IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

[#1nana]

A house and out building would be my guess. Also looks like stone and not cement. Note the grass growing in the middle of the drive.

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Good observation!

 

[Falling Down]

I'd like to bring up footwear, again. MOO is they crossed both creeks, and BG planned for that to happen well in advance.

A member brought up booties. I think booties used in an industrial, food processing, or lab setting would not be used.

He's wearing what some have described as baggy jeans. What, exactly, is under those jeans? What footwear does he have on?

Is he wearing a skin-tight piece of clothing underneath those jeans? Something waterproof? Is it something which could also integrate coverings for footwear? What's on his feet looks black.

Is it a wet suit, with part of it cut off, say the top part? The guy might be a kayaker, maybe that's how he knows the creek, but he may not have used a kayak that day. Or maybe he at least is familiar with waterproof articles of clothing, or became such because of his plan for this, and perhaps other, crimes.

Some have mentioned it was "too cold" to cross the creeks. MOO is bridge guy was prepared to cross the creeks beforehand. I doubt he cared about the comfort of his victims, but he may have had something waterproof on, something which also covered his footwear.

 

[Soulmagent]

That's true, but many people don't trust that. They worry about caller ID, captured IP addresses, etc. What's more, I have seen previous cases where LE asks for a tipster to come forward so they can ask follow-up questions.

I just think it is a questionable statement and, even, a questionable tactic. As I said when I brought this up before, I could only see it being justified if the person is wanted for a violent crime, but he made no limiting statements about who is being arrested.

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I am sorry, I really did not see where you bought it up before! I have read most post but the traffic is making the site slow for me it think,.

 

[Grimlynn]

I found him. picture is very interesting. moo

I just noticed they sold the property the same year the RSO was convicted - 2011


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[jjhoward33]

I think "down the hilL" is a little ways down the ridge, towards the house, "down" to the

It had to have been over in a matter of minutes.

RSBM. Any idea of the address of this house?


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[liltexans]

I work for a criminal defense attorney in the area and I have a really hard time sometimes. I actually quit for awhile bc some of the bigger cases and certain appeals really bugged me.

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My brother is a defense attorney and sometimes I ask him how he can sleep at night. Half-joking of course.

 

[Angelo]

Here's what I think he was doing. He was walking with both his hands partially in his pants pockets, had a weapon in his hoodie pocket, reached up under his jacket with one hand grabbing the weapon and pulled it out. You can see if you are reaching into the hoodie pocket while keeping the other hand in your pants pocket it will expose that half of the bottom of the hoodie but not the other half.

Agree!

 

[Elley Mae]

They can call the tips line and remain anonymous.

I would only believe that if it's from a payphone with gloved hands & a disguised voice.

 

[forthefreefood]

I completely agree with you that they were lured on social media. The trail is in the middle of nowhere, and there are hardly ever anyone out there, especially on a cold day. The chances of the girls and another guy who is a killer being there at the same time is slim to none unless they were suppose to meet, and the girls thought they were meeting someone younger...I even played with the thought of geocaching.

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There were other people there that day too so I'm not sure what point you are making.. for locals it is definitely somewhere normal to go to hike. Abby's mom has pics of the bridge posted to her SMS account before any of this even happened.

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[HockeyMom330]

I completely agree with you that they were lured on social media. The trail is in the middle of nowhere, and there are hardly ever anyone out there, especially on a cold day. The chances of the girls and another guy who is a killer being there at the same time is slim to none unless they were suppose to meet, and the girls thought they were meeting someone younger...I even played with the thought of geocaching.

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Statistically speaking the chances of being abducted and murdered by a random stranger are very low. However, I would be more readily inclined to agree with you that SM played a role if it wasn't already established that the girls liked to hike together as a common recreational activity. If this was the first time ever they had asked to be dropped off for a hike, red flags would go up, because it would be out of character and out of the norm. But since sports and hiking was part of their regular activities, it makes me wonder if it was just a coincidence that they crossed paths with the wrong person.

BG may have been trolling for a victim(s). The fact that it was a cool, not cold, day would play to his advantage as he may have felt there would be some people out for a hike or jog (potential targets), but likely not an overwhelming number of people on the trails (potential witnesses).

Has it been considered that the proximity to Valentine's Day may have played a role? Perhpas BG recently experienced a separation or divorce, or is a resentful loner that that has never been able to have a satisfying relationship with a woman. Usually some stressful event triggers the behaviour of a serial killer.

 

[ab01]

Would they be able to trace and find out any unidentifiable person on snapchat and find out who it was?

I would say its highly likely, With the technical capabilities of the FBI now a days its very hard to be annoymous on a smart phone. People don't realize that many times when you have apps open, even if they are open in the background. They can very likely give away your location. Like I have said from the early days, I don't believe SM was involved as LE would have already had them in custody with all the info they have. One other thing to keep in mind as far as somebody stalking their snapchat. Snapchat is set up in such a way that only people you allow to can view your snaps.

 

[barbarababe]

No one searching for the girls on the 13th or on the 14th were looking for anyone except 2 girls they thought were lost in the woods or hiding out at a friends house.

<modsnip> My comment never specified dates. People are still looking for him and are focused on his clothes.<modsnip>
Law enforcement have been asking anyone to think back to if they saw anything on those days and released the photo of him and everyone is so focused on his clothes but he could have left the area dressed in something else.

 

[liltexans]

If true I would hope his attorney brings it up. Not because I'd like to see him get off. It a very real problem not to be taken lightly for any reason.

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I don't take child abuse lightly, but most abused children do not grow up to be child murderers. There is no excuse for what this perp did. None.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think "down the hilL" is a little ways down the ridge, towards the house, "down" to the road.

MOO is this guy cased the park several times beforehand. My theory is he checked both Mr. Logan's and that property to see if anyone was home that day, and may have checked both homes on previius visits.

From the 2nd floor of the house on that map would have at least some view of where the two creeks meet, where the ridge tapers and ends by the road, and the area where the girls were forced to cross the creek. Visible from the house, not visible from the main road adjacent to the property.

From Break.com, two or three days after the murders:



Two possibilities, here, if they indeed did cross the creek.

The perp had control over the girls, but they were hidden from any view from the bridge, which again may seem damned near impossible, but most of us on here have never been to this place and don't have any context/frame of reference. This is another reason why I think BG knew that park like the back of his hand. He had to get the girls off and away from the bridge.

Cheyenne may have been on the bridge when the girls were still alive, and I think the 2nd possibility within this short timeframe is they were already on the opposite bank, but hidden from views from the bridge.

It had to have been over in a matter of minutes.

Cheyanna was on the bridge at 349 , she posted the exact time .

 

[barbarababe]

I would only believe that if it's from a payphone with gloved hands & a disguised voice.

Watch the press conference. It's totally anonymous.

 

[Elley Mae]

No one searching for the girls on the 13th or on the 14th were looking for anyone except 2 girls they thought were lost in the woods or hiding out at a friends house.

Family & iirc others looked for them on the 13th till it got too dark. Jmo

 

[trenchmouth]

How tall is the suspect? Has LE released an estimate? I would think someone could recreate the photo with same smart phone and same position and estimate within an inch or so.

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[Penny4them]

The road that runs under the bridge on the south/east end is Rt 625. Near the bridge it is a dirt/gravel road and narrow. After going under the bridge it ends at a house.

Here are a few pictures showing the south/east end of the bridge and the road. Also shows the hill which starts at the end of the bridge and goes down to the road. (625) If you look at the maps, after crossing the road the land continues downhill and bearing to the right brings you to the creek and the crime scene.

Very isolated on the south/east side of the bridge. This would be the end of the bridge where the was videotaped by Libby.

South/east end of the bridge looking down the hill to the road that runs under it.

View from the road looking up the hill at the south/east end of the bridge

More pictures at this link.

http://www.monon.monon.org/bygone/deercreek.html

Thanks so much for this info, really put things in perspective and confirms the south end is easily accessible.

 

[layer]

This is where they found Lyric & Lizzie, look familiar?

 

[heaterann]

<modsnip>This is worrisome. Related to Libby and Abby? Disappears in a park with trails, creek and bridge?

Been saying this one was possibly linked for awhile, plus the railroad is right by this one as well, I also think she looks similar to Abby.