IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #67

[deedee21]

I've tipped the FBI my thoughts after enhancing what I consider to be the best images I've found. That was on the 28th and I haven't heard back from them. But it was a phone call and I talked to the person answering the tip line. They did take down what I told them in detail along with my name, address, and phone number.

I'm sure that they put the "I can see it in the image" tips at the bottom of the pile. Ideally they want names of people that are similar looking to their suspect images, or of people that that are for one reason or another causing suspicion in the mind of the person calling.

From haunting the forums and YouTube Channels I've discovered that there are a lot of wildly speculative people interested in the case that claim to see things in the images that simply aren't there. I'm sure that LE is exhausted with listening to them to the point where when the real deal does show up. That it could easily be dismissed as just another nervous Nelly with an overactive imagination mixed with a mild case of pareidolia. I did try to explain to them the technical side of teasing the properties of an object out of an image but I don't think the person manning the tip line understood it.

If I don't hear back from them with somebody that wants to discuss what I shared with them in depth. Then I will take a more direct route by contacting one of the Indiana based lines of comm for offering up tips.

In the end they will hear what I have to say and learn what I know. Even if I have to drive up there and give them what for in person.

If the person you spoke to doesnt understand what your talking about then they wont be able to document what you had to say properly. Maybe its better to send an e-mail instead.
I have a question. According to the media, LE turned to NASA. Im assuming it had to do with the photos. Or maybe the media is mistaken. They are known for it. Do you think these stills from a video came from NASA? Im asking because the pics LE released was within a very short time after the girls were found. Can NASA work that quickly?

 

[Bird of Paradise]

Is there a link to that information somewhere? It's tough to determine the distance from any of the stills I have seen.

The point about the distance away was more about the pixels. The further away he was in the video, the smaller the image, and thus, the fewer pixels his image contains.

If, for example, his face is only 30 pixels by 30 pixels, you're not going to be able to refine it with any great detail.

Have you viewed the image thread? I don't have a direct link to that conclusion although Nin will.

If you haven't been to the image thread, it's quite interesting as there is a Verified Image Expert there who gave valuable insight. The thread is closed but you can still read. You may have to wade through a bit of nonsense posts (I mean that in a good way as we kept some things lighthearted). However once on there you can search all of the VE's posts:

Michael.Gartley
In addition to Nin (No it's not) and
Billy Mabou
(sorry if I missed others in the field)

eta here's a link to one of MG's posts

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...erty-German-14-Delphi&p=13351810#post13351810

 

[Shiressleuth]

I've tipped the FBI my thoughts after enhancing what I consider to be the best images I've found. That was on the 28th and I haven't heard back from them. But it was a phone call and I talked to the person answering the tip line. They did take down what I told them in detail along with my name, address, and phone number.

I'm sure that they put the "I can see it in the image" tips at the bottom of the pile. Ideally they want names of people that are similar looking to their suspect images, or of people that that are for one reason or another causing suspicion in the mind of the person calling.

From haunting the forums and YouTube Channels I've discovered that there are a lot of wildly speculative people interested in the case that claim to see things in the images that simply aren't there. I'm sure that LE is exhausted with listening to them to the point where when the real deal does show up. That it could easily be dismissed as just another nervous Nelly with an overactive imagination mixed with a mild case of pareidolia. I did try to explain to them the technical side of teasing the properties of an object out of an image but I don't think the person manning the tip line understood it.

If I don't hear back from them with somebody that wants to discuss what I shared with them in depth. Then I will take a more direct route by contacting one of the Indiana based lines of comm for offering up tips.

In the end they will hear what I have to say and learn what I know. Even if I have to drive up there and give them what for in person.

Welcome Surly, on page 1 of each thread there is a link to our image discussion thread where a lot of work was done with the images. Take a look at that as a lot was done by posters here and the opinions of a verified expert are also on there. See what you think anyway. Re. The tip line, I have sent in tips via the email address and have never had acknowledgments so presume they did not check out.
Eta. Just saw BoP's post about the image thread which states similar. Great minds think alike. :wave:

 

[Shiressleuth]

Is there a link to that information somewhere? It's tough to determine the distance from any of the stills I have seen.

The point about the distance away was more about the pixels. The further away he was in the video, the smaller the image, and thus, the fewer pixels his image contains.

If, for example, his face is only 30 pixels by 30 pixels, you're not going to be able to refine it with any great detail.

Try looking at GH videos linked in page1 of each thread. It was him that worked that out IIRC.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Next thought:
IF the suspect isn't alive any more and he had been married, do you think any wife would call LE to tell that she found "trophies" of perhaps murdered girls or ominous tools in the basement of their family home or in a shed or in a car? No, the wife wouldn't do that, IMO. Unfortunately. ullhair:

So you think BG might be dead? We can hope. Funny you should mention that because today I was just reading the thread about the Virginia baseball game shooter.
Eta love that ullhair: emoticon.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Just a polite reminder to everyone but especially all newbies, page 1 first post of every thread has tons of info and may have answers for many questions and save trawling thru the 66 previous threads in a lot of cases for you all.
:wave: welcome all newbies (and lurkers too of course. :wink: )

 

[Jethro4WS]

My "amateur" comment was directed to the method of the image placement on the ISP website. Was it bold? No it wasn't. It is however factual. The truth can be an unpleasant thing.

Go look at it and you tell me if it's not been considerably widened to fit the container. By a good portion even! Making the suspect look much heavier than he is. This is an unforgivable amateurish mistake. At least get the basics right. It's not like they're selling pizza's on that website. They're looking for a serial killer.

LE has never explained in detail what they did to process the frames from which the images we have came from other than to say they were is cropped from the frames and enlarged. They did not provide information as to how much the image were enlarged nor the algorithm used to do so.

Keep in mind that the original source would be a frame generated from an MP4 video file so they would already be working from a source of lower quality before they did anything to it.

On the ISP website the image they have where BG is turned toward his left (bottom image) has actual dimensions of 1807x2160. It is scaled on that page when viewing it to 466x558. I don't know if all of the different browsers scale images the same way so how it looks may depend on the broswer being used. Viewing it on the website is not showing the image as it really is.

The EXIF properties indicate it was created and saved from Photoshop at the same time (2017-02-21T07:50:55-5:00 e.g. 2:50am ET on Feb 21). There isn't any way of knowing what format the original source was but likely it was created through a Save As or Export operation.

I don't know when it first appeared on the ISP website and thus whether this image is the only version of it. Maybe one of our image experts can weigh in on that as a number of them worked on the images on the early threads and in the Image thread that had been created for this case and may know if an earlier version of the image existed on the ISP site and/or have an earlier version. We have a pretty good number of Photoshop experts that work with images on a professional basis around WS (There are a few GIMP experts around as well).

 

[Jethro4WS]

Is there a link to that information somewhere? It's tough to determine the distance from any of the stills I have seen.

The point about the distance away was more about the pixels. The further away he was in the video, the smaller the image, and thus, the fewer pixels his image contains.

If, for example, his face is only 30 pixels by 30 pixels, you're not going to be able to refine it with any great detail.

The location of where BG is on the bridge was determined by matching the railroad ties and known platform locations on the bridge - so it is known what railroad tie BG is standing on. The distance from the end of the bridge to that tie can then be measured. GH, whose videos are listed on the first page of every thread does crime scene reconstruction for LE - just in case you think this is just amateurs randomly guessing at where things are. GH wasn't the only one refining the position of BG either (or where the photos Libby took on the bridge were taken from). There are a number of experts in many domains that participate at this site which is what makes this site more than just a place to discuss a case.

 

[her]

Depends on the wife, I would whether he was dead or alive.

If there are young children involved, the wife may put them first from the backlash that might destroy them.
I wonder if they could claim the reward money?

 

[szoub]

I am from Indiana too. I lived in West Lafayette going to Purdue at the time of these murders. I know a lot of people from the area and they are very torn up about this, never thinking something like this could have happened in their town. But, that is the thought that everyone has until it happens. There are people like this every where.

First time poster here, but have been interested in this case from day one. I'm from Indiana and take it personally that this thing is sneaking around my home state murdering our children.

I too would be interested in having access to the original stills taken from the video.

My PC is built to do advanced graphics but I can't do much without the originals. Or let me put it this way. I would be able to do a lot more with the originals than the images I'm able to glean from searching online. Going to the ISP's website is a joke. The images they have up of the suspect are so poorly done that it's pathetic. The largest one they have is displayed in a format to fit a container. It's easily about 400 pixels wider than anything else out there and was obviously enhanced and installed on their site by an amateur. Were I or anybody else that does graphics for the private sector to pull that with a paying clients imagery, it would generate a call from said client demanding that it be corrected. One would think that they would take a more serious attitude in trying to give the public what we need to be able to identify this guy.

I've never seen anything (other than war) done by a branch of our government that couldn't be done better by private enterprise.

So... If anybody has, or could direct me to a place online where I could acquire the original suspect images in their largest format I would appreciate it. If not, I'll keep hoping that the ISP sees the error of their ways and puts the full size originals up.

 

[Tealgrove]

I am of the opinion that he is known to someone and for some reason (fear, disbelief, etc.) that person has not come forward.

I am also of the opinion that he is hiding in plain sight.

Someone knows him, suspects him, but can't bring themselves to make the call.

MOO

 

[htiff]

Just thought I'd move this over here, along with the additions that were suggested.

Known Facts

The girls were on the bridge
BG was on the bridge
The girls were dropped off on the north side of the creek/trail
The bodies were found on the north side of the creek
They were found about 50' from the creek south of the cemetery
The girls were dropped off by LG's sister by 1:45 (I'm not sure if the 1:45 time has been confirmed)
DG tried to reach them around 3:00 without any luck
Other people were on the trail and bridge close to that time period
There is a video (and we have stills from it) of the "main" suspect
There is a recording of the suspect's voice
There is a sketch of the suspect which is a composite of information from witnesses
The bodies were found on RL's property
RL is not a suspect
Libby was taking pictures
There was no school that day
The weather that day was seasonally mild
Within walking distance of the crime scene, there is a meat packing plant, a quarry, a recycling station, several homes (some empty, some not), a few roads (from gravel to highways)
Both girls died
The photos and video stills show they were on the south end of the bridge at one point
They crossed the creek twice one way or another
There were some footprints that led to the bodies.
Libby's phone was recovered
The crime scene was taped off
Nothing other than the entrance to the bridge was taped off on the south side of the creek (possibly a small area surrounding the entrance to the bridge)
RLs property, house, outbuildings, white truck were searched
Property across from RLs house where grain bin is located also searched
Creek flow was 70% above normal

One thing that might be worth adding is that there was a search warrant executed in Feb, right after the girls were found, at a home on Bicycle Bridge Road in Delphi, about an hour from the crime scene. No arrests. We don't know whose home it was that was searched, but there was a lead right off, that doesn't seem to have panned out, but time will tell. The warrant was executed by Indiana State Police.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/isp-ser...-with-deaths-of-delphi-teens-no-arrests-made/

 

[minazoe]

https://www.banggood.com/Mens-Cotto...tm_design=43&gclid=CPuDytKPhNYCFQUIaQodJ5ABEQ

check out these hats.

 

[Bird of Paradise]

One thing that might be worth adding is that there was a search warrant executed in Feb, right after the girls were found, at a home on Bicycle Bridge Road in Delphi, about an hour from the crime scene. No arrests. We don't know whose home it was that was searched, but there was a lead right off, that doesn't seem to have panned out, but time will tell. The warrant was executed by Indiana State Police.

http://fox59.com/2017/02/16/isp-ser...-with-deaths-of-delphi-teens-no-arrests-made/

Bicycle Bridge Rd is minutes away, not an hour away.
The owner's name is easily found on a google search. Whether or not it's been announced by LE escapes me at the moment.

eta the part about DG has never been released by LE. fwiw.

 

[htiff]

Bicycle Bridge Rd is minutes away, not an hour away.
The owner's name is easily found on a google search. Whether or not it's been announced by LE escapes me at the moment.

LE only stated that the search was made on the 11000 block of West Bicycle Bridge road. There is more than one home at that spot. I'm not sure how one would know which home exactly, if LE didn't make mention of it. You may be right that the spot is closer to the crime scene than I thought, though.

http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_c2c520d2-f4ac-11e6-9d31-0bfd4dd16b49.html

http://wlfi.us/2017/02/16/police-on-scene-serving-warrant-at-delphi-home/

But regardless, it is a significant event, a fact, that occurred. So it seems worth adding to the list.

 

[Ember123]

I was looking at pictures on FB yesterday that a friend posted of Amish men raising a barn. I noticed that all of them had a leather tool bag on their left hip. It just caught my eye. Every one of them did. Then, I wondered if maybe THAT is why they have not placed on his head the real hat that he was wearing (?) Perhaps it was an Amish hat that he'd bent down the sides or it was simply floppy. Several of the men in the barn raising had floppy type of hats on their heads. There are Amish and German Baptist who live in Carroll County. I have friends in our county who have had Amish come and raise a barn for them (we have no Amish in our county), so they do travel. My neighbor actually hired Amish to bring down a humongous tree. I admire the Amish/GB and hope that I am far off, but it is worth a thought. jmo

Hi RMom- Your remarks regarding Amish/G.Baptists is interesting because AFAIK they don't have cars (hitchhiker), they don'the use zippers (BG's jacket front opening gaps) and could the kit on BG's R hip be THIS (see attached image ) pulled toward his R front so other is partly hidden behind him on his L side?

 

[Bird of Paradise]

LE only stated that the search was made on the 11000 block of West Bicycle Bridge road. There is more than one home at that spot. I'm not sure how one would know which home exactly, if LE didn't make mention of it. You may be right that the spot is closer to the crime scene than I thought, though.

http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_c2c520d2-f4ac-11e6-9d31-0bfd4dd16b49.html

http://wlfi.us/2017/02/16/police-on-scene-serving-warrant-at-delphi-home/

But regardless, it is a significant event, a fact, that occurred. So it seems worth adding to the list.

I agree it should be added. Was clarifying distance.
I may be mistaken but I seem to recall a news article that mentioned the number of the house.
May not be released by LE and I wasn't suggesting the number or owner name should be added.
Just that most of us know who it is. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[htiff]

Hi RMom- Your remarks regarding Amish/G.Baptists is interesting because AFAIK they don't have cars (hitchhiker), they don'the use zippers (BG's jacket front opening gaps) and could the kit on BG's R hip be THIS (see attached image ) pulled toward his R front so other is partly hidden behind him on his L side?

Amish wear long beards, as a general rule. Unless they aren't married, but then they are clean shaven. And they almost always wear a wide brimmed hat and black coat.

 

[htiff]

I agree it should be added. Was clarifying distance.
I may be mistaken but I seem to recall a news article that mentioned the number of the house.
May not be released by LE and I wasn't suggesting the number or owner name should be added.
Just that most of us know who it is. Sorry for the confusion.

I know who you think it might be, and this comes from that VERY unreliable blog. And probably a sloppy google search as well. There isn't only one home on the 11000 block of Bicycle Bridge Road, and the home everyone thinks it isn't even on the main road. LE made a point of not revealing this. We only know the general vicinity.

 

[Shiressleuth]

LE only stated that the search was made on the 11000 block of West Bicycle Bridge road. There is more than one home at that spot. I'm not sure how one would know which home exactly, if LE didn't make mention of it. You may be right that the spot is closer to the crime scene than I thought, though.

http://www.pharostribune.com/news/local_news/article_c2c520d2-f4ac-11e6-9d31-0bfd4dd16b49.html

http://wlfi.us/2017/02/16/police-on-scene-serving-warrant-at-delphi-home/

But regardless, it is a significant event, a fact, that occurred. So it seems worth adding to the list.

Indeed :
70 subpoennas and warrants
(Includes homes in BBR, Peru, Lebanon, Kokomo)
20 unrelated arrests from those warrants
24,000 tips
Over 600 interviews

Probably other stuff as well.