IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

[terpstra1]

I completely agree with you that they were lured on social media. The trail is in the middle of nowhere, and there are hardly ever anyone out there, especially on a cold day. The chances of the girls and another guy who is a killer being there at the same time is slim to none unless they were suppose to meet, and the girls thought they were meeting someone younger...I even played with the thought of geocaching.

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A perfect place for a sk to be on the prowl. A&L were in the wrong place at the wrong time in moo.

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[Soulmagent]

“If we come across a suspect and/or witness — or anybody — during this investigation, and we find out they’re wanted on a warrant for some other activity that has nothing to do with the double homicide, we can’t turn a blind eye to that. So we’ve made arrests,” he said.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ve-vague-glimpse-into-investigation/98545664/
I realy think this statement should have not been stated.
I hate to think someone with a warrent would have a valid piece of information would read this and not report because they know they will be arrested.

 

[ab01]

Can't believe somebody in a small boat or kayak wouldnt have stuck out like a sore thumb, being out on a creek in early February. Seems highly unlikely to me, I live in Ohio and I'm not sure I have ever seen somebody boating in the middle of the winter........My opinion no boat involved

 

[barbarababe]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ve-vague-glimpse-into-investigation/98545664/
I realy think this statement should have not been stated.
I hate to think someone with a warrent would have a valid piece of information would read this and not report because they know they will be arrested.

You can leave tips anonymously.

 

[thekarmabus]

Does anyone know if the voluntary DNA submissions stay in the system (CODIS?) permanently? Just curiosity.

Yes. It may not be in national data base but local departments where DNA laws are not as strict can keep them on file for many years.


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[Angelo]

The road that runs under the bridge on the south/east end is Rt 625. Near the bridge it is a dirt/gravel road and narrow. After going under the bridge it ends at a house.

Here are a few pictures showing the south/east end of the bridge and the road. Also shows the hill which starts at the end of the bridge and goes down to the road. (625) If you look at the maps, after crossing the road the land continues downhill and bearing to the right brings you to the creek and the crime scene.

Very isolated on the south/east side of the bridge. This would be the end of the bridge where the was videotaped by Libby.

South/east end of the bridge looking down the hill to the road that runs under it.

View from the road looking up the hill at the south/east end of the bridge

More pictures at this link.

http://www.monon.monon.org/bygone/deercreek.html

 

[Falling Down]

Falling Down and #1 Nana:

I was watching a youtube video of a guy filming while he walked over the bridge. When he got to the SE end, he panned over the left platform (where Libby would have taken that video that produced the two pictures we have). It intrigued me that there was a road down there. I thought to myself that it was a park service road and wondered if he took them down there and walked them along that road initially.

But when you asked if it was a private road. I pictured it in my head and thought about you wondering if it was a driveway.

I went back and mapped it. It is a driveway and now a whole new theory has come to my mind. Look at the map/diagram. See how close to the SE end the girls really were when they took that picture? There was no way to get back across and the exit was right there. And it not as far as it looks.

DID THEY RUN OFF THE BRIDGE AND MAKE A RUN FOR THAT HOUSE - HOPING TO REACH IT AND SAFETY?

I think "down the hilL" is a little ways down the ridge, towards the house, "down" to the road.

MOO is this guy cased the park several times beforehand. My theory is he checked both Mr. Logan's and that property to see if anyone was home that day, and may have checked both homes on previius visits.

From the 2nd floor of the house on that map would have at least some view of where the two creeks meet, where the ridge tapers and ends by the road, and the area where the girls were forced to cross the creek. Visible from the house, not visible from the main road adjacent to the property.

From Break.com, two or three days after the murders:

[FONT=&quot]A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” Cheyenne Mekisha Engles wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”[/FONT]

Two possibilities, here, if they indeed did cross the creek.

The perp had control over the girls, but they were hidden from any view from the bridge, which again may seem damned near impossible, but most of us on here have never been to this place and don't have any context/frame of reference. This is another reason why I think BG knew that park like the back of his hand. He had to get the girls off and away from the bridge.

Cheyenne may have been on the bridge when the girls were still alive, and I think the 2nd possibility within this short timeframe is they were already on the opposite bank, but hidden from views from the bridge.

It had to have been over in a matter of minutes.

 

[barbarababe]

Can't believe somebody in a small boat or kayak wouldnt have stuck out like a sore them, being out on a creek in early February. Seems highly unlikely to me, I live in Ohio and I'm not sure I have ever seen somebody boating in the middle of the winter........

I agree! Imo this guy definitely didn't hop in a boat and paddle away. There's no chance.

I was thinking about this whole crime, and how he managed to get away and no one has seen him.

It makes me wonder if he had another change of clothes under his clothes and swapped them out then hitch hiked away. Everyone is so focused on finding a guy in blue jeans and a blue jacket with a brown hoodie... what if he left the scene wearing completely different colours?

It's not far fetched to think that. Israel Keyes wore disguises when he went out and committed crimes!

 

[Just Some Guy]

Yes. It may not be in national data base but local departments where DNA laws are not as strict can keep them on file for many years.


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If Regional Databases exist, they are separate from CODIS, and would have to be individually searched. CODIS does not maintain non-badguy DNA.

 

[Spearmint]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ve-vague-glimpse-into-investigation/98545664/
I realy think this statement should have not been stated.
I hate to think someone with a warrent would have a valid piece of information would read this and not report because they know they will be arrested.

They can call the tips line and remain anonymous.

 

[forthefreefood]

I finished the map of other cases and added the railway links and am super creeped out.

Imadler what do you think?

View attachment 111569

https://drive.google.com/open?id=10IK3QgFV61VQ3T1an4gTVi_L1CM&usp=sharing

I'm not seeing the connections, but this map is awesome! Someone help me understand it! Lol. Are we just saying that the cases are close together?

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[azshadowwalker]

You can leave tips anonymously.

That's true, but many people don't trust that. They worry about caller ID, captured IP addresses, etc. What's more, I have seen previous cases where LE asks for a tipster to come forward so they can ask follow-up questions.

I just think it is a questionable statement and, even, a questionable tactic. As I said when I brought this up before, I could only see it being justified if the person is wanted for a violent crime, but he made no limiting statements about who is being arrested.

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[KenzieK]

I'm sure this has been brought up before...but the perp might be someone who has a loved one buried in that cemetery. He may not live in the area, but come through occasionally to visit the grave. That would explain why he was familiar with the area, but none of the locals recognized him as one of their own. Maybe after visiting the grave he decided to go for a stroll, or maybe he could see the girls right from the cemetery and decided to attack them. Maybe visiting the cemetery put him in a foul mood, and he took it out on those girls. It's even possible the grave doesn't belong to a "loved one", but maybe an abusive parent, and being there made him snap. I assume LE has been looking into who is buried in that cemetery and if there might be any connections. It's a long shot. But it would explain his presence there, and his ability to get away unnoticed.

 

[terpstra1]

That will be the first thing his defense attorney comes out with. Well, maybe the second thing. They'll probably try some lame insanity defense first. Then it will be all about the perp's sad childhood filled with abuse. Blah.

If true I would hope his attorney brings it up. Not because I'd like to see him get off. It a very real problem not to be taken lightly for any reason.

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[TTF14]

You can leave tips anonymously.

There's no way I, even as a goody two-shoes without any kind of record, would expect the "anonymous" part of that to be true. And even if it were true initially, I would assume the FBI would be able to track me!

 

[jjhoward33]

That will be the first thing his defense attorney comes out with. Well, maybe the second thing. They'll probably try some lame insanity defense first. Then it will be all about the perp's sad childhood filled with abuse. Blah.

I work for a criminal defense attorney in the area and I have a really hard time sometimes. I actually quit for awhile bc some of the bigger cases and certain appeals really bugged me.



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[skibaboo]

I'm not seeing the connections, but this map is awesome! Someone help me understand it! Lol. Are we just saying that the cases are close together?

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I actually don't know, I'm just like a map bot lol

Imadler was researching possible connections to other missing persons, I offered to make a map of a list of them, then train tracks were brought into it, then I added more. Now my brain is too frazzled to understand if it's creepy or if it just looks creepy. I'm gonna go try and wash the creepy off in a hot bath, hopefully de-frazzle my brain too!

Maybe someone else can better explain?

 

[Soulmagent]

I agree! Imo this guy definitely didn't hop in a boat and paddle away. There's no chance.

I was thinking about this whole crime, and how he managed to get away and no one has seen him.

It makes me wonder if he had another change of clothes under his clothes and swapped them out then hitch hiked away. Everyone is so focused on finding a guy in blue jeans and a blue jacket with a brown hoodie... what if he left the scene wearing completely different colours?

It's not far fetched to think that. Israel Keyes wore disguises when he went out and committed crimes!

No one searching for the girls on the 13th or on the 14th were looking for anyone except 2 girls they thought were lost in the woods or hiding out at a friends house.

 

[lmadler]

Here's what I think he was doing. He was walking with both his hands partially in his pants pockets, had a weapon in his hoodie pocket, reached up under his jacket with one hand grabbing the weapon and pulled it out. You can see if you are reaching into the hoodie pocket while keeping the other hand in your pants pocket it will expose that half of the bottom of the hoodie but not the other half.

I think this. Maybe.

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[Ms Suzanne]

Would they be able to trace and find out any unidentifiable person on snapchat and find out who it was?

if someone posts a snap story, you as a user only have 24h to view it

law enforcement has up to 31 days to request the metadata (user account info, time, device info) of who viewed the snap story

so if law enforcement requested the metadata from snapchat within 31d of it being posted to a snap story they will be able to retrieve that metadata and know each user account, time, and device that it was viewed from and narrow down who were her actual friends and if anyone is unidentifiable or matches the suspect