IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #63

[cnmccarthy]

Thanks Ursamajr, for your input. I really appreciate it! I have no personal knowledge of SnapChat at all. The information upon which I'm basing my opinion is from the video that was linked by the poster, BeesInMyBonnet, a couple days ago.

The video is narrated by LE and he demonstrates the app. It shows clearly that anyone who has the app can clearly pinpoint another person's location on the map with no problem at all, unless that person has modified their settings to ghost (invisible) mode, or limited it to select friends only. It was his contention that many of the younger teen users were not modifying their settings.

That's why he made the video and was sounding the alarm. He wanted them (and their parents) to be aware of this very real danger. He demonstrates exactly on the video how to modify those settings.

Libby and Abby were using SnapChat that very day. No one has ever said whether they were in safe mode or not, or if they were even aware of the dangers.

The discussion here has now centered on whether the perp might have been able to find them that way.

I really applaud you for using the app safely. Thanks again for jumping in and sharing your knowledge and thoughts...

Snapchat's gps features were not yet out when they were murdered. It was a recent update.

 

[Bently]

The prey BG was seeking was an 11 - 14yo female, jmho. Traveling in pairs did not save the girls.

AW/LG ate dinner while using Facetime with each other. They had a sleepover the evening before, and I believe they were using SnapChat during their last 24 hours.

Perhaps the two girls, via SnapChat, thought they were meeting with a guy, near their own age, who made one or both feel wanted, needed, special and beautiful but is was geared for the fraudulent seduction of a child. The two girls agree to meet at High Bridge at 2:30. When they see BG is not the hot teenager portrayed via SnapChat, they video his approach and capture audio, including but not limited to, "Down the Hill".

Otherwise, if the girls sent out a SnapChat when they arrived, the killer would have less than an hour's notice to be ready to pounce on High Bridge.

Yes, Abby and Libby were targets, possibly arranged via SnapChat. Using that app, BG was able to control the ironic date of the meeting, hence, the precise time. This is a new angle for me to consider. Until an arrest, I still feel two or more really, really bad guys were involved.

I prefer to go with TOS here. I have not heard that there was facetime.

 

[Shiressleuth]

This was very interesting about the person you linked to that has been arrested and is being looked at for other crimes:

"KCCI said court records show Altmayer was working as a traveling automobile damage field inspector.

“It’s very concerning to us when you have an individual like that that has the access that he does through his employment at the time to basically roam the state or roam the Midwest,” Mitch Mortvedt, Head of Field Operations for the Iowa DCI, said of Altmayer."

Yes I agree it was interesting including the up to date comments.

 

[Falling Down]

I don't think they were lured to the bring for many reasons, but one of the most simple being that there would be an electronic record of that, and LE would have it. Even if the person on the other end was using an alibi, there would still be a LOT of information that could be gathered from the electronic trail. LE seems to know very little. I think they would know a lot more if BG had had contacts with the girls before hand

It's actually pretty easy to cover one's tracks, online, if people are careful and consistent about it.

I learned a lot about about SnapChat, because of this case. The company has had a reputation for lax security wince its inception. When LE across the world try to get info from the company, often times they are reluctant to hand anything over, and they're willing to fight it in Canadian court, where they are based.

If I had kids, I would ban them from using the service. It's that bad, security-wise, and people across the world have used the apps to commit many crimes.

Let's presume our perp is fairly tech and internet savvy, and wants to use online methods to search for victims and kill sites. He could use a computer which, technically, can's be traced to him. He uses it in public places, on free WiFi channels, which are thus connected to fairly open servers via whatever internet service the establishment has.

He could have used IP addresses from anywhere. A chain restaurant. An international one pulled from the internet. Etc. Then used Tor, a VPN, etc., to try and conceal his exact location. DNS cloaks and Private Internet Access are other ways for a server to be blocked from seeing what you're doing.

JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

this only thing that makes me hesitant about this theory is that you can't just see anyone's snapchat and therefor wouldn't be able to see just anyone's location. People cannot friend or even follow you without you approving them first. No one with the app that i know would friend anyone without knowing who they are first since it is such a personal app.


-ssdgm-

ssdgm!

 

[Shiressleuth]

Do you think BG may be a college student who attended the PU?

Or a teacher, or other staff or who knows but just the "P" made me wonder. Google Purdue sweatshirts to see the designs. The white could be the top of the capital letter "P", "R" or "D" possibly IMOO.
Also were Purdue off on the 13th?

 

[MistyM]

i, too think he works in IT. a few people tend to still think that only younger people understand the internet or have that 'internet savvy'. I mean how old is bill gates? i believe he could have tracked them, but i would probably add that if he did, he must have known who one of them was and kinda stalked her.. sounds like a movie, but weirder stuff has happened right?

It's actually pretty easy to cover one's tracks, online, if people are careful and consistent about it.

I learned a lot about about SnapChat, because of this case. The company has had a reputation for lax security wince its inception. When LE across the world try to get info from the company, often times they are reluctant to hand anything over, and they're willing to fight it in Canadian court, where they are based.

If I had kids, I would ban them from using the service. It's that bad, security-wise, and people across the world have used the apps to commit many crimes.

Let's presume our perp is fairly tech and internet savvy, and wants to use online methods to search for victims and kill sites. He could use a computer which, technically, can's be traced to him. He uses it in public places, on free WiFi channels, which are thus connected to fairly open servers via whatever internet service the establishment has.

He could have used IP addresses from anywhere. A chain restaurant. An international one pulled from the internet. Etc. Then used Tor, a VPN, etc., to try and conceal his exact location. DNS cloaks and Private Internet Access are other ways for a server to be blocked from seeing what you're doing.

JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

It's actually pretty easy to cover one's tracks, online, if people are careful and consistent about it.

I learned a lot about about SnapChat, because of this case. The company has had a reputation for lax security wince its inception. When LE across the world try to get info from the company, often times they are reluctant to hand anything over, and they're willing to fight it in Canadian court, where they are based.

If I had kids, I would ban them from using the service. It's that bad, security-wise, and people across the world have used the apps to commit many crimes.

Let's presume our perp is fairly tech and internet savvy, and wants to use online methods to search for victims and kill sites. He could use a computer which, technically, can's be traced to him. He uses it in public places, on free WiFi channels, which are thus connected to fairly open servers via whatever internet service the establishment has.

He could have used IP addresses from anywhere. A chain restaurant. An international one pulled from the internet. Etc. Then used Tor, a VPN, etc., to try and conceal his exact location. DNS cloaks and Private Internet Access are other ways for a server to be blocked from seeing what you're doing.

JMO

If you are using wi fi from a pub or restaurant for instance, is the IP address that shows up the one from that pub or restaurant so the person is untraceable? Is it that easy to be untraceable?

 

[Shiressleuth]

i, too think he works in IT. a few people tend to still think that only younger people understand the internet or have that 'internet savvy'. I mean how old is bill gates? i believe he could have tracked them, but i would probably add that if he did, he must have known who one of them was and kinda stalked her.. sounds like a movie, but weirder stuff has happened right?

I'm sure you didn't mean BG stands for Bill Gates did you?

 

[Blue Skies]

Thank you very much! This is such an excellent post. You addressed so thoroughly the legitimate concerns that have been raised by others.

That's really interesting too about the serial killer in Louisiana. Thank you for bringing that knowledge to this thread. Good information to know...

I'd like to add to what Brighty said about the Louisiana serial killer. I actually started to post this last night, but was too sleepy. When they did release a sketch for the person of interest, it was of a white male. For months people were suspicious of every white male who even remotely resembled that sketch. The killer was a black man who did not resemble the sketch at all in my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtnlites]

I don't feel that this was an electronic stalking (for lack of better word). Although I think it's highly possible that BG knew of their plans, I feel that it was through another means: he overheard them talking, is a friend of the family and knew they would be there, heard of their plans through one of their friends, etc.

 

[mtnlites]

There's been some speculation they were lured into this by some variety of social media app but I'm still of the belief they went out there simply as a day out at the park trail. The bad guy was waiting for a female victim and these two girls appeared. Just my intuition from what I've read so far.

This is also my intuition. I believe he was out looking for a victim, any victim really, and his excitement rose at the thought of getting TWO at once. Two young teenage girls? There might have been a thrill of a chase there. I don't think he was planning on killing two people but when the opportunity presented itself, he went for it. I also think they were just out there for a walk in the park, too. To take pictures. (Going mostly on what Mike Patty has said in interviews.) I think that if there was a bigger electronic trail involved, LE's comments to the public would have taken a different direction by now. The way the crime has been presented, so far, has been in a "these girls were out for a walk and this man is our person of interest because he was caught on video approaching/accosting them-do you have any information" kind of way. If there was an electronic trail, I feel like LE would be putting out a call of "has any other teen girls been approached online by X person, or been asked to meet in X location, etc." I think they'd be more interested in knowing if other local girls were also "observed" in a similar manner because, in most cases, if he'd been looking for a victim then he would've had several on the line.

 

[Heathyheath_]

This only thing that makes me hesitant about this theory is that you can't just see anyone's snapchat and therefor wouldn't be able to see just anyone's location. People cannot friend or even follow you without you approving them first. No one with the app that I know would friend anyone without knowing who they are first since it is such a personal app.


-SSDGM-

This Snapchat location feature was only added last month. Abi and Libby couldn't have fell victim to somebody who seen them on it because back in February this technology simply didn't exist. If anything i feel like Abby and Libby might have benefited from having this technology in February, at the very least a friend could have used it to track their location and find them sooner.

Personally if I was a parent I'd want my child to have this feature, with it set so only I could see where they were. It could save lives as much as people believe it could help take them away

 

[Ember123]

This was very interesting about the person you linked to that has been arrested and is being looked at for other crimes:

"KCCI said court records show Altmayer was working as a traveling automobile damage field inspector.

“It’s very concerning to us when you have an individual like that that has the access that he does through his employment at the time to basically roam the state or roam the Midwest,” Mitch Mortvedt, Head of Field Operations for the Iowa DCI, said of Altmayer."

Also according to LinkedIn THIS one claimed to be a Professional Photographer (and Home Security specialist) ... maybe he used the photog avenue to link up with young girls? These guys so conniving.

 

[Ember123]

Snapchat's gps features were not yet out when they were murdered. It was a recent update.

So you mean on Feb 13 a Snapchatter's location was obtainable by others and only Since Then there is an option to hide one's location? Just wanting to clarify, Thanks!

 

[Heathyheath_]

So you mean on Feb 13 a Snapchatter's location was obtainable by others and only Since Then there is an option to hide one's location? Just wanting to clarify, Thanks!

To answer for him, he means a Snapchatters location was available to NOBODY on February 13th. Obviously if Libby or Abby had taken a photo with the caption 'at Monon Bridge today,' or something similar and broadcasted it out that would be different but at the time Snapchat sharing your location was a feature that didn't exist

 

[Ursamajr]

The video is narrated by LE and he demonstrates the app. It shows clearly that anyone who has the app can clearly pinpoint another person's location on the map with no problem at all, unless that person has modified their settings to ghost (invisible) mode, or limited it to select friends only.

Sorry for trimming down your post I hope that's ok. I agree that anyone *as long as they are your friend* can see where you are. When they introduced this feature the default setting was that it was disabled. You are in "ghost" mode until you turn it on.

The other thing about snapchat is that you can't just present yourself as another person. You have to take a new photo or new video. You can't upload and shoot out pictures that you find on the internet. The only way that BG could present himself as a teenage boy or anyone else would be to have that person near him, take their picture or have them take a video and let him send it as his own.

The program is almost the opposite of instagram. Instagram you can search around and look at strangers photos (as long as their accounts are public). Your pictures are meant to be seen as if you are posting to your own personal online photo book. Most people curate their photos to present a very specific image. Snapchat is fleeting and it's only for your friends.

It still seems too far fetched for me and just too much work - unless BG had a willing teenager as an accomplice who was actively and knowingly pretending to be the person Abby and Libby thought he was OR... BG had a teenager who left their phone around, unlocked, he knew how to use the program and BG looked through their friends posts. And then that requires that Abby or Libby to be friends with this teenager, have sent a snap in the last 24 hours that wasn't already opened (and therefor disappeared) and then BG could hightail it over to the location with minimal preparation. This then means that the teenager, whos account it was, can see that the images were opened and no longer can see them for them self. If that happened to me I'd be asking my husband (or who ever was around my phone) who was checking my snapchat.

I don't know, moo.



-SSDGM-

 

[Ursamajr]

So you mean on Feb 13 a Snapchatter's location was obtainable by others and only Since Then there is an option to hide one's location? Just wanting to clarify, Thanks!

Jumping in here - no the feature wasn't even an option and didn't even exist at all at the time.


-SSDGM-

 

[BubbleHopper]

I'm only on pg. 34 of this thread, but someone posted something that made me think he might be an oil field worker. A quick search of oil and gas jobs led me to Huntington and Fishers. Those are a good distance from Delphi but I don't think they are out of the question at all. The main oilfield seems to be east of Indianapolis but spans many counties north and south. I'm not super familiar with how that industry works but it seems ripe for a possibly irregular work pattern. I hope they've gone to that part of the state and flashed this sketch all over those work sites.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

We have a new sketch, a new face seen by a witness but we have no car which was also seen by the witness. That's too bad.

Btw: I'm now (also) thinking of some man who had no sexually interest in the girls but perhaps an excess of hatred on female children/teenage girls. Imagine a husband who hasn't children of his own and his spouse loves to be a foster parent while he hates it. There are around 30 foster girls coming and going into/out of the family during a time span of less than 20 years. The girls cause unrest, trouble, anger, problems,partially real drama, limitations of living standard, financial costs, etc. etc. - and he doesn't agree with such a life over many years. He misses time he could have had spent with his wife as a pair and he misses her undivided attention over many years. - Maybe, IMO, this man unloads his negative feelings somewhere out in parks/forests/trails/lakes where he is roaming around and sometimes meets female children which remind him of the at times very disliked foster children at home.