IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #63

[Westgate]

Without trawling through the whole thread on the murder of the Iowa girls - was there anything to go on at all in that case that was made public? Any suspicious sightings etc?

 

[minazoe]

Some of us thought it may be a piece of the handle of a carrier bag, rope, headphones or motorcycle googles.

zip ties? shudder...

 

[Bootsctr]

Without trawling through the whole thread on the murder of the Iowa girls - was there anything to go on at all in that case that was made public? Any suspicious sightings etc?

There was a vehicle of interest, a white older model SUV type. Sadly, there was never a sketch of a POI.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

I haven't been around for a while, however, I have simply come to the conclusion these two young ladies saw something they weren't meant to see and someone up to no good. What that was I have no idea. The someone /ones up to no good panicked and sadly cost the girls their lives. I don't think it was pre planned I really do on this occasion think the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time and saw something and could be classed as witnesses to another/different crime. All IMPO

KR
R

 

[FrostedGlass]

Agreed...on this and most other points. I spent a great deal of time in the image thread reading to the expert opinions on the pics. I came away with:
There is no gun in the pocket;
The pics are from video with no adjustments;
Difficult to tell much about details because it did come from video.

IMO....the sketch should be future focus for a person living in a 3-4 hour radius of Delphi. Covers a great deal of territory and why surrounding states are publishing the sketch.


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I missed a lot of conversation in that thread so the 'no gun' opinion really surprises me.

With every part of the BG pics, our opinions were very diverse; except for seeing the gun. Didn't the majority agree there is a gun? And once it was seen, it could not be un-seen.

I wish a reporter would ask LE what the heck they think that white thing is.

 

[cluciano63]

Just heard Lt. Kenda on ID channel show Homicide say that ID sketches are iseful for ruling people out. He did not sound hopeful as far as finding a suspect.

 

[cluciano63]

I think law enforcement keep these details private for investigative purposes and in the event of false confessions they can determine whether the details are real of fake.

I know, but often they simply decide on certain factors to withhold. Not withhold absolutely everything when they do not have a suspect after several months.

 

[kwash]

I wanted to reply with a quote from the Images Discussion thread, but it is closed.

In that thread It's Not That mentioned the light colored "thing" at what appears to be the opening of BG's jacket might be a logo on a hoodie (the white "loop" that some have said looks like a ?, goggles, a skull, rope or plastic bag handles). I think it looks like the Pittsburgh Pirates P logo. The "loop" of the P has the distinctive points on it like the Pirates logo.

 

[JazzTune]

One point I would like to make is if it is the same serial killer he would have been consumed with making it happen, willing to spend far more time and effort than we can possibly imagine. There was a man with an internet relationship with a young girl that was recently arrested and early in their "relationship" he had managed to get a "throw away" cell phone to her so their communications did not show up on her regular phone. There are also a lot of tech savvy kids out there so if any teen wants a phone to hide things from their parents they do have access. I live in a very rural remote area and when my teen grandson came to visit this summer he met a boy down the street that is so tech savvy it is scary. I would have had no idea, he doesn't even seem the type to me. A lot of things are going on with teens that are far beyond what we can fathom.

Another possibility is if she posted in any photography groups, I have no doubt there are bad people of every variety that follow different groups. It is possible at one point a post was made about plans to go to the bridge that day to take pictures; a person lurking or even a regular poster could have decided to follow up on that and made the discovery that to him it would be a good place for what he had in mind.

Snap chat locating is real, locating people that check in online at different areas is real; teens and young adults often surprise their friends by meeting up with them after knowing where they are, it would be naive to think bad people could not do the same.

It could also have been somewhat random, if the date was the most important thing to him and he had chosen the location he may have went there with the idea of murdering someone on that day, not even expecting he would find two. If that was the case he may have felt it was his destiny when he saw the two girls together. I do think the murderer is a serial killer and do think he rarely kills two even if it is the same killer as the IA girls. Murdering two at a time would be a very hard thing to do, and would likely have him caught much sooner. I think the difference is many SKs would hesitate to try to manage two and this SK is confident he can manage it so when the opportunity is there he doesn't hesitate.

Really great post! You bring out the very current dangers of daily casual practices of many teens.

I believe you're right on the money in reference to the perp possibly following any postings Libby might have made to any photography groups. Great observation!

Libby loved photography and it's very plausible this could have been the perp's path of entrance, especially with the SnapChat location dangers.

The poster, BeesInMyBonnet, linked a good video a couple of days ago narrated by LE, which showed that anyone with the SnapChat app can see and pinpoint the exact location of anyone else who is using it, if that person does not have their settings modified.

The demonstration of it was beyond frightening.

Your post summarized the possibilities and the dangers very well. Thanks so much for sharing your good ideas...

 

[Shiressleuth]

I wanted to reply with a quote from the Images Discussion thread, but it is closed.

In that thread It's Not That mentioned the light colored "thing" at what appears to be the opening of BG's jacket might be a logo on a hoodie (the white "loop" that some have said looks like a ?, goggles, a skull, rope or plastic bag handles). I think it looks like the Pittsburgh Pirates P logo. The "loop" of the P has the distinctive points on it like the Pirates logo.

View attachment 120687
View attachment 120688

Good thought. Or 'P' for Purdue? Were Purdue off on the 13th?

 

[carbuff]

One point I would like to make is if it is the same serial killer he would have been consumed with making it happen, willing to spend far more time and effort than we can possibly imagine. There was a man with an internet relationship with a young girl that was recently arrested and early in their "relationship" he had managed to get a "throw away" cell phone to her so their communications did not show up on her regular phone. There are also a lot of tech savvy kids out there so if any teen wants a phone to hide things from their parents they do have access. I live in a very rural remote area and when my teen grandson came to visit this summer he met a boy down the street that is so tech savvy it is scary. I would have had no idea, he doesn't even seem the type to me. A lot of things are going on with teens that are far beyond what we can fathom.

Another possibility is if she posted in any photography groups, I have no doubt there are bad people of every variety that follow different groups. It is possible at one point a post was made about plans to go to the bridge that day to take pictures; a person lurking or even a regular poster could have decided to follow up on that and made the discovery that to him it would be a good place for what he had in mind.

Snap chat locating is real, locating people that check in online at different areas is real; teens and young adults often surprise their friends by meeting up with them after knowing where they are, it would be naive to think bad people could not do the same.

It could also have been somewhat random, if the date was the most important thing to him and he had chosen the location he may have went there with the idea of murdering someone on that day, not even expecting he would find two. If that was the case he may have felt it was his destiny when he saw the two girls together. I do think the murderer is a serial killer and do think he rarely kills two even if it is the same killer as the IA girls. Murdering two at a time would be a very hard thing to do, and would likely have him caught much sooner. I think the difference is many SKs would hesitate to try to manage two and this SK is confident he can manage it so when the opportunity is there he doesn't hesitate.

That's a good point about the intensity and focus, and it made me think that it would be possible that if the date and the place are that important to him, perhaps the nature of the victim isn't as important to him. If he hadn't found two girls enjoying a day off, he would have killed a jogger or dog walker or whoever happened to be there.

Too bad there's not more information to work from.

 

[kwash]

Purdue doesn't have the distinctive points on the P like the Pittsburgh Pirates do. The points show better in this photo:

 

[krkrjx]

I can't see why these two girls would have been targeted by a stranger. Granted, we don't know every aspect of their lives and what one or both may have done online but from all I've heard they were normal young teens.

Sure, it would probably have been easy to target them through online sites if someone wanted to do that. Yes, there are many very bad people in this world and yes, some of them use the internet to fulfill their sick desires.

What I see with the information I have so far regarding Abby and Libby is this guy was probably going around ready to pounce when opportunity struck. He probably was armed, maybe carried ropes or zip ties or what have you, as a matter of routine just in case he happened upon the right situation to play out his evil fantasies.

I think he was in the right place at the right time to prey upon these young girls. He probably was on the lookout for a female with her guard down and as luck would have it, he found two. This probably just excited him all the more.

I will concede that this could have been a targeted hit but to me it feels more like Abby and Libby were just totally out of luck that day and fell prey to a monster.

 

[minazoe]

this guy looks one hundred percent harmless. is he wearing sneakers? addidas? I can't tell. He looks like every guy in the midwest.

to me he doesn't look factory, he looks middle class casual, if those are addidas, those are fashionable shoes...my eyes are bad today but I feel like I can see the white stripes on the sides..

that hat is a throwback..wonder if lands end still sells those, probably can still get a hat like that at sears, but that hat could even be hipsterish depending on who is wearing it. The jeans are definitely dad jeans, the jacket is total dad wear.

my money is on married with kids, or he raided his own dad's closet.

anyone got a bead on the shoes?

moo

 

[borndem]

Originally Posted by Henry2326

Agreed...on this and most other points. I spent a great deal of time in the image thread reading to the expert opinions on the pics. I came away with:
There is no gun in the pocket;
The pics are from video with no adjustments;
Difficult to tell much about details because it did come from video.

IMO....the sketch should be future focus for a person living in a 3-4 hour radius of Delphi. Covers a great deal of territory and why surrounding states are publishing the sketch.


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I missed a lot of conversation in that thread so the 'no gun' opinion really surprises me.

With every part of the BG pics, our opinions were very diverse; except for seeing the gun. Didn't the majority agree there is a gun? And once it was seen, it could not be un-seen.

I wish a reporter would ask LE what the heck they think that white thing is.

It may be that he simply told them he had a gun while keeping his right or left hand in his pocket and told them to stop & then zip-tied them together and held the zip tie and told them what to do. He could have come up behind one of them with a real knife at her neck and ordered both of them to -- etc., etc. We don't (and will we ever, if there is any more) have all the audio or video, so who knoze?

With regard to the killer of Lyric & Elizabeth, the case is still being investigated, and a new possibility for their murders is mentioned as of July, 2017 -- in the article linked below. I don't know how much info, etc., is shared from state to state; I'm not so sure that they do that as much as they would like. Maybe someone here on WS knows details about such sharing.

Jeff Altmayer, 58, was charged with trying to entice children in Jasper, Monona and Grundy County by offering them $100 to get in his van. Altmayer was arrested in November and accused of trying to lure a 6-year-old girl in his car near Onawa. KWWL reported July 12, 2017, that Altmayer is also suspected in two other incidents — one happening last June near the Dike City Park, and another a couple weeks later near Clay Street Park in Cedar Falls. When asked about Altmayer on July 12, 2017, Roehrkasse told KWWL, “The most I would say is that he is one of our leads and I will leave it at that.”

https://iowacoldcases.org/case-summaries/lyric-cook-and-elizabeth-collins/


I think he has been arrested, so....

 

[Yemelyan]

I can't see why these two girls would have been targeted by a stranger. Granted, we don't know every aspect of their lives and what one or both may have done online but from all I've heard they were normal young teens.

Sure, it would probably have been easy to target them through online sites if someone wanted to do that. Yes, there are many very bad people in this world and yes, some of them use the internet to fulfill their sick desires.

What I see with the information I have so far regarding Abby and Libby is this guy was probably going around ready to pounce when opportunity struck. He probably was armed, maybe carried ropes or zip ties or what have you, as a matter of routine just in case he happened upon the right situation to play out his evil fantasies.

I think he was in the right place at the right time to prey upon these young girls. He probably was on the lookout for a female with her guard down and as luck would have it, he found two. This probably just excited him all the more.

I will concede that this could have been a targeted hit but to me it feels more like Abby and Libby were just totally out of luck that day and fell prey to a monster.

Great post. I agree with everything you wrote. In terms of the opportunistic nature of this type of crime, I'm reminded of the serial killer Michael Ross. He raped and killed several adult women and then on a whim picked up two hitchhiking 13 year olds. He drove them to a wooded area, locked one in the trunk, raped and killed the other. Then he strangled the girl in the trunk (but did not sexually assault her) as she was the only witness to what he had done. So one girl was his target and it was just bad luck that her friend was with her that day. If there are details of the Delphi crime scene that indicate only one girl was the "target," and I believe there might be - didn't LE say early on that "these girls were so close that they would never abandon each other," or even something like "Libby stayed with her friend" (I'm paraphrasing)? If only one girl was the target of his sadism, that changes the nature of the crime.

 

[Henry2326]

I haven't been around for a while, however, I have simply come to the conclusion these two young ladies saw something they weren't meant to see and someone up to no good. What that was I have no idea. The someone /ones up to no good panicked and sadly cost the girls their lives. I don't think it was pre planned I really do on this occasion think the girls were in the wrong place at the wrong time and saw something and could be classed as witnesses to another/different crime. All IMPO

KR
R

Reacher: I agree 100%...no serial killer (other than he killed these 2 lovely girls), no sexual motivation, and no pre-planning.
They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and possibly saw something or the killer thought they took a pic of it.

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[Butterfly_Rises]

If you type in the address for Monon High Bridge 1030 N. Washington Delphi, IN 46923 , under Delphi Indiana sex offender search 12 people come up . One of the perpetrators is wearing a blue coat in his mug shot just like the one in the picture and he actually looks a lot like the sketch just recently released

 

[TeaTime]

Purdue doesn't have the distinctive points on the P like the Pittsburgh Pirates do. The points show better in this photo:

Would a Pirates cap be navy with a bit white "P" on it? Could this be a PP bill cap stuck in his jacket for changing his appearance quickly? He has 2 head coverings that we know of, maybe he had 3.

 

[gregjrichards]

If you type in the address for Monon High Bridge 1030 N. Washington Delphi, IN 46923 , under Delphi Indiana sex offender search 12 people come up . One of the perpetrators is wearing a blue coat in his mug shot just like the one in the picture and he actually looks a lot like the sketch just recently released

If I remember rightly search warrants were issued in the beginning of this tragedy I'm sure he has been looked at thoroughly. I was shocked at the number of sex offenders in Delphi and Indiana as a whole, though maybe it's because we don't have a sex offender registry here in the U.K.