IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #8

[Robert Lindsay]

This guy wasn't even worried enough about libbys cell phone to do something with it. So how could she of been the focus.

Sure. Abbie was the target. Libby was just in the way and eliminated rather quickly. Abbie stuck around til next day.

I have no way of proving this, but I really believe that Abbie was the target and Libby was just in the way.

MOO, etc.

 

[shrekspeare]

That only one girl was the target. I may have misinterpreted the post. I was just not sure why a person could come to the conclusion that only one girl was the target. Excuse me if I misunderstood..

I would guess because killing two girls at the same time is exponentially different than just killing one. Even for seasoned killers, I would argue that killing two girls on a moderately popular trail, is a huge risk. I think there are the two possibilities: either this is a case of catfish-but if so, why not just leave when you see two girls instead of one? Or, this is someone who has killed before, but might not have scoped out these specific girls. He might have been waiting for a victim, and this opportunity presented itself. The only other thing that would make sense would be a failed abduction, but I think as we find out more, we'll see that likely wasn't the case.

 

[rpgman]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1702/22/ptab.01.html

Interesting...


CASAREZ: I understand. Is it -- is it continuous? Is it stop and start? Could you obviously tell there was an issue?

SLOCUM: Well, obviously, there`s the issue if Liberty turned on the video portion of her phone, and we can tell that maybe there was a problem in

that video. But as far as specific and more detail, that`s something we cannot get into at this moment in our investigation.

CASAREZ: Now, I know that you had also gone into today about whether this was someone that they were intending to meet or a stranger crime or someone

that knew the girls. But it appeared as though you were leaning upon a chance encounter was unlikely, but that they knew -- that maybe he knew

that those girls would be there.

SLOCUM: Well, we`re not quite sure if it was a chance encounter or -- evidence indicates at this time that we don`t have any leading us to they

were meeting. We believe it was two teenage girls going out on a nice day and enjoying a beautiful trail.


But we`re still trying to verify all our facts. We`re almost nine days into our investigation, which seems like a very long time, but in the

scheme of things, it`s pretty short, and we`re still trying to analyze the information and determine what actually occurred in their murders.

 

[liltexans]

I can't read Unsub's voice at all from anything other than the tape. If I could do that, maybe I could turn him in as a tip. I would say though that looking at LE photos and my readings of his photos, that voice could very well go along with that man.

However, I doubt if he sounds this mean all the time. Most of the time he probably sounds pretty normal or even nice. But I have no idea because I haven't heard his voice really.

Personally I feel that Unsub is attempting to disguise his voice in this audio. He sounds really mean because he is in his killer mode, and he's mean as a snake when he's like that. I think he gets off on tormenting his victims, terrifying them, terrorizing them, etc. Sexual sadist. I do not think he tortures though. LE might have released that info. MOO the funerals were both open casket and torture wounds would be hard to cover up. So no torture in this case.

Ever seen how a cat plays with its prey before he kills it? I think this guy likes to do that too. Messed up stuff all right. He sometimes keeps his victims alive for hours just to torment them. Up to nine hours at a time.

MOO, etc.

It's contradictory to call someone a sexual sadist and then to say you don't think he tortured the girls. Maybe you and I have different definitions of sexual sadism and torture. These were children. I think it goes without saying that they were terrorized and tortured. They were brutally murdered by a lunatic.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OT: For those who may have missed it the GBI is having a PC at 3pm EST concerning the Tara Grinstead case who went missing in 2005. Highly unusual for them to give PCs on such quick notice.

http://www.walb.com/story/34584683/gbi-to-hold-press-conference-on-tara-grinstead-case

 

[JanetElaine]

Spent a bunch of time trying to get more detail out of his face. Probably not possible, and I dont know what I'm doing. Here's what I ended up with though.

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ImMimis said:
Today 11:23 AM
Took me the longest time to NOT see a scared monkey in this pic. But what I also think I see....is the character "The Punisher" from Marvel comics on that guy's shirt. There are different versions of course but I found one online that looks exact..just not sure how to post pic here.

this is link to The Punisher

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...yMFZOvrOFOg_M:&tbnh=186&tbnw=186&vet=1&w=1080

Why was this linked if you don't mind me asking?

If the quotes work out, here's the relevancy of those posts.

 

[jbeth]

JMO but to me, it looks like he has a jacket full of God knows what. That doesn't scream passerby/homeless/hitchhiker - that says, I'm planning this, gonna take along (whatever he has in his bulging jacket), do (whatever activities) and go home (whether it be 5 or 50 miles away).

Also, it's very surprising that this has not been completely plastered on the news. I'm in PA, and while it's not too close, we're off of major roads that connect to Indiana.

 

[jhny]

Why was this linked if you don't mind me asking?

A few posts back -- an enlarged / enhanced photo of BG - it was thought that his t-shirt had this image on BG's T-shirt.

 

[Imvp2]

IMO this is perhaps why many of these crimes go unsolved. Its why sex workers and drug addicts are the most targeted. Even if these teen girls had some issues it doesn't mean they ran away it doesn't mean they couldn't have been met with foul play. In fact when you look at Abby and Libby (and I mean this in NO disrespect) but Abby came from a single mom family and Libby was being raised by her grandparents. Those two should have been considered missing but the police did not consider them in danger until the next day. Wonder if they had come from different families if they police would have felt different. JMO

Agree. 34 miles it's too close too similar in areas

 

[SheRuns]

Quickly checking in so I don't gobble up my mobile data. My internet is broken Underground fault.

Thinking of starting a support group 'Sleuthers Anonymous' Having serious withdrawal and waves of anxiety

Not a happy skibs!

Praying to the technology gods.

Been wondering where you were. Missing your insight! Hope it gets fixed soon.

 

[Suglo]

Nope. I don't have that.

<modsnip>

On Tapatalk just press down on the post. It will highlight it and several options will appear above or below. On the more options tab it will open a new window that allows you to report.

 

[SJCaseFollower]

I've entertained that possibility....but in other crimes I've followed, families have been allowed to use the DOD as the date the body was discovered, and their hope died.

Can a coroner narrow it down that precisely??

So you are suggesting (by reading your other posts), that Libby was killed first, and Abby was taken to Location B, where she was "used".....which my interpretation of the word "used" would mean sexually assaulted. Then he killed Abby, and dropped her body off by her friend Libby's.

I've considered this....but where would he take Abby?? Where do you suppose the perp took Abby?? You have suggested that he is not local, but knows some locals.

 

[shrekspeare]

IMO this is perhaps why many of these crimes go unsolved. Its why sex workers and drug addicts are the most targeted. Even if these teen girls had some issues it doesn't mean they ran away it doesn't mean they couldn't have been met with foul play. In fact when you look at Abby and Libby (and I mean this in NO disrespect) but Abby came from a single mom family and Libby was being raised by her grandparents. Those two should have been considered missing but the police did not consider them in danger until the next day. Wonder if they had come from different families if they police would have felt different. JMO

I completely agree. But at the same time, at the point of disappearance or abduction, they have nothing that points to foul play so I would argue that they can't-and that it would be irresponsible, for them to call it such. KWIM? LE has no way of knowing what's happened to these girls after they possibly ran-away. So they can't say until evidence comes up.

 

[tinan83]

http://www.wlwt.com/article/mystery-surrounds-trenton-teens-disappearance/8955650

https://www.facebook.com/MissingPie...175764455263/1640185946287577/?type=3&theater


Would someone with an open mind who know a lot about this case please look at these two links and tell me their opinions. I think its very possible they were before Abby and Liberty. I believe they look very similar to Abby, IMO Abby was the target.

I appreciate others opinions, this case has captured my attention and I have been doing a lot of searching through the internet trying to put the puzzle together as best as we can with the limited info we have gotten.

Both of these cases are near active railroads, railroads that head right for Delphi, the go in date order. If no one else sees what I am seeing thats okay I just would love someone elses input.

I too thought the same thing about Breanne. This is the first I am hearing about Loretta, which is a terrible shame.

IMO, I found a correlation right away. I hope we are totally incorrect. There is a thread for Breanne but there's not much on there to report. Here's the link.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?329785-IN-Breanne-Voiles-14-Kokomo-4-February-2017

 

[madduck74]

ImMimis said:
Today 11:23 AM
Took me the longest time to NOT see a scared monkey in this pic. But what I also think I see....is the character "The Punisher" from Marvel comics on that guy's shirt. There are different versions of course but I found one online that looks exact..just not sure how to post pic here.

Im starting to wonder if this pic I posted, looks different on other peoples screens. Is a obvious mans face with a large nose, a mustache and probably a gottie on my screen. Maybe its the brightness or contrast.

Punisher comment is interesting. I've been trying to figure out what that is.



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[TeaTime]

In my personal experience, the obits are written and then submitted to the the funeral home which then submits it to the newspaper and the dates of birth/death are taken from the death certificate. At least here, the funeral directors do not take your 'opinion' on the date of death, it has something to do with printing the truth and only official sources are used and the newspapers do not print obituaries from a non-official or without a certified death certificate being submitted with the obit.

Smoker. Not necessarily. I know a lot of men in their early '40's with raspy voices who have never smoked a day in their lives.

I googgled and used map quest to try to find a map of what roads lead to/from that hiking trail to no avail. I am trying to find spots where BG could have entered with a vehicle or parked to walk or where the girls could have stopped near the trail for a snack or whatever. Not sure of the official name of the park and it seems Bicycle Rd. is pretty far away from where I think the park is located. Any help here? Thanks.

 

[BFan60]

I disagree. I think Libby was the target, bc Libby had the social media savvy. If thy were meeting someone, it was probably Libby who was arranging it. Maybe unsub was expecting to meet Libby only for some unsavory purpose and freaked when he saw that Abby was there, too. I think Abby was simply tagging along. MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's contradictory to call someone a sexual sadist and then to say you don't think he tortured the girls. Maybe you and I have different definitions of sexual sadism and torture. These were children. I think it goes without saying that they were terrorized and tortured. They were brutally murdered by a lunatic.

ITA

The truth is when children this age are abducted, raped, and murdered most of the time they are dead within an hour and half of being taken. I imagine these two victims were too.

 

[kirkassoc]

Listened to your excellent quiet version several times then switched to the original. Thank you!

The Original

http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

I believe Libby asked him a question to get his voice on record...such as, Libby: "Where are you taking us?" His response, "Down the hill." (There's no way the LE could play her voice at this point. Too heartbreaking to hear, IMHO)

 

[Tillicum]

Yeah it's hard to tell!! Whatever his weird t-shirt is, it looks funky!!
I think his hand is in his jacket pocket though, not his jeans, that's the only reason I mentioned it! Cus the t-shirt is under the jacket. I think he might just have awkward arms..

Ooohhh, don't worry, I didn't mean you specifically just generally!! It's natural for people to just stare at the photos because we all want to find that tiny thing that can help haha

I think it's possible he's holding something in his hand and has his t-shirt pulled down around it to hide it.