In my right hand is the blue pill, in my left the red pill

[BOESP]

I think you misunderstand. We're not talking about a middle aged mother writing as a middle-aged mother. We're talking about an extremely agitated middle-aged actress/pageant mother TRYING to talk like a sophisticated criminal. I think that's tripping you up.



Sounds like you had a few already.

SuperDave, you left out "Journalism Major," as in Bachelor of Arts. :blowkiss:

 

[JMO8778]

nice to see you again,BOESP.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Because we can't change the past.

No, we're studying the past. Some of us are anyway. It is possible that LE could've found JBR at 7 or 8 AM. Had LE found JBR at that time, what would've been on LE radio that morning?

Its worth noting that on December 26 at 7-8 AM, LE wasn't quite going with the 'its a bogus RN, the R's did it' idea yet.

 

[Ravyn]

Since this question is asked and tell me what would you be thinking if you was the first cop on scene...Now keep in mind you have to put what you know of the case out of your mind...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Since this question is asked and tell me what would you be thinking if you was the first cop on scene...Now keep in mind you have to put what you know of the case out of your mind...

First off, the description of JBR and description of who she may be with goes out on the radio. Amber alert and all that. You'd have to believe there was foul play because of the RN.

I then might be thinking to search the house completely. Rooms, closets, everything. Because I know of an instance where a girl disappeared, and cops were everywhere, but then she showed up under her own bed.

After that, the neighborhood. There's sometimes neighborhood goofballs that maybe thought they could easily get ransom money with a violent note.

 

[Ravyn]

Now yes be the first thing to do but also on the note there was signs of foul play why didn't the LE tell the friends and the R's to stay put or tell the R's their friends should leave..Cause if JR said he saw a blue van and with the LE and friends showing up wouldn't he thought about the note little more seriously that she dies...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Now yes be the first thing to do but also on the note there was signs of foul play why didn't the LE tell the friends and the R's to stay put or tell the R's their friends should leave..Cause if JR said he saw a blue van and with the LE and friends showing up wouldn't he thought about the note little more seriously that she dies...

When we start reading and obeying ransom notes is when we all start working for kidnappers. Having said that, the case I remember with the girl, her house was filled with neighbors too.

Your question, what would I do, was answered.

Not letting anybody in or out and treating the house as a crime scene is an arguable point. Also, excluding friends neighbors and family assumes they don't know anything or can't help. The 911 call sort of let the cat out of the bag anyway, as far as complying with the ransom note was concerned.

 

[Ravyn]

But see that is another point in itself with all the cases that says don't contact the police how many did..So with putting that in the note any kidnapper mostly knew the police would be contacted...That is human nature isn't it to get help..

 

[Ames]

Hey did you see American Pie? Hey I'm old enough for a drink Every girl talks about Twilight and that Edward Cullen dude.

I admit I don't know about this but reading the RN it's definitely what a teen or young white adolescent male would think of. On youtube there are self-made videos of this demographic pretending to be Neo or Darth Maul or Mafia

Yeah, he IS pretty hot. And his body shimmers like glass.....(which really...is kinda odd, but...Edward makes it look good!)

 

[DeeDee249]

So you're old enough for a drink. My guess is early 20's. I'm three times your age- but I never drink. Actually I have never had an alcoholic drink, even in my high school/college days. Not because of religious reasons or anything...people just get stupid when they drink. I am more one to watch them be stupid and use it against them later.

I guess chicks do dig Edward Cullen. But the actor who plays him is probably no where near as cool.

 

[Ames]

So you're old enough for a drink. My guess is early 20's. I'm three times your age- but I never drink. Actually I have never had an alcoholic drink, even in my high school/college days. Not because of religious reasons or anything...people just get stupid when they drink. I am more one to watch them be stupid and use it against them later.

I guess chicks do dig Edward Cullen. But the actor who plays him is probably no where near as cool.

Yeah, my daughter even says that he is strange looking...the actor that plays Edward....NOT Edward!! LOL

 

[BBB167893]

Master Yoda said the dark side is not stronger.
yoda = old fashion

CASKU = YODA

Yoda is fictional; this really happened.

I don't have an answer but based on solved crimes and profiler pre-crime predictions, what is their % success? 99% vs 50%?

I couldn't say for sure, but I'd say fairly high. As Det. Thomas said, these guys do this every day.

What family in-jokes and chiding language?

"Fat cat" was a nickname for JR used by PR's sisters and parents, for one. "Good southern common sense" was another.

The I'd advise you to be rested sounds to me like the mafia-godfather, we'll make you a generous offer, isn't that right Tony? family in-joke "use that good southern sense" could be a pedophile child peasant fan who mistakenly thought R's were Southern.

I think you've gone a bit far off, voynich. Fun's fun, but this is no game.

 

[BBB167893]

huh? Strange that I did not. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Dave.

They are clear. I know this from experience.

Maybe I should lay down my lightsaber and talk about errr Jon and Kate + 8????

You lost me.

 

[BBB167893]

I forgot about that.

Probably for the best.

Beheading is also a theme in the ultra-violent video game

Mortal Kombat, fatalities. FINISH HIM!

I seem to remember mentioning that to HOTYH a while ago.

(I love Mortal Kombat, btw.)

 

[BBB167893]

SuperDave, you left out "Journalism Major," as in Bachelor of Arts. :blowkiss:

Yes, I DID forget that!

(On the plus side, at least SOMEONE noticed what I said!)

 

[BBB167893]

Its worth noting that on December 26 at 7-8 AM, LE wasn't quite going with the 'its a bogus RN, the R's did it' idea yet.

How is it worth noting? It was just a few hours into the case. At the time, they had no reason (nor the knowledge) to think it was anything other than what it said it was.

It wasn't until a) Ron Walker, an FBI agent with more experience than the cops put together arrived and said "this RN's a fake, this is a homicide, we'll find her dead" that the R's house of cards started to shiver, b) the Rs started acting like they couldn't be bothered to help catch the "real killer," and c) the forensic and behavioral evidence started to pile up.

Seem like you're trying to have it both ways, HOTYH. Either you believe that the cops were out to hang the Rs from Day One (which is JR's story, WHEN he can keep it straight!), or they legitimately tried to do everything the best they knew how and came to suspect the Rs equally legitimately.

Can't be both.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

How is it worth noting? It was just a few hours into the case. At the time, they had no reason (nor the knowledge) to think it was anything other than what it said it was.

It wasn't until a) Ron Walker, an FBI agent with more experience than the cops put together arrived and said "this RN's a fake, this is a homicide, we'll find her dead" that the R's house of cards started to shiver, b) the Rs started acting like they couldn't be bothered to help catch the "real killer," and c) the forensic and behavioral evidence started to pile up.

Seem like you're trying to have it both ways, HOTYH. Either you believe that the cops were out to hang the Rs from Day One (which is JR's story, WHEN he can keep it straight!), or they legitimately tried to do everything the best they knew how and came to suspect the Rs equally legitimately.

Can't be both.

Read the posts, and maybe it would be clearer that what we're discussing is the impression LE was under, and what was on LE radio.

The question I've been asking is this:

If JBR were found right when BPD got there, what description or information wouold go on the radio? Keeping in mind that the R's were not quite under the umbrella yet.

 

[BBB167893]

Sorry. I did get a bit off the beaten track there. I have a lot on my mind.

But like I said, what good does it do now? We can't go back in time and change it.

 

[BBB167893]

You're wishes are my command, folks.

There's a CO resident named Tom Miller. He is, or at least was, a lawyer and a court-certified handwriting expert. After several weeks of study, he came to a conclusion as to who wrote the RN: PR did. That's when Team R swung into action.

The Rs claimed for several years that the private investigators they had hired were only to hunt down leads the BPD were "ignoring." But what they were really doing was just what I said. Miller was roped, under false pretenses, into meeting with one of the Rs' hired experts. It turned out to be a set-up. The man who asked him to come along was a tabloid writer who tried to bribe the Rs' man for an RN copy.

Miller was arrested and charged. Now, THIS is where things get interesting. The Jefferson County DA, David Thomas, was friends with Hal Haddon, the Ramsey lawyer. In fact, they owed each other political favors. Haddon made a call to Thomas and asked him to make sure that Miller would be damaged goods if he were ever called to testify in court as to his conclusions, which was a possibility since he was well-known to the local judges and lawyers. The Jefferson DA offered Miller a plea-bargain. Voynich mentioned the Godfather. Apropos, certainly. But instead of an offer he couldn't refuse, the deal was an offer no spirited man could ever accept. The deal was, if Miller wanted to avoid a trial and possible jail time, he'd have to give up his law license and discredit his own status as a document examiner.

Miller told them to stuff their deal. So, he went to trial in 2001. At the trial, Miller's lawyer pulled off a real coup. He subpoenaed one of the private investigators responsible, a man named David L. Miller (no relation), and got him to admit in open court that he was told by Haddon's office to dig up dirt on Miller to use against him if he were ever called to testify as to who he thought wrote the RN. He also admitted that he himself was just doing his job, and that the real dirty tricks were thought up at a higher level.

It took the jury less than an hour to find Miller not guilty. And just in case anyone thinks I'm just making this up, the transcript of the trial is available on Compact Disc under the title Salute to American Justice. Look for it on eBay. Or, if you wait a little, I can try (no promises) to post it here from my copy.

As a coda to this story, later that year, JR was deposed in a civil trial. During that deposition, he admitted that his earlier statements were knowingly false. The private eyes were never meant to follow up on leads. Their job was to build a defense in case the Rs were ever brought to trial. To use JR's words, to "keep us out of jail."

Raises some interesting questions, doesn't it?

Voynich nailed it: "The Godfather."

Voynich, I notice that you're not too gung-ho to tackle this. Can't say as I blame you.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Sorry. I did get a bit off the beaten track there. I have a lot on my mind.

But like I said, what good does it do now? We can't go back in time and change it.

It does good to study what ifs.

Regardless of IDI or RDI, LE could've found JBR soon after they got there. That would've changed the broadcast to what? It matters because the broadcast could've been more detailed than you think.

Intruders fleeing the scene could, if pulled over, match the broadcast. All the broadcast needed was one statement.