in the view, not taking pictures, not seeming to be enjoying himself or even nervous. Just coming at them with his head down. Totally strange demeanor.
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Yes, true. Either someone on official business or a criminal.
 
On BJC’s ability to evade capture for so long if indeed he murdered A & L - I was looking for this in early articles on his crime against the 9-yo neighbor & couldn’t find anything one way or the other - but it kinda sounded like he might’ve lured the girl inside without setting foot outside himself. Then the thought was - maybe he never goes out & has stayed mostly in hiding whenever he’s had a home to hide in. Never being spotted by one’s neighbors or anyone else is a good investment in evading capture.
 
FromGermany1 said:
They need the last piece of the puzzle - it might not be his name. IMO
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Could be they're sure of who the killer is, but do need the last piece of evidence to prove it, and he's deceased? Would they implicate him without solid proof, since he couldn't be tried? Honestly i don't think so though, I think he may be in jail and they're wanting proof of another person's involvement. Or JBC is the culprit.
Do you suppose he tries to control the narrative surrounding the mystery like the W's did the Rhoden murders? Creepy knowing he's out there.
 
taylorss said:
On BJC’s ability to evade capture for so long if indeed he murdered A & L - I was looking for this in early articles on his crime against the 9-yo neighbor & couldn’t find anything one way or the other - but it kinda sounded like he might’ve lured the girl inside without setting foot outside himself. Then the thought was - maybe he never goes out & has stayed mostly in hiding whenever he’s had a home to hide in. Never being spotted by one’s neighbors or anyone else is a good investment in evading capture.
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I do think he kept to himself most of the time and prefers it that way, but he did record at least one Tiktok sitting in his backyard so not a complete hermit.

jmo
 
Gracie55 said:
Could be they're sure of who the killer is, but do need the last piece of evidence to prove it, and he's deceased? Would they implicate him without solid proof, since he couldn't be tried? Honestly i don't think so though, I think he may be in jail and they're wanting proof of another person's involvement. Or JBC is the culprit.
Do you suppose he tries to control the narrative surrounding the mystery like the W's did the Rhoden murders? Creepy knowing he's out there.
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I think that would be sort of backward for LE to be sure of who the killer is without sufficient evidence. That’s considered “tunnel vision” IMO, sometimes what results in wrongful convictions. It should be the proof that points toward a suspect, not the other way around IMO.

They’ve been very consistent in asking for a tip to lead to his identity.

Delphi murders update 2019: What we know about unsolved killings
“Even though no arrests have been made, Carter said he believes "we're one piece of the puzzle away from figuring out who this individual is."

"Somebody out there knows who this person is," he said. "I don't think there's multiple pieces of the puzzle. ... I think there's one piece. And it's having one individual with the strength to say that was my brother, that's my dad, or that's my cousin, that's my neighbor, my co-worker. And I think we're one piece away — one piece."…”

Feb/2021
County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet
Q. How much closer are you to an arrest than you were last year at this time?
A. We feel we, as has been stated previously, are one tip, one email away from finding the responsible party.

Feb/2021
Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions | Carroll County Comet
Q. What elements of this case make it so difficult to solve?

A. Several, however the presiding factor seems to be that whomever is responsible has never discussed it with anyone.
 
Onr
Etilema said:
It used to be a train bridge, so it is built to hold up to enormous weight.
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One the piers seems to be fully detached.
But also the ties are way closer together than on regular tracks. MOO super thick and about 4" apart.
 
Gracie55 said:
Could be they're sure of who the killer is, but do need the last piece of evidence to prove it, and he's deceased? Would they implicate him without solid proof, since he couldn't be tried?
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Snipped to address the question of what LE would do if they were certain who did it, but the person is deceased. I don't think this is what's going on in the Delphi case, but I can say that there have been numerous times LE agencies have come out to announce that a case is solved but the perpetrator has died and will never be charged. With the advent of genetic genealogy solving some of these really cold cases, we are going to see a lot of this. Sometimes LE doesn't announce the name of the person for the privacy of any surviving family, but they will say how they determined who was responsible and when they died.

If they don't have that "last piece" to fully know who was responsible, then they may tell the victims' families privately but not announce a deceased suspect publicly.
 
somequestions said:
It is hard to write any sort of profile because of what is not known in this case. But I look at the video and see a much different man. I see a man who at least looks like he is over the age of 50 at the time of the crime.

I think a lot of what I do because of Abby and Libby's reaction to this man. Without that phone video/audio it would be hard to come up with any sort of profile(my opinion).
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Snipped to highlight the part about the video and the profile.

It is very rare in a murder for a video to exist of the alleged assailant right before the criminal act began. Of course we know the well-known ones like Missy Bevers, etc. But 99% of murders don't have video and audio evidence like Delphi does. So behavioralists are used to making profiles without a video to guide them. The facts that are typically used are not things that would be shown on the video anyway - to make the profile they are looking at victimology factors like age of victim, where they encountered the offender, how far he took them, and were they killed at the same spot they were found. Were the concealed or left in the open. Were they posed. What other pre- or post-mortem behaviors did the offender do. What kind of person was likely to be in the area where they met their killer (lived or worked nearby, etc), what kind of person was in the area the bodies were left (if different)? This is the basis of the profile, not what the offender looks like.

Now is the video useless? Of course not. As TL said in The Carroll County Comet Q&A, there are still items within that video that they hope to use at trial. Factors which could enhance the profile of the offender would be his level of ease walking on the bridge and what he said to them. How did he gain their compliance, etc. His actual appearance matters very little.

For the record, I'm a few decades out from Libby and Abby's age but I'd be much less wary of a grandpa-type figure approaching me on the bridge than someone who looked like JBC. So, outside of knowing what, if any, encounter they'd had previous to him catching up to them on the bridge, I'm not sure we can say that it was his age that spooked them. I can't tell from the video what age the offender might be. In some frames he looks younger to me. All MOO.
 
Yemelyan said:
Snipped to highlight the part about the video and the profile.

It is very rare in a murder for a video to exist of the alleged assailant right before the criminal act began. Of course we know the well-known ones like Missy Bevers, etc. But 99% of murders don't have video and audio evidence like Delphi does. So behavioralists are used to making profiles without a video to guide them. The facts that are typically used are not things that would be shown on the video anyway - to make the profile they are looking at victimology factors like age of victim, where they encountered the offender, how far he took them, and were they killed at the same spot they were found. Were the concealed or left in the open. Were they posed. What other pre- or post-mortem behaviors did the offender do. What kind of person was likely to be in the area where they met their killer (lived or worked nearby, etc), what kind of person was in the area the bodies were left (if different)? This is the basis of the profile, not what the offender looks like.

Now is the video useless? Of course not. As TL said in The Carroll County Comet Q&A, there are still items within that video that they hope to use at trial. Factors which could enhance the profile of the offender would be his level of ease walking on the bridge and what he said to them. How did he gain their compliance, etc. His actual appearance matters very little.

For the record, I'm a few decades out from Libby and Abby's age but I'd be much less wary of a grandpa-type figure approaching me on the bridge than someone who looked like JBC. So, outside of knowing what, if any, encounter they'd had previous to him catching up to them on the bridge, I'm not sure we can say that it was his age that spooked them. I can't tell from the video what age the offender might be. In some frames he looks younger to me. All MOO.
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When I wrote "my opinion" within my last post, I meant that I would not have been able to come up with my own sort of profile without Abby and Libby's video/audio. I would not have any profile opinion. I did not mean it was my opinion LE came up with their profile by using the video/audio. I am sure a lot more goes into it like the signature behaviors that none of us knows about. I believe I can come up with my own sort of profile based on Abby and Libby's video/audio.

I respectfully disagree that appearance matters very little. Haven't there been profiles released where LE thinks the person they are looking for is a white person or African-American or Hispanic? Isn't this based on appearance? I think profiles can be based on eyewitness testimony and that sometimes eyewitness testimony is wrong.

I agree that based on the grainy phone video/audio no one can say for sure what age bridge guy is or what he looks like. But we all have our own opinions about what we see when we look at the video. I agree with the people that think bridge guy is an older man.

I have heard LE refer to this man as a monster a few times in this case. I think that is very dismissive. Maybe the line between ordinary and strange people has gotten a lot closer for me since I am a few decades older than Abby and Libby too. As to how Abby and Libby viewed things on the day they died, I do not know. It is only my opinion.
 
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I
flashy09 said:
That is my worry as well. I hope that LE is holding back all sorts of info, but I fear they don't have much more. Maybe the crime scene was interesting, but is there anything to pin it on somebody? I don't follow all that many cases, but Mollie Tibbetts is what introduced me to Websleuths and I don't think there is any DNA at her outside crime scene. I am in awe of the sketch drawn by witnesses on the trail . *Maybe* I could remember I passed a man and I might remember a detail or two, but to draw his face? If BG was unassuming on the trail and unseen on the bridge and did not leave DNA....I get so discouraged.
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SMK777 said:
This is exactly what always bothered me about the “young bridge guy” sketch. He looks about 18 and has the boyish good looks of a model. When I was 14, I would have seen him coming down the bridge and said, Look, that gorgeous boy is coming to flirt with us!

It was the grandpa-aged-trucker look that looked menacing, unnatural. Far too old to flirt. So what does he want?
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bbm
IMO and MOO:
It seems, THAT exactly was the cunning idea by the killer. To disguise his attraktive appearance beyond recognition. And he needed this refined disguise more than any Tom, Dick and Harry.

I don't think, JBC for example would ever do so, because anyway he isn't well known to a crowd of people. Perhaps he is even too vain for doing it, as he has not much more to offer than his look.
I don't think, JBC for example would ever be relaxed, if someone videoed him in a criminal situation. He would have feared the worst and would have done something with the phone, the BG probably didn't do.
I think, JBC for example isn't the type of criminal, who never told anyone about his double murder, done years ago. He is a dangerous and piggy criminal, but isn't a type, who has to act out on a sensational thrill-kill for helping himself over one of his mental crises. JBC seems to be a far more simple creature. - As I said already: IMO and MOO.
 
somequestions said:
This is why if someone handed me a picture of any of the persons of interest in this case so far, I would be shaking my head. I would be surprised if it was any of the people considered a person of interest in this case so far. It just does not seem like any of them is the man police are looking for.
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"considered a person of interest in this case so far", publicly - I would like to add.
 
somequestions said:
When I wrote "my opinion" within my last post, I meant that I would not have been able to come up with my own sort of profile without Abby and Libby's video/audio. I would not have any profile opinion. I did not mean it was my opinion LE came up with their profile by using the video/audio. I am sure a lot more goes into it like the signature behaviors that none of us knows about. I believe I can come up with my own sort of profile based on Abby and Libby's video/audio.

I respectfully disagree that appearance matters very little. Haven't there been profiles released where LE thinks the person they are looking for is a white person or African-American or Hispanic? Isn't this based on appearance? I think profiles can be based on eyewitness testimony and that sometimes eyewitness testimony is wrong.

I agree that based on the grainy phone video/audio no one can say for sure what age bridge guy is or what he looks like. But we all have our own opinions about what we see when we look at the video. I agree with the people that think bridge guy is an older man.

I have heard LE refer to this man as a monster a few times in this case. I think that is very dismissive. Maybe the line between ordinary and strange people has gotten a lot closer for me since I am a few decades older than Abby and Libby too. As to how Abby and Libby viewed things on the day they died, I do not know. It is only my opinion.
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I think I see where you are coming from - you are using the term "profile" like LE uses the word "description." A description of a suspect would include things like approximate or known age, weight, height, hair and eye color, clothing worn, ethnicity, etc. It's based on either known facts (they have a video) or witness descriptions (and therefore may be less certain). Of course, for quite a lot of murders LE has no description to work with at all because there were no witnesses to any part of the crime.

An offender profile is something quite different from a description of what the offender is thought to look like. The profile is a tool, designed to aid the investigation, all about how the offender behaves and what that might tell LE about his occupation, motives, etc. You may have heard in previous cases things like "believed to be a power-assertive type of rapist," or "organized killer." Those are profiling terms, considered older-style today, but generated based on offender behaviors.

There are different approaches behind making profiles, but the FBI uses a behavioral method that analyzes primarily the crime scene and the act itself and then analyzes offender behavior and offender-victim interactions. As I said in my first response, the things in the Delphi video that would be of interest to a profiler IMO would be how he carries himself across the bridge, what he says to the girls and how he says it, what he does to take control of them. As an example, if he pretended to be a cop (I'm not saying this is true, just using an example), that would be a fact that a profiler might use to say - this offender may fantasize about the power that police have. He probably doesn't have power in his own life. He may have committed domestic abuse against children or partners in the past. He may have tried to become a police officer at one point and failed, he may have attempted to work in a LE-adjacent field like security guard in the past, etc. If, instead of putting in a power act, the Delphi killer asked them if they wanted to see puppies down the hill (again, not what I think happened, but for the sake of argument), then that luring behavior would lead to different conclusions about the offender.

Just hoping to help people understand the difference between a suspect description and an offender profile. I do not claim that profiling is an exact science for solving crimes/linking related crimes. You can't make a profile without knowing what was at the crime scene, so none of us here could even attempt to make an amateur version of the profile.
 
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I don't put much faith in profiling .. they proved to be wrong more than proved right.. they usually follow cliches and are stereotypical
was there ever a case solved by a profile of the killer ?
 
sandy_80 said:
I don't put much faith in profiling .. they proved to be wrong more than proved right.. they usually follow cliches and are stereotypical
was there ever a case solved by a profile of the killer ?
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Yes, several high profile cases in fact. Of course, it's not a perfect science. It's based on statistics and prior cases, and as the human mind evolves, there will always be cases that stray way out of known/predictable behaviors.
 
sandy_80 said:
I don't put much faith in profiling .. they proved to be wrong more than proved right.. they usually follow cliches and are stereotypical
was there ever a case solved by a profile of the killer ?
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I don't think they are a perfect "science" either, but in some cases they are based on educated psychological conclusions IMO (such as, if an offender uses elaborate bindings or restraints on a very young child, that points to a significant psychological reason - that they did it because they fantasized about bondage - not out of the need to actually restrain the victim, because you would not expect a four year old child, for example, to need to be overpowered/prevented from escaping in the same way an adult would).

I don't put much stock in the profiles that say things like "this offender likely drives a late model sedan that's not well-maintained," when that's not based on anything in witness reports or found at the crime scene. On the other hand, using info about what type of victim was chosen (sex worker vs. young teens hiking in the daylight on a trail, for example), I think can give some insight into who the offender is and how he's selecting his victims.

For me, I don't think profiles are a magic wand that solves crimes in and of themselves. I think they are an investigative tool that narrows the suspect focus.
 
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