http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jYBv8sERl7Wf-qlhuh0f2KAN8ihQD9CCM2JG1
I wonder why he was pulled from school? He had good grades.
I wonder why he was pulled from school? He had good grades.
GUILTY IN - Conner Conley, 10, strangled to death, Rising Sun, 28 Nov 2009 *brother arrested*
- Thread starter mysteriew
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"He was also withdrawn from school 12 days before he allegedly killed his brother for cutting himself."
From the following article:
http://www.kypost.com/content/wcpos...-Year-Old-Brother/cJPUpQKMKkqaGnjw45VdAw.cspx
Texas Mist
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He *does* sound a lot like Alyssa Bustamante.
I feel so sad for the parents & everyone else who knew the boys....what a tragic loss.
DeepThinker
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My immediate reaction, as well. And what he did with his brother's body before placing in the trunk of the car...it's too horrific for words. :frown:
I would like to know more about his childhood history as well. The one child I know, if you know the child, it's easy to see something is "off". I am amazed at the things some children with Conduct Disorder can pull off. I hope there is a professional, complete psych exam done on this young man.
I'm really really sorry to sound like a broken record but Andrew must be sick--very very sick. The flat affect, no remorse, giddiness upon seeing his girlfriend--sick.
"Police say there were other signs of destructive behavior by Andrew. He apparently tried to kill his father, who awoke to his son standing over him with a knife Sunday evening. He was also withdrawn from school 12 days before he allegedly killed his brother for cutting himself."
What's wrong with this paragraph? This timeframe is short--12 days. If the family was used to this type of behavior with Andrew, I would think knives would be locked. If he was known to have a cutting problem, he would not have "withdrawn" from school. He would have been hospitalized or referred to intensive therapy. He would have had a psych eval. Most schools pull kids "in" rather than allow them to withdraw when there's something crazy going on. The problem is that two huge red flags were not taken seriously enough. I want to know why the police were not called after the knife incident. Why did the school not insist this kid got help with the cutting. In this day and age, most schools are bending over backwards to make sure at-risk kids get what they need. No principal wants a Columbine on his/her hands.
Has anyone read anything about Andrew's past--reports from friends, teachers, family?
What kind of a community is this? Is it close knit where people notice things and remember things? What are people in the neighborhood saying? Pay attention as I think that's where we'll find the answer.
Please don't buy the "evil child" label without really examining this case. That's the easy way out. In primitive societies, "evil children" (those with mental illness, lazy eyes, twisted limbs, or epilepsy) would be stoned or left on the mountain to freeze. We are not (contrary to current events), primitive. IMO, the prosecutor is being overly provocative and thus could be tainting his case.
Personally, I think we're looking at the onset of schizophrenia or a case of a child who has had a mental illness for years and gone untreated. If his family is caring and alert, I can't imagine that they would have let an unstable child have access to the knives or watch the baby brother. Notice too that the girlfriend is appalled. That tells me that this is not the boy she loved.
I'm NOT saying that this boy should walk free but we have to wait and see what the doctors and specialists tell us about these behaviors.
How many people on here have teens, or live near teens, or ride the bus with teens? Don't you want to understand this so you don't wake up with a knife being held over your head? Trust me, we need to understand this so we can work to prevent it from happening again. We haven't heard the whole story.
"Police say there were other signs of destructive behavior by Andrew. He apparently tried to kill his father, who awoke to his son standing over him with a knife Sunday evening. He was also withdrawn from school 12 days before he allegedly killed his brother for cutting himself."
What's wrong with this paragraph? This timeframe is short--12 days. If the family was used to this type of behavior with Andrew, I would think knives would be locked. If he was known to have a cutting problem, he would not have "withdrawn" from school. He would have been hospitalized or referred to intensive therapy. He would have had a psych eval. Most schools pull kids "in" rather than allow them to withdraw when there's something crazy going on. The problem is that two huge red flags were not taken seriously enough. I want to know why the police were not called after the knife incident. Why did the school not insist this kid got help with the cutting. In this day and age, most schools are bending over backwards to make sure at-risk kids get what they need. No principal wants a Columbine on his/her hands.
Has anyone read anything about Andrew's past--reports from friends, teachers, family?
What kind of a community is this? Is it close knit where people notice things and remember things? What are people in the neighborhood saying? Pay attention as I think that's where we'll find the answer.
Please don't buy the "evil child" label without really examining this case. That's the easy way out. In primitive societies, "evil children" (those with mental illness, lazy eyes, twisted limbs, or epilepsy) would be stoned or left on the mountain to freeze. We are not (contrary to current events), primitive. IMO, the prosecutor is being overly provocative and thus could be tainting his case.
Personally, I think we're looking at the onset of schizophrenia or a case of a child who has had a mental illness for years and gone untreated. If his family is caring and alert, I can't imagine that they would have let an unstable child have access to the knives or watch the baby brother. Notice too that the girlfriend is appalled. That tells me that this is not the boy she loved.
I'm NOT saying that this boy should walk free but we have to wait and see what the doctors and specialists tell us about these behaviors.
How many people on here have teens, or live near teens, or ride the bus with teens? Don't you want to understand this so you don't wake up with a knife being held over your head? Trust me, we need to understand this so we can work to prevent it from happening again. We haven't heard the whole story.
As I was writing my post above, I got a call. One of my sons was spotted down at the bottom of our street. He looked as if he was considering coming up the hill to my house. He's an adult now but has many disabilities. He's not the young man I spoke above with Conduct Disorder. This son has developmental disabilities, a very low IQ, steals frequently, and has a raging *advertiser censored* addiction. He's also charming, kind, polite, and extremely hard-working. He's never assaulted me but he has threatened me. He knows how disabled I am now so I always feel a little vulnerable around him, especially when I'm alone.
So you know what I did? Just what every other loving mother would do with a "special" kid like this. I made sure all the doors were locked and called my husband to come home. I don't think E would hurt me but I don't totally trust him. I want a number of people to be aware that he's in the neighborhood.
My point? I know my son. I love him but I put nothing past him. I'm careful. I don't think Andrew's parents saw this coming.
So you know what I did? Just what every other loving mother would do with a "special" kid like this. I made sure all the doors were locked and called my husband to come home. I don't think E would hurt me but I don't totally trust him. I want a number of people to be aware that he's in the neighborhood.
My point? I know my son. I love him but I put nothing past him. I'm careful. I don't think Andrew's parents saw this coming.
mysteriew
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I'm afraid I pretty much agree with you to an exent and with a half measure. He identified with the character "Dexter". I watched that show and didn't care for it. But from what I remember Dexter would see people he didn't like and would fantasize killing them. He had trouble connecting with people emotionally, though he did seem to try. He was emotionally disconnected from reality. Still Dexter managed to conform to society and only deviated when he felt the the person was 'bad'. To me this boy is saying this is how he felt. Except maybe for the last part. Still this is the boy diagnosing himself.
I don't know the kid of course by in thinking of schizophrenia you expect to see more disorganization of thought, but this kid was an honor roll student. He also carried out the crime then attempted to cover it up before confessing. There is no mention hearing voices or delusions of grandeur. He identified with Dexter, but didn't claim to be Dexter. So many things point away from schizophrenia. With sociopathy, this kid went to police and confessed. Something that a sociopath wouldn't do. A sociopath might tell himself that what he did was a 'mistake' but he still wouldn't usually confess. He would attempt to blame the victim for his 'mistake.' Then there was the incident of standing over his father with a knife. He thought it, but didn't do it. What held him back? So this puzzles me about calling him a sociopath.
But deep depression will cause an emotional distancing, and can deepen into a type of psychosis. People with a deep depression have a flat effect. Could cause the fantasizing of killing, ie removing the person who irritates him. And no one can irritate a person like a sibling can. There is also the whole jealousy issues to consider with siblings. And this also explains the cutting. Cutting btw is not considered a mental illness, it is considered an emotional issue. Kids cut to release some stress they are feeling. So a kid with deep depression, under stress and a kid brother to deal with, home alone. I'm more or less thinking this might be a factor in what happened.
I do wonder if when they withdrew him from school due to the cutting, did they also start him with counseling, and was he put on any meds at that time?
mysteriew
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Since the first 'symptom' that we know of is the cutting, I thought it would be interesting to find out more about it.
snip...People who "self-injure" are not usually suicidal. They do however, intentionally inflict injuries upon themselves, usually in response to stress or trauma. Their injuries may vary from minor cuts that heal quickly to very serious wounds that leave permanent scars. This is also known as "Deliberate Self-Harm Syndrome".
Cutting seems to be the most common type of self-injury. "Cutters" often use razors, utility knives, scissors, needles, broken glass, or whatever they find to make repetitive slices on their arms, legs or other body parts. Some people burn themselves with cigarettes or lighters, others pull out their own hair. Many people who self-injure say they do it because they normally feel "numb" and cutting helps them to "feel alive." Others talk about the "sense of control" they may get from self-injury. This may be the first time or thing that they have felt a sense of control in their lives. Most agree that incidents of self-injury are triggered by stress and anxiety.
http://www.essortment.com/articles/self-injury_100006.htm
Beneath the scars and bruises of every cutter, lies a very dark and hidden secret. For some, it may be the sexual abuse they went through as a child. For another, it could be how her drunken father beat her and her mother every night. And even for others, the secret could be as simple as not feeling loved. But every single one of them has the same problem-the inability to verbalize their emotions. It is more than likely a lack of coping skills that causes this self-injurious behavior. The cutter is raised in a very negative, or perhaps even an overly positive, environment.
As a child, they grow up without learning methods of dealing with frustrating or painful emotions. Shy children may also have this problem. To the parents, they may appear successful, happy and positive. However, they may truly be very quiet, socially rejected loners who feel no outlet to a constant emptiness within. At the other end of the scale, growing up in a violent home with abuse, neglect, rejection and other forms of pain, no proper coping tools are developed here, either. The cutter is introduced to violence, drugs/alcohol, sex, and other destructive behaviors. These become their only known ways of coping. As they mature, they often will become drug abusers, alcoholics and may abuse spouses, or their own children, also.
However, if the pain remains inside, and the victim feels they must remain very secretive, they could turn to self-abuse. Interestingly enough, cutting is not advertised like drugs and sex, nor is it as "socially-acceptable" as eating disorders. More often than not, it is "discovered" by accident or as an impulsive and almost instinctive response to some form of hurtful stimuli. In one example, a girl got into a fight with her mother and went upstairs to take a shower. While she was shaving her legs, she suddenly sliced her wrists with her shaving razor and as the blood started to trickle out, she discovered a new kind of relief; thus began her 13 years of habitual self-mutilation.
http://eqi.org/cutting2.htm
snip...People who "self-injure" are not usually suicidal. They do however, intentionally inflict injuries upon themselves, usually in response to stress or trauma. Their injuries may vary from minor cuts that heal quickly to very serious wounds that leave permanent scars. This is also known as "Deliberate Self-Harm Syndrome".
Cutting seems to be the most common type of self-injury. "Cutters" often use razors, utility knives, scissors, needles, broken glass, or whatever they find to make repetitive slices on their arms, legs or other body parts. Some people burn themselves with cigarettes or lighters, others pull out their own hair. Many people who self-injure say they do it because they normally feel "numb" and cutting helps them to "feel alive." Others talk about the "sense of control" they may get from self-injury. This may be the first time or thing that they have felt a sense of control in their lives. Most agree that incidents of self-injury are triggered by stress and anxiety.
http://www.essortment.com/articles/self-injury_100006.htm
Beneath the scars and bruises of every cutter, lies a very dark and hidden secret. For some, it may be the sexual abuse they went through as a child. For another, it could be how her drunken father beat her and her mother every night. And even for others, the secret could be as simple as not feeling loved. But every single one of them has the same problem-the inability to verbalize their emotions. It is more than likely a lack of coping skills that causes this self-injurious behavior. The cutter is raised in a very negative, or perhaps even an overly positive, environment.
As a child, they grow up without learning methods of dealing with frustrating or painful emotions. Shy children may also have this problem. To the parents, they may appear successful, happy and positive. However, they may truly be very quiet, socially rejected loners who feel no outlet to a constant emptiness within. At the other end of the scale, growing up in a violent home with abuse, neglect, rejection and other forms of pain, no proper coping tools are developed here, either. The cutter is introduced to violence, drugs/alcohol, sex, and other destructive behaviors. These become their only known ways of coping. As they mature, they often will become drug abusers, alcoholics and may abuse spouses, or their own children, also.
However, if the pain remains inside, and the victim feels they must remain very secretive, they could turn to self-abuse. Interestingly enough, cutting is not advertised like drugs and sex, nor is it as "socially-acceptable" as eating disorders. More often than not, it is "discovered" by accident or as an impulsive and almost instinctive response to some form of hurtful stimuli. In one example, a girl got into a fight with her mother and went upstairs to take a shower. While she was shaving her legs, she suddenly sliced her wrists with her shaving razor and as the blood started to trickle out, she discovered a new kind of relief; thus began her 13 years of habitual self-mutilation.
http://eqi.org/cutting2.htm
Winnts
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Lock him up and throw away the key, I am sick after reading the full details:
The two brothers were wrestling while their parents were at work. Conley put Conner in a headlock, causing the younger boy to pass out and fall to the floor. Conley dragged Conner to kitchen, put on a pair of gloves and choked the boy for about 20 minutes until he noticed blood flowing from Conner's nose and mouth. Conley put a plastic bag over his brother's head, secured it with black electrical tape, and dragged the body by its feet down steps to the basement and then from the home to his car. Conley struck Conner's head on the ground several times before putting the body in the trunk of the car.
With the body still in the trunk, Conley drove to his girlfriend's house and gave her a sweetheart ring.
http://news.aol.com/article/accused-strangler-andrew-conley-says-he/800325The
The two brothers were wrestling while their parents were at work. Conley put Conner in a headlock, causing the younger boy to pass out and fall to the floor. Conley dragged Conner to kitchen, put on a pair of gloves and choked the boy for about 20 minutes until he noticed blood flowing from Conner's nose and mouth. Conley put a plastic bag over his brother's head, secured it with black electrical tape, and dragged the body by its feet down steps to the basement and then from the home to his car. Conley struck Conner's head on the ground several times before putting the body in the trunk of the car.
With the body still in the trunk, Conley drove to his girlfriend's house and gave her a sweetheart ring.
http://news.aol.com/article/accused-strangler-andrew-conley-says-he/800325The
chicagofa13
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I probably sound like a real meanie, but I think a lot of these kids are just EVIL. Sociopaths, psychopaths, whatever you want to call them. I am not going to buy into the "illness du jour", pardon my French. Not everyone needs a pill and a hug to fix them. Some of them need to be locked away. Forever. For their own good and mainly, for OURS. OTOH, since I am so mean, it might surprise all of you that I am pretty much anti-DP. I think too many mistakes are made and we have killed too many innocent people. But I am 100 percent LWOP. And LWOP means LWOP. I don't care if you are under 18. I have no issues locking up a psycho child.
I am relieved to hear the parents stayed away from his hearing and were at the viewing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34279295/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
His parents were at a viewing for his brother Conner Conley's body and did not attend the hearing.
I am relieved to hear the parents stayed away from his hearing and were at the viewing.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34279295/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/
His parents were at a viewing for his brother Conner Conley's body and did not attend the hearing.
Lovejac
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Missizzy, from what I read from the articles, the knife incident with his father happened in the early morning hours AFTER he killed his brother.
Also, he picked up his brother from his aunt and uncles house, and told his parents that Conner decided to spend the night with his grandmother, that's why they were unaware he was "missing"
I want to find out WHO knew about the cutting incident AND that he had withdrawn from school. Did the parents tell the aunts and uncles and grandmother? Why was no one concerned that he picked up his brother from his aunt and uncles? Was this something he had done before? I really need ALOT more information about this. I have so many questions!
Also, he picked up his brother from his aunt and uncles house, and told his parents that Conner decided to spend the night with his grandmother, that's why they were unaware he was "missing"
I want to find out WHO knew about the cutting incident AND that he had withdrawn from school. Did the parents tell the aunts and uncles and grandmother? Why was no one concerned that he picked up his brother from his aunt and uncles? Was this something he had done before? I really need ALOT more information about this. I have so many questions!
Lovejac
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I just found out the answer to one of my questions from your article.
The parents had pulled Andrew Conley out of Rising Sun High School on Nov. 16 12 days before prosecutors said he strangled his younger brother, said Stephen Patz, the superintendent of Rising Sun-Ohio County Community Schools.
Patz declined to state the reasons for the withdrawal, but said both Conley brothers were decent students
I want to know why he was withdrawn by his parents? Don't you have to give a reason for withdrawing to the school?
chicagofa13
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I thought I read somewhere else the reason was cutting? I assume cutting himself, not cutting class.
ETA: Found it, post 42:
Police say there were other signs of destructive behavior by Andrew. He apparently tried to kill his father, who awoke to his son standing over him with a knife Sunday evening. He was also withdrawn from school 12 days before he allegedly killed his brother for cutting himself.
http://www.kypost.com/content/wcpos...-Year-Old-Brother/cJPUpQKMKkqaGnjw45VdAw.cspx
Lovejac
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I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why would his parents withdraw him from school because he was cutting himself? What I mean to say is if my child started cutting themselves I would probably go to school and try to get him in with one of the school counselors and then seek some other professional help. I'm just wondering what good withdrawing Andrew from school would be. I would be worried that he would have more free time on his hands to cut himself. Am I making any sense???:crazy:
chicagofa13
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Yes, that makes sense. I guess we won't find out unless they choose to speak about it. Or at trial, or maybe never??
Missizzy, I just want to thank you for your thoughtful posts on this subject. I read the article you linked to, and I thought it was very balanced. I've posted previously on a relative I have with a serious mental illness. I also was, some time ago, in a relationship with someone who was diagnosed as bipolar. As thing went on, it became pretty clear that he was, in fact, schizophrenic, and getting sicker. For people who haven't loved someone with an illness like that, it's really hard to describe--seeing them decline, being in denial, coming to acceptance. I ended the relationship, and later felt the need to seek a restraining order. Almost 10 years later, he was scheduled to be released later this month from the local state psychiatric facility, where he has been on an NGI commitment after stabbing someone--something that, as frightened as I was at times, I never saw coming. I was greatly relieved to recently find out that the county is stepping in with a civil commitment to keep him institutionalized, as he is still very, very ill.
What the facts are in this case remains to be seen. However, given the description of this boy's (yes, a 17-year-old is a boy) demeanor, and the few facts we know, a serious mental illness is the first thing that jumps to mind for me. Not to be disrespectful to other opinions, but it frustrates me when people assume that a mental illness is an excuse, or a 'get-out-of-jail-free' card. Being found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect (the terminology in my state) is no free pass. I've met with folks in the state psychiatric hospital, as well as many other psychiatric units, for reasons related to my previous job. It's no picnic to be in a locked unit, and people are generally there for a real, and a sad, reason. Unless you've known someone with a severe mental illness, and known them well, it's very hard to picture the devastation that it can wreak on a person, and on their thought process.
What the facts are in this case remains to be seen. However, given the description of this boy's (yes, a 17-year-old is a boy) demeanor, and the few facts we know, a serious mental illness is the first thing that jumps to mind for me. Not to be disrespectful to other opinions, but it frustrates me when people assume that a mental illness is an excuse, or a 'get-out-of-jail-free' card. Being found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect (the terminology in my state) is no free pass. I've met with folks in the state psychiatric hospital, as well as many other psychiatric units, for reasons related to my previous job. It's no picnic to be in a locked unit, and people are generally there for a real, and a sad, reason. Unless you've known someone with a severe mental illness, and known them well, it's very hard to picture the devastation that it can wreak on a person, and on their thought process.
Lovejac
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Another article, but not much more information.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091205/ap_on_re_us/us_indiana_boy_strangled
A few blocks away, the boys' parents and relatives greeted a steady stream of friends and well-wishers at the Markland Funeral Home who came to a viewing of Connor's body. The fifth-grader was dressed in a dark suit and lay in an open casket.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091205/ap_on_re_us/us_indiana_boy_strangled
A few blocks away, the boys' parents and relatives greeted a steady stream of friends and well-wishers at the Markland Funeral Home who came to a viewing of Connor's body. The fifth-grader was dressed in a dark suit and lay in an open casket.