In my right hand is the blue pill, in my left the red pill

[BBB167893]

It does good to study what ifs.

Doesn't seem to do me much good!

Regardless of IDI or RDI, LE could've found JBR soon after they got there. That would've changed the broadcast to what? It matters because the broadcast could've been more detailed than you think.

Ah. I see.

Intruders fleeing the scene could, if pulled over, match the broadcast. All the broadcast needed was one statement.

I figured that's what you meant. Okay, then I'll play ball. Let's say it did happen. In my opinion, ultimately it would have changed nothing. Sure, they may have picked up a few people matching some vague "description," but in the end, if there truly was no intruder, as I think, then all it would have done is create more problems, waste more resources, etc. And as far as I'm concerned, the BPD spent too much time and money on wild goose chases as it was.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Doesn't seem to do me much good!



Ah. I see.



I figured that's what you meant. Okay, then I'll play ball. Let's say it did happen. In my opinion, ultimately it would have changed nothing. Sure, they may have picked up a few people matching some vague "description," but in the end, if there truly was no intruder, as I think, then all it would have done is create more problems, waste more resources, etc. And as far as I'm concerned, the BPD spent too much time and money on wild goose chases as it was.

I doubt BPD is thinking "what a bogus RN, who could ever believe SFF" at 8 o'clock that morning. The key words in the RN would be 'group' 'gentlemen' and 'foreign'. A group of foreign gentlemen.

The best response in that case would be to broadcast a description of a group of men, possibly 3, possibly foreign, possibly with missing or invalid identification.

May I see your papers? No papers? Where are your papers?

Instead, I'm assuming they broadcasted a description of a six year old girl with blond hair and blue eyes.

A group of foreign gentlemen fleeing the county/state/country would therefore have a tactical advantage hiding JBR in the house and leaving a ransom note indicating JBR had been kidnapped.

 

[Ravyn]

If it went out on the radio... This ia a non family abduction be advised possibly more than one kidnapper the only lead is someone of forgien orgin..Plus JonBenet's description..Oh and danger would be in that also...

 

[BBB167893]

I doubt BPD is thinking "what a bogus RN, who could ever believe SFF" at 8 o'clock that morning. The key words in the RN would be 'group' 'gentlemen' and 'foreign'. A group of foreign gentlemen.

I didn't day they were thinking that. I'm saying that from where I am, it would have caused a lot of trouble for no good reason.

The best response in that case would be to broadcast a description of a group of men, possibly 3, possibly foreign, possibly with missing or invalid identification.

May I see your papers? No papers? Where are your papers?

Can you even imagine the kind of trouble that would cause? Do you even realize what you're saying? Every airport, train station, rental car agency and taxi service within 50 miles (at least) would have to check out every person that came across for at least a week. Since the broadcast would have not said what these guys would have looked like, there would have been no way to narrow the search. And not every foreign person has a pronounced accent. Also, a lot of people from foreign countries don't trust the police, often due to bad experiences with the cops back home.

Moreover, the risk of detaining an innocent person would be high indeed. Leaving aside how quick you were to jump on me for mentioning terrorist profiling at airports, all you need is for one of them to make a stink back home and it's an international incident.

And for what? In my opinion, it would have been a fool's errand.

Instead, I'm assuming they broadcasted a description of a six year old girl with blond hair and blue eyes.

Don't they ALWAYS broadcast a description of kidnap victims? Along with photos if available?

A group of foreign gentlemen fleeing the county/state/country would therefore have a tactical advantage hiding JBR in the house and leaving a ransom note indicating JBR had been kidnapped.

HOTYH, I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I didn't day they were thinking that. I'm saying that from where I am, it would have caused a lot of trouble for no good reason.



Can you even imagine the kind of trouble that would cause? Do you even realize what you're saying? Every airport, train station, rental car agency and taxi service within 50 miles (at least) would have to check out every person that came across for at least a week. Since the broadcast would have not said what these guys would have looked like, there would have been no way to narrow the search. And not every foreign person has a pronounced accent. Also, a lot of people from foreign countries don't trust the police, often due to bad experiences with the cops back home.

Moreover, the risk of detaining an innocent person would be high indeed. Leaving aside how quick you were to jump on me for mentioning terrorist profiling at airports, all you need is for one of them to make a stink back home and it's an international incident.

And for what? In my opinion, it would have been a fool's errand.



Don't they ALWAYS broadcast a description of kidnap victims? Along with photos if available?



HOTYH, I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brain falls out.

I think you got carried away. IF THEY FOUND JBR AT 8 O"CLOCK IN THE MORNING, THEY WOULD NOT BROADCAST A KIDNAPPING. They would watch for any car with a group of adult males, and if they looked suspicious, pull them over and check their license and registration. Thats all.

Maybe this group of foreign adult males DIDNT WANT to be seen from across the street by a black and white, and then get pulled over, because they couldn't show valid license! Or, they had a rental.

Three foreign adult males driving a rental, with not all having valid ID would be worth noting on that day.

 

[Ravyn]

I don't think so IF this happen then they would look faster at the parents..IF I was a cop I would...

 

[BBB167893]

I think you got carried away.

At this point, I'd say that's likely. Like I said, a lot on my mind.

IF THEY FOUND JBR AT 8 O"CLOCK IN THE MORNING, THEY WOULD NOT BROADCAST A KIDNAPPING. They would watch for any car with a group of adult males, and if they looked suspicious, pull them over and check their license and registration. Thats all.

Even so, that could easily still lead to the kind of abuses I was talking about.

Maybe this group of foreign adult males DIDNT WANT to be seen from across the street by a black and white, and then get pulled over, because they couldn't show any license!

I think you and I are the victims of a mutual misunderstanding. You seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that if JB had been found as you say, then there was a chance her killers could have been caught before they cleared out of Dodge.

What I'm saying is that it would have been a fool's errand. IF there was no intruder, then it would have done no good either way, would it? All I'm asking is for you to see it my way for a BRIEF moment. I don't think that's asking very much.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

RDI has this luxury of having everything happen inside the house. Very tidy.

IDI has to ingress and egress. IDI asks the question why invite FBI to kidnapping scene knowing they'll find a child murder? Why not just child murder? Answer: LE is looking for a girl and not a group of men. The ransom note is an alert/diversionary tactic while they are there, and a diversionary tactic after they left.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

At this point, I'd say that's likely. Like I said, a lot on my mind.



Even so, that could easily still lead to the kind of abuses I was talking about.



I think you and I are the victims of a mutual misunderstanding. You seem to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that if JB had been found as you say, then there was a chance her killers could have been caught before they cleared out of Dodge.

What I'm saying is that it would have been a fool's errand. IF there was no intruder, then it would have done no good either way, would it? All I'm asking is for you to see it my way for a BRIEF moment. I don't think that's asking very much.

If IDI then the chance of getting caught would've gone up if the LE radio description focused on the ransom note author and henchmen, instead of JBR.

 

[BBB167893]

If IDI then the chance of getting caught would've gone up if the LE radio description focused on the ransom note author and henchmen, instead of JBR.

Isn't that what I said you said?

(BTW: if there's one word I would not use in relation to RDI, luxury would be it.)

 

[Tadpole12]

RDI has this luxury of having everything happen inside the house. Very tidy.

IDI has to ingress and egress.

Hi Hotyh.

That's true, IDI scenario wise, not even sure how long IDI was in the Ramsey home, or if they left and reentered.

IDI asks the question why invite FBI to kidnapping scene knowing they'll find a child murder? Why not just child murder? Answer: LE is looking for a girl and not a group of men. The ransom note is an alert/diversionary tactic while they are there, and a diversionary tactic after they left.

sure, but if you're unknown IDI to start, why give specifics on your description. Why detail three foreigners traveling out of BC, or 'holdup' somewhere in BC? foreign points to rental cars, motels and travel.

For sure, the false rn within your hired foreign kidnapper scenario splits police efforts, up until the point in time when her body is found, which for all the ff could predict would be shortly after the rn was found.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hi Hotyh.

That's true, IDI scenario wise, not even sure how long IDI was in the Ramsey home, or if they left and reentered.



sure, but if you're unknown IDI to start, why give specifics on your description. Why detail three foreigners traveling out of BC, or 'holdup' somewhere in BC? foreign points to rental cars, motels and travel.

For sure, the false rn within your hired foreign kidnapper scenario splits police efforts, up until the point in time when her body is found, which for all the ff could predict would be shortly after the rn was found.

Good question deserving a good answer.

Why not just 'Your daughter dead if no 100000 in 100's and 18000 in 20's unmarked. Will call tomorrow 8-10 A. No cops.'

IDI needs an explanation for the excess verbage. Of course, RDI nees an explanation too.

In this IDI scenario, its a botched kidnapping of JBR. She was supposed to be kidnapped for keeps, never ransomed or returned. I think the ransom note author had more to say to JBR's father and everybody else, by embedding an alternative socioeconomic ideology in the RN. The author did not want to appear as a loner, but with a following. His description was vague except that there was a following and that a foreign faction was being 'represented'

RDI thinks somebody was being overly dramatic and/or pretending to be criminally sophisticated.

 

[anne11]

I've been going back over the ransom note to see if i could find evidence that it was written by someone french, the use of grammar, punctuation and vocabulary point to someone anglophone, imo. In france they genrally teach english spelling not US, they use the 24 hour clock and not AM/PM, they use a . in numbers and not a , they are taught to write in script from elementary school so generally write in script and looking at my daughters textbooks they teach a lot of out of date phrases and seem to make similar grammatical mistakes, which were not present in the RN
There again my husband thinks the RN may have been written by a Canadian

 

[JMO8778]

RDI has this luxury of having everything happen inside the house. Very tidy.

let's face it,intruders are not so tidy ! little things like replacing the cap and putting the pen back in the cup,and the one that screams RDI the most...the grate was NOT out of place that morning.To think that an intruder moved it to get out then took the time (all after JB had screamed,mind you) to place it back is just absurd.(and I think you know it).

 

[DeeDee249]

let's face it,intruders are not so tidy ! little things like replacing the cap and putting the pen back in the cup,and the one that screams RDI the most...the grate was NOT out of place that morning.To think that an intruder moved it to get out then took the time (all after JB had screamed,mind you) to place it back is just absurd.(and I think you know it).

And without breaking the spider web. too.

As far as the FBI- they are usually called in when it is a kidnapping, especially a child. When they first arrived, they of course, thanks to Officer French, did not know it was a chid murder. But after being there just a while, they were immediately suspicious of the parents. I believe they said before they were sent away "You're going to be finding her body". They also mentioned parental involvement.

The thing with the RN is this (among many) - a written note is like your "hat" online in a way. Anyone can say they are anything. I say I am a middle aged woman, but I could really be a teenage boy. Or an old man. Or Artificial Intelligence.
There was no guarantee that there were any "two gentlemen" at all involved. There could have been three. Or five. Or a woman and 2 men. Or four women. I mean, you just can't assume the note, if it were real, to be truthful as far as the description. An all-points bulletin would be useless if it was a girl dresses as a boy, wearing a dark wig or hat, accompanied by anything other than 2 gentlemen.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

And without breaking the spider web. too.

As far as the FBI- they are usually called in when it is a kidnapping, especially a child. When they first arrived, they of course, thanks to Officer French, did not know it was a chid murder. But after being there just a while, they were immediately suspicious of the parents. I believe they said before they were sent away "You're going to be finding her body". They also mentioned parental involvement.

The thing with the RN is this (among many) - a written note is like your "hat" online in a way. Anyone can say they are anything. I say I am a middle aged woman, but I could really be a teenage boy. Or an old man. Or Artificial Intelligence.
There was no guarantee that there were any "two gentlemen" at all involved. There could have been three. Or five. Or a woman and 2 men. Or four women. I mean, you just can't assume the note, if it were real, to be truthful as far as the description. An all-points bulletin would be useless if it was a girl dresses as a boy, wearing a dark wig or hat, accompanied by anything other than 2 gentlemen.

RDI has long termed the ransom note as a bogus, useless piece of paper with no informational value because in RDI it would have to be a bogus fictional fabrication by PR and/or JR.

Its easy to state that the RN is all a lie, a fabrication. That is however a claim that has not been established. For example, its not factually known that the ransom note author is of one nationality or another.

If some information, at face value, gleaned from the ransom that would point to say, a person, then that person can be checked for alibis, motives, etc.

 

[voynich]

I've been going back over the ransom note to see if i could find evidence that it was written by someone french, the use of grammar, punctuation and vocabulary point to someone anglophone, imo. In france they genrally teach english spelling not US, they use the 24 hour clock and not AM/PM, they use a . in numbers and not a , they are taught to write in script from elementary school so generally write in script and looking at my daughters textbooks they teach a lot of out of date phrases and seem to make similar grammatical mistakes, which were not present in the RN
There again my husband thinks the RN may have been written by a Canadian

very interesting. Some RDI conjecture

the "profile" of the RN is a Francophile, as evidence by francophilic linguistic features
PR was a Francophile
therefore, PR fits the profile of the author of the RN

premise (1) is thrown into doubt

 

[voynich]

Yoda is fictional; this really happened.



I couldn't say for sure, but I'd say fairly high. As Det. Thomas said, these guys do this every day.



"Fat cat" was a nickname for JR used by PR's sisters and parents, for one. "Good southern common sense" was another.



I think you've gone a bit far off, voynich. Fun's fun, but this is no game.

Do you have a specific number? How many solved cases had CASKU prediction profiles, and in how many of these solved cases did CASKU profiles proved validated (with specific details, not vague generalities) and in how many were they wrong? With unsolved mysteries obviously there is no way to independently validate CASKU's skills.

I'm not really being fun, I think the author tried to talk tough by borrowing from a hollywood depiction of the mafia.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Do you have a specific number? How many solved cases had CASKU prediction profiles, and in how many of these solved cases did CASKU profiles proved validated (with specific details, not vague generalities) and in how many were they wrong? With unsolved mysteries obviously there is no way to independently validate CASKU's skills.

I'm not really being fun, I think the author tried to talk tough by borrowing from a hollywood depiction of the mafia.

Please, you don't mean like a foreigner 'borrowed' from Hollywood what they thought would be scary to an American do you?

 

[voynich]

Please, you don't mean like a foreigner 'borrowed' from Hollywood what they thought would be scary to an American do you?

i was thinking some thrill kill adolescent who has read tru crime genre and thriller movies and mafia and military movies, attempting to use their language to make the RN sound that of a harden sophisticated career criminal