IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[sloane7777]

I recall you saying this before. Somewhere I saw /read that he tried this on another floor but was stopped.

WOW! that would be the prosecutors dream, if that's true no wonder they are going so hard , its just sounding to me he was trying to rid himself of her .

 

[al66pine]

How Many RC Pax Have Not Dropped Out Windows?

For my own curiosity, I decided to look back at both Freedom and Voyager class ships, how long they've been sailing and ship capacity....

Freedom Class

• 
  
• Freedom of the Seas, in service for 14 years, average 3600***** pax per week X 52 weeks = 2,620,800 total passengers
  

@JulieBEMT bbm sbm Excellent point and research.
There may be even more. Seems legit to add crew to the ^ figures, as they can and do fall overboard also (but not thru windows). For ex Fr/Seas, can add ***** 1300 crew to your calculations. And crew for other ships too? Well > 22.5 million.

------------------------------------------------------------
"MS Freedom of the Seas.... can accommodate 3,634 passengers and 1,300 crew on fifteen passenger decks...." MS Freedom of the Seas - Wikipedia

 

[CherylE]

The go fund me campaigns while doing expensive cruises hits a personal hot button for me. My brother in laws family does this - they have good jobs and nicer everything than we do and go on cruises often and wonderful family vacations that we can’t afford but turn around and send us links to go fund me things for kids trip for sports. They also flat out buy their kids nice cars when they turn 16 - we aren’t in a position to do anything big that and or kids have to work part time jobs to earn $ for their own trips and beater 1st cars and we certainly can’t sfford a cruise even the 2 of us much less with all our kids . It leaves a bad taste to see them have so much more and send us fundraising links!

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

I'm scouring the PR news in translation mode to see if I can find early reports with witness statements.

I found this, so we know they have the names and contact info for the crew and passengers who were in the area and know what they saw:

Part of the cruise ship's crew, as well as the passengers, were transferred to an area away from the incident, which concluded the investigation of the painful scene.

Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I haven't finished reading all of the posts, so I apologize if this has been covered already, we are going on a RC cruise in March (we leave in 30 days but who is counting ) leaving out of Galveston. I looked at some leaving out of San Juan but the flights to get there were outrageously priced. We live in Nebraska, so to find any cheap flight anywhere is next to impossible, but some of the flights were more than double what we paid for the cruise itself. I even started looking at flights out of Kansas City.

We got a REALLY good deal on the cruise itself - kids sail free and 60% off the second guest, so our 7 night cruise was less than $1,500 for an ocean view room.

ETA: that’s for our family of 4. 2 adults and 2 kids.

Congratulations! And Bon Voyage!

Cruising in the middle of winter price wise is way different than mid summer. But cruisers here could speak to the costs. And Galveston is in Texas, not a territory. So not familiar with taxes, embarkation fees, etc. charged by the Port Authority in Galveston. As for flights? Houston area has two major airports. So your huff flights could be routed to a cheaper airport. All in all, you snagged a GREAT deal. But somehow, I doubt this family cared about costs.

 

[mheido67]

Back when the video was first leaked, we talked about the guy who had been standing in front of the open window and we commented that it appeared that SA was waiting for him to move from that spot. As we stated at the time, there is a wall of windows, so why would he need to wait for that spot to open up to do what he did?

He knew the window was open.

The issue with that theory is that SA followed CW over to the windows, not vice versa.

 

[al66pine]

Focusing on Core Facts?

..... The focus should be on - what was SA doing lifting a toddler up to an open window 11 stories up?....

@JerseySleuth17 bbm ITA.
SA held 18 m/o toddler by the open window so close, that if he lost his grip, she would fall 100+ feet, a virtual death sentence, and that's what happened. What was he doing? Being criminally negligent.

He held an18 m/o capable of squirming, wriggling, turning, shifting, fidgeting, floundering, slithering, thrashing, flailing, writhing, twisting, sliding, kicking, scratching, and more. Did she move in a way which caused him to lose his grip? Or did he lose grip due to another cause, such as a sudden wrist muscle spasm, slippery sunscreen, carpal tunnel syndrome? Does not matter, imo. All foreseeable on his part.

 

[they'll get you]

Puerto Rico Ports Authority spokesman José Carmona said the family was gathered in or near a dining hall on the 11th floor, and the grandfather sat the toddler on the edge of a window

New claims behind baby's fall from cruise ship window

10th Jul 2019 5:26 AM
And Winkleman has already been assigned as lawyer in this article.

 

[they'll get you]

8:08 AM, JULY 10, 2019,

Winkleman said he was retained by the family on Monday to “set the record straight.” As he describes it, the toddler’s tragic death.

New details emerge in Baby Chloe’s cruise ship death
Monday, 8 July 2019 was when Chloe died.

 

[katydid23]

Thank you WiseGuy.

It's also why it is crucial to MW that people think there was only one open window at the time of the incident. More open windows present more opportunities for a reasonable person to observe that it is not in fact a fully closed wall of glass. The cctv footage clearly puts the lie to that claim.

And if he tries to justify his ignorance, that it was a wall of glass, by claiming he is colour-blind, I don't think that will work, legally.

If he has a debilitating condition, it is HIS responsibility to overcome the deficit if he is doing a dangerous action.

For example, if I pull in front of a car at an intersection , and claim I didn't see them because I have cataracts---too bad for me. It is up to me to only take on what I can do competently. If I can't see a car coming at me I shouldn't be driving. And I would be found guilty if I was sued.

If he sees a 'wall of glass' and he is colourblind, it is up to him to CHECK to see that it is in fact a closed wall and not partially open. He knows he is colourblind so he has the responsibilty to double check.

Especially if he is going to place a baby in a mortally dangerous situation. Why did he 'lean forward' with the baby in front of him, in the window ledge, if he had not seen or felt any glass?

He admits he was leaning forward to find the glass. WHY DO THAT WITH THE BABY IN HARM'S WAY?

 

[Wicked Strong]

I agree that some people immediately create go fund me whenever they feel the need to. One gal explained it as "our friends are asking how they can help, so we started a go fund me". Another one that irritated me was a community dinner (contributions) for a guy that was going through serious medical problems. I was about to go because he was in my small community, when I saw his FB page saying he's just bought a new pickup right after he was diagnosed, and he wanted to make sure he kept up his truck payments!

 

[al66pine]

Possible Prior Dangle?

.... Somewhere I saw /read that he tried this on another floor but was stopped.

. @Midwestmom2019 sbm I remember seeing that too but in comments to MSM story.
If Complaint timeline* is accurate, not much time for SA to dangle, btwn 1:15 boarding and ~ 2:40 Mom & Chloe suiting up for water fun.
So would SA have been 'supervising' Chloe during ^ time, and no other family member was around to deter/dissuade him? Or maybe fam member stopped him in mid-dangle? SMH on this.
-------------------------------------
Timeline per Complaint, w my paraphrasing:
1:15 "family" boarded.
......? Lunch, "family"(Mom Dad, Chloe, Chloe's bro, SA, & GrMother) Others, not mentioned here
......? Mom & Chloe, in swimsuits
2:40 Mom & Chloe in pool
3:50 Mom (to RCL ofc?)
3:50 SA came to H20 Zone
4:00 <--SA & Chloe to window.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Taken in part from the above PR July 7 article:
Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

“...La fiscal Ivette Nieves se encontraba realizando las entrevistas de rigor a los pasajeros que observaron la triste escena, y a los familiares que estuvieron presentes y estará haciendo las gestiones para ocupar las cámaras de seguridad de la embarcación como evidencia.”
7 de julio de 2019 • 8:04pm

“Prosecutor Ivette Nieves was conducting rigorous interviews with passengers who observed the sad scene, and with relatives who were present and will be making arrangements to occupy the security cameras of the vessel as evidence.”

Was PR LE on this fatality or what? They called in the prosecutor at the time of the tragedy. Not just police officers. Chief was on it, in MHO. “Accident or murder? We don’t know yet.” She was called bc she would know what evidence was needed at time of trial. And LE was not about to make any mistakes. Took statements. Maybe recorded. Written. Location of original departure, contact info of cruisers information for follow up. Videos? Pics? taken by passengers on their cameras.
I’d bet LE was rolling cameras the entire time. Incognito.
SA could be in deep Doodoo.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Some of the donation pages started for situations local to me are not started by anyone who knows the family, it's just a person who heard about the situation in the news or something. So sometimes I'll see 2 or more set up by different people for the same situation.

I like to think people mean well.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I don’t see the wall of windows as a hidden danger because of the railing in front of it. He also should’ve read the ship’s rules about staying off the railings. If the windows could not be opened, why was a railing there at all?

I wonder if SA signed the cruising rules individually. Or whether mom signed for everyone.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Wow! So we can estimate this couple makes well over 100k per year. I can't imagine it would have been too difficult for them to afford this cruise. I also can't imagine it would be too much to send their son on a hockey trip. Yet, despite this, they had their hands out well before the cruise, hired a civil attorney to sue the cruise line before they buried their daughter, and now have multiple "Go Fund Me" pages for various expenses. JMOO, but this speaks volumes about their character.

Checked crowd source today for SA. Can’t sleuth Chloe but I bet you’d find it interesting. I checked other sources, too. But you need to look. Bc I can’t tell you.

 

[al66pine]

8:08 AM, JULY 10, 2019,
Winkleman said he was retained by the family on Monday to “set the record straight.” As he describes it, the toddler’s tragic death.
New details emerge in Baby Chloe’s cruise ship death
Monday, 8 July 2019 was when Chloe died.

Small detail, DoD = July 7. Per complaint, & obit.
Nevertheless Winkleman did not waste any time in contacting MSM.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Checked crowd source today for SA. Can’t sleuth Chloe but I bet you’d find it interesting. I checked other sources, too. But you need to look. Bc I can’t tell you.

We know about the hockey trip, the memorial bench, SA's legal fees and family's burial expenses.

There's more than these 4?

 

[Montrealaise]

I read it also. It was talked about on the first (deleted) thread IMO.

I also read that a worker on the dock below saw what SA was doing and went to alert his supervisor, but didn't reach him in time. If these reports are true, these people will almost certainly be witnesses at both the civil and the criminal trials.

 

[neesaki]

The issue with that theory is that SA followed CW over to the windows, not vice versa.

Considering that he was leaning down apparently speaking to her, is it possible he sent her over to the windows?