Just Patsy, only Patsy

[DeDee]

I got the info from the Bonita papers "The immediate family and Burke's schoolmate rode in a corporate jet, piloted by John and carrying the casket with JonBenet for her final trip home to Georgia." It only took me 7 months to find where I read it. Is this not a reliable source?

John Ramsey was an accomplished airplane pilot, ATT. Subic Bay rings a bell. JMO JR never intended to escort his daughter's casket. IIRC, JR attempted to flee town asap. Then, his wife was placed on strong meds and he drank a little. Nothing wrong with that. John was an Episcopalian. The cover up began.

Lockheed Martin took over the helm during this time of great need and flew their corporate executive, his family and friends to GA. IIRC, JBR's casket was on this plane. Another chartered jet rode more passengers to GA; ie, Fleet White.

I am currently visiting in Denver after spending five days in Boulder at the base of Chautauqua Park. I drove by JBR's home every day. I drove the alleyway twice. Boulder is a fabulous place to visit. It is quite simply the gem of the Rockies at a special place called the Flatirons. I adored this area long before this recent visit.

Most every street ends at Baseline Drive which offered an entrance into Chautauqua Park driving on 2-lane road or hiking as many chose to the top of the mountain. Cyclists were numerous. After sunset on top of the mountain, a slow drive down offers the city lights showing off with twinkling lights for miles and miles.

Boulder's streets, ie., 15TH Street, are wide with lots room for parking on the streets. 15TH Street is nice. I saw JonBenét's balcony. The home's front door was obscured by tall Junipers. I walked the alleyway nonchalantly.

John Fernie stated he entered via the narrow alley. I believe he was already at the R home when police arrived. It was then that Fernie "faked his recent arrival" w/his odd claim of reading the RN upside down. JMO

The UofCa@B is in a beautiful setting constructed of stacked native stones. Lunched at a healthy café near campus. White caps remained on the tips of many fabulous mountain ranges.

Boulder's Pearl Street Mall was subjected to construction. Otherwise, it is a treat unto itself. One morning's breakfast was a Belgian Waffle with yogurt and fruit. I could see where John's office windows would overlook the school JonBenét attended across the street.

I dined at Pasta Jay's one evening. I imagined the Rs at the center table with JonBenet on display. Veal Parmesan was exquisitely served with the veal round to fit the dinner plate and worth every dollar. The tomato wine sauce with manicotti was delish. It was one of the most popular nightly places to dine. I began that meal with Tiramisu and fine wine. I dropped into the Cheesecake Factory another evening; however, it was not nearly as elegant as others I have visited such as Chicago's CFactory and its gorgeous interior in the basement of the John Hancock Building.

The winds howl as I sit here grounded. Connected. In this beautiful community, where an unsolved murder of a six year old little girl blows in the wind evermore.

Rest In Peace, JonBenét

 

[CorallaroC]

thank you DeDee for your insights about your recent visit... as time goes on, would love to hear more about your experiences there.

 

[DeDee]

(snipped)

RSBM

It's difficult for people to recognize evil for what it is -- much less confront it. When we see signs of something maybe we don't want to believe, it's easier to pass it off or attribute it to something else. Our mind naturally wants to find an innocent explanation.

This is why (I think) we see so many posters say things like, "I just don't believe _____ (fill in the blank here with any one of the R's) would be capable of doing this." And I would suggest, the investigators in Boulder might also be just as likely to do this same thing, even though they should be exposed more often to some of the evil things that people do.

If you don't believe pure evil can exist, just do a search for information on Jonathan and Sarah Adleta who were just recently sentenced for what they did to their kids. They had children for the expressed purpose of using them for their own personal abuse. But don't read about them without knowing ahead of time that some of the information will just make you want to throw up. (I'll admit, it did make my eyes tear up just reading about it.)

BBM


An astute observation, Honey.


BILL BICKEL
On Larry King, you gave John a “pass” on the murder. Do you suspect he abused JonBenet in any way?
STEVE THOMAS
As I’ve said previously, I do not think John Ramsey was the offender in this case. Either in the death of his daughter, or otherwise. I may be proved wrong someday, but I just didn’t see it in this case. As I’ve said, I believe in my heart the mother was the offender.

BBM


JR was flying to MI to continue Christmas celebrations with his children. He was not busy killing his daughter. IMO, JR was fast asleep.

JR was not home on Christmas Day sometime between 11:00 and 4:00 bc he was loading the jet with their stuff. Only PR had more Christmas stuff for the trip at home that would go w/ them to the airport. IIRC, it was a 40 min. drive or less than an hour and a half round trip.

Did JR make a call midday on the 26th to his pilot for arranging a flight east at the point where; he knew JonBenet was dead and gone, BR was safe with the White's, PR was in a world of trouble, unless she could convince him that there was doubt PDI?



JR was away many hours for years becoming a fat cat. Consider also that Patsy took the children for the summer, beginning in June, and remained at their beach home. What did PR do with her time all summer while JR was in Boulder working?

Who was the man with the pricey cowboy boots who slept in JBRs room in Charlevoix after Patsy left in late August '96?

Repeating an otg post:
"....snipped.... believe pure evil can exist, just do a search for information on Jonathan and Sarah Adleta who were just recently sentenced for what they did to their kids. They had children for the expressed purpose of using them for their own personal abuse. But don't read about them without knowing ahead of time that some of the information will just make you want to throw up. (I'll admit, it did make my eyes tear up just reading about it.)

Thankfully, I have seen movies, read and perhaps dreamed of more evil than I have witnessed or personally seen but I know it exists just as I know love exists.

Jonathan and Sarah Adleta - I shall save this assignment for next week. TY

OMO

Oh, man. What a horrific and despicable thing to have happen. Do men and women marry so they can copulate just to have children to sexually abuse? Lord, help me. I feign a fainting spell. I don't want to think about the Rs having children solely for the purpose that was to be sex slaves as was the circumstance for Jonathan and Sarah Adelta's children.

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

[video=youtube;7YROdRPPP48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YROdRPPP48[/video]

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

[video=youtube;-IZRZZ-DqFc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IZRZZ-DqFc[/video]

 

[s(he) be(lie)ve(d)]

Patsy was PO'ed when they talked about the ransom note.

 

[BBB167893]

Patsy was PO'ed when they talked about the ransom note.

She seems to get upset easily when you hit the right nerve. Makes you wonder about that night, hmm?

 

[singularity]

Watched some of that Patsy deposition again. The more I read/see her under pressure, the more I wonder if even a roundtable of FBI experts could have cracked her. Does she stumble a bit? Sure....who wouldn't. She's an expert at recovery though and placing YOU the interrogator into the palm of her hands and working you over like a fool. She had Thomas dancing in their interview.

FBI can detect this before it gets out of control but I still think she MIGHT have been able to even dodge their bullets. Wish it had been put to the test though.

 

[BBB167893]

Watched some of that Patsy deposition again. The more I read/see her under pressure, the more I wonder if even a roundtable of FBI experts could have cracked her. Does she stumble a bit? Sure....who wouldn't. She's an expert at recovery though and placing YOU the interrogator into the palm of her hands and working you over like a fool. She had Thomas dancing in their interview.

FBI can detect this before it gets out of control but I still think she MIGHT have been able to even dodge their bullets. Wish it had been put to the test though.

Like I said, singularity: they seriously underestimated her.

 

[SandyQLS]

TOM HANEY: That is 73, 74, 75, and 76 now.
PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible).
TOM HANEY: That I couldn't tell you right at this moment. Do you remember any staining on that pillow the night you put her to bed? PATSY RAMSEY: No. It was dark in there, you know.

The R's have always gone to great lengths to create confusion over the flashlight and the pineapple. The above statement by PR intrigues me because while JR and now BR say they used the flashlight that fateful night, isn't it more likely that PR used the flashlight at some point in the area of JBR's bedroom? Somewhere here in the WS posts we also know that the lights in JBR's room were inadequate or broken. Was PR in the habit of using the flashlight to wake JBR in the night to take her to the bathroom to avoid bedwetting?

 

[SandyQLS]

I think the death was always planned for Christmas Night. It's likely one reason Patsy really did not want to go to Charlevoix. It's likely the reason the kids' luggage wasn't packed for the Disney Cruise. She knew they would not really be going.

The death of Little Miss Christmas happened on Christmas Night. Her headstone is inscribed with December 25, 1996. JR told LE he believed she died before midnight. The white burial dress was purchased in November. So were the Bloomies. The My Twinn doll Patsy ordered was later kept on display in Charlevoix. What sealed it for me was JonBenét's gold ID bracelet inscribed with the death date of Dec. 25.

DeDee, I have thought PDI from the earliest days of this case, probably from that first CNN interview where my impression of PR is that she is a liar, a drama queen and diagnosably nuts. All of the information and disinformation, careers and lives made and broken over this murder have not changed my PDI opinion. But my opinion has been PDI in an rage explosion without intent (ala Steve Thomas although I have not read his book yet).

Your posts especially in this thread are very thought-provoking as to the possibility of premeditated, planned murder by PR. I am amazed by your ability to string together the facts and evidence this way. You should write a book based on this theory, seriously!

And while I am certain you have considered it also, within this PDI w/Intent theory, there may be a clue in the tragic death of Beth (d. 1992) and the effect on JR. When PR had cancer (started when JBR was 3 y/o in summer 1993), JR was still mourning the loss of his daughter Beth - other posters have related that he literally cried for about 2 years about Beth (so that is on into 1994 while PR was receiving cancer treatments). PR may have harbored resentments about how JR so deeply loved Beth, perhaps felt JR was not attentive enough to her when she had cancer, ultimately murdered JBR in some bizarre plot to get attention from JR for herself. I would not put such a thought process and scheme past a person with severe borderline personality (one of PR's potential diagnoses among many possibilities). BPD can display in many ways, PR perhaps having a constellation of histrionic and narcissistic features. I can definitely believe that PR would have been capable of this level of mentally ill twisted thinking leading to murder.

As many have noted PR and JBR were enmeshed or fused - a classic situation of the unstable BPD mother living vicariously through the child, alternately demanding too much and offering too little to child, mother unable to establish boundaries and allow the child to thrive; to the mother, the child is an extension of mother forever, a liferaft. Perhaps PR knew the affection JR had for JBR, and the child beauty pageants were for PR not only reliving her glory days but an attempt to get attention from JR - not for JBR, but attention for PR. This backfires as JR gives good attention to JBR for her activities and successes (normal father, normal boundaries) because it enrages the needy mother to see affection given to anyone but herself even though she is the stage-mother pushing the child; the child is merely a prop to get attention from JR. If the marriage was in serious trouble as some close to the family have indicated (housekeeper), PR would have become increasingly manipulative, using her children as a means to get love-sympathy-attention from JR disregarding the children's needs and only considering her own, PR experiencing intense jealousy and even hatred for JBR and BR every time JR gives the children a hug, smile or encouraging word. Similar are the divorce cases with a custodial battle where one parent kills a child to take the child away from the other parent in twisted emtional revenge. DeDee may have really hit on the true underlying motive with her theory. The crack on the head was enormous, held huge energy, and came from rage - unintentional or intentional, and regardless of theory of perpetrator.

I am going to be thinking about DeDee's PDI w/Intent theory for a long time....let that simmer with all we know 20 years later....

 

[SandyQLS]

DeDee - if you return to this thread, OMG. Referring to otg's post here about the source for what we think we know about the 911 call on 12/23... that FW misdialed 911 instead of 411 is only sourced from the JR/PR book DOI? So in DeDee's theory of PDI w/Intent, it was PR who would have dialed 911 knowing it would be seen as a mistake by any of the adults or just kids playing around in the house that night, PR checking to see how long it would take for LE to arrive? OMG, that would be wild.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?123338-The-December-23-party&p=12841553#post12841553

 

[DeDee]

dedee - if you return to this thread, omg. Referring to otg's post here about the source for what we think we know about the 911 call on 12/23... That fw misdialed 911 instead of 411 is only sourced from the jr/pr book doi? So in dedee's theory of pdi w/intent, it was pr who would have dialed 911 knowing it would be seen as a mistake by any of the adults or just kids playing around in the house that night, pr checking to see how long it would take for le to arrive? Omg, that would be wild.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?123338-the-december-23-party&p=12841553#post12841553

the ligatures were not stage props they were functional, they were used to pose the body. The reason there is 17" of cord from the loop around the neck to the handle is the handle had to clear the head as it was brought up behind the head and placed into a holder or one end of the stick was placed into a hole with the other end protruding out. This raised the torso to a vertical position, either seated, kneeling or on the feet. I don't think there was a free hanging suspension. The reason there was 15" of cord between the loops on the wrists is that cord was brought up over the head and placed over whatever held the handle or over the protruding end of the stick. This raised the arms to an upright postition, the same position they were found in in rigor. The 15" of cord between the wrist loops would not have restricted movement of the arms much at all and could not have fooled investigators as being a binding. The ligatures were not constructed to decieve police. They were functional as posing devices. This is a classic posing of a body after death for reasons known only to the perpetrator. The raising of arms has well known symbolism; surrender, praise, beseeching and others. Whatever it meant to patsy can only guessed, mine is it had something to do with victory!

This is my opinion.

that is right. There was a psychotic reason.

Psycho is a colloquialism. Psychotic is the appropriate scientific term.

Imo.

i wasn't referring to the photo where she was obviously turned to her left in order to photograph the right side of her face. this photo shows where her right hand is in relation to her head. The artist's rendering shows it much higher and to the left of where it actually was. I'm not disputing that her arms were raised in an unnatural position while in rigor. I'm simply saying there are things that are slightly wrong with that sketch, so you can't use it to say that's what was found.

So i imagine you're saying she was posed for a short enough period of time for patsy to simply see it and then let her down after fulfilling this fantasy? Why then would her arms be put back into the raised position afterwards while the rigor takes place?

So do you think patsy was able unassisted to raise jonbenet's body by the cord high enough to somehow afix it to something stationary? Even partially suspended, from what you've described, her torso would be vertical accounting for most of her 45 pounds.

Sandy,

The 1st book that I read was A Mother Gone Bad written by Andrew Hodges that earned its title b/c Patsy's of softball team's name, Moms Gone Bad. I was full-force ahead on the PDI all for years, while at the same time reading otg's insightful posts RE: BR, my dark horse. Not long ago, otg told me that I didn't want to see BR doing all of that horrible stuff to JBR and he was correct. Kolar's book was excellent on the subject so I was primed to move over to BDI. Hence, I did not jump the fence to BDI until seeing and hearing BR on DP and viewing the revelations of the expert CBS Panel. At that point, I was no longer able to remain committed to PDI and waved the white flag.

This thread is a good one if you wish to learn a bit more about PDI theories. BlueBottle suspected Patsy of posing the body with the ligatures.
The Ligatures

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226193-The-Ligatures&p=9967170#post9967170

And this thread titled simply Patsy Ramsey.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?76520-Patsy-Ramsey

 

[DeDee]

my comments are in green.

what better time to plan a crime than when the le departments are left short staffed due to the christmas holiday?

Let's take a look at the timeline to see how many officers were involved on the cs by 10:30 and throughout the day:

Thursday, december 26, 1996
approximate sequence events & approximate arrival/departure

patsy ramsey dialed 911 (5:52am)
patsy ramsey phoned whites
patsy ramsey phoned fernies
john ramsey (reading note)
burke ramsey (sleeping??)
jonbenet ramsey (missing)
officer rick french arrived (5:59am)
officer karl veitch arrived
sgt. Paul reichenbach arrived
fleet white arrived (6:30am)
priscilla white arrived (6:30am)
john fernie arrived via the alleyway and walked to side patio to read the rn that was on the floor
barbara fernie arrived
mary lou jedamus-advocate (6:45am)
grace morlock-advocate (6:45am)
officer barry weiss (6:45am)
officer sue barchlow (6:45am)
priscilla white phones home (6:45am) and within 15 min. Br is ushered out of the front door.
reverend rol hoverstock (7:00am)
burke taken to whites (7:00am)
k-9 unit on standby (7:33am)
sgt. Paul reichenbach meets arndt* to transfer recording devices required to la
det. Linda arndt arrives (8:10am)* with the recording equipment, the 1st detective arrives
det. Fred patterson (8:10am)
crime scene investigators dusting prints
jonbenet bedroom sealed (10:30am)

back at bpd while this is going on, we know calls were made to assure the ramsey's were to be treated as victims. Maybe those were conf calls or meetings about the kidnapping in boulder and lockheed martin because actually, the ramsey's were provided with an island of privacy and lots of other comforts million dollar lawyers can provide.

linda arndt phoned sgt. Mason (12:00pm)
linda arndt phoned sgt. Mason (12:30pm)
jonbenet found murdered (1:10pm)
det. Linda arndt dialed 911 (1:12pm)
officer barry weiss returned (1:20pm)
det. Michael everett (1:20pm)
priscilla white phones home (1:30pm)
jramsey phones gary merriman (1:30pm)
john ramsey phones his pilot (1:40pm)
sgt. Larry mason arrives (1:45pm)
fbi agent ron walker arrives (1:45pm)
jr signed search form (2:15pm)
ramsey left residence (2:15pm)
house empty (2:35pm)
bpd tech video taped house
dr. John meyer arrived (8:23pm)
sgt. Larry mason to press (10:45pm)
det. Linda arndt left house (11:44pm)

a proper shoutout to acandyrose for providing the above information by maintaining her website

:loveyou:​

:cow:

 

[otg]

Sandy,

The 1st book that I read was A Mother Gone Bad written by Andrew Hodges that earned its title b/c Patsy's of softball team's name, Moms Gone Bad. I was full-force ahead on the PDI all for years, while at the same time reading otg's insightful posts RE: BR, my dark horse. Not long ago, otg told me that I didn't want to see BR doing all of that horrible stuff to JBR and he was correct. Kolar's book was excellent on the subject so I was primed to move over to BDI. Hence, I did not jump the fence to BDI until seeing and hearing BR on DP and viewing the revelations of the expert CBS Panel. At that point, I was no longer able to remain committed to PDI and waved the white flag.

This thread is a good one if you wish to learn a bit more about PDI theories. BlueBottle suspected Patsy of posing the body with the ligatures.
The Ligatures

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?226193-The-Ligatures&p=9967170#post9967170

DeDee, I can't delight in your having changed your mind (or at least, considering it). It isn't a pleasant thought that this could happen to an innocent child by any member of the same family. Even worse that it could happen because of something that another child might have done. But it is reality.

I don't know for certain what happened, and I've never claimed to. But if anyone will at least consider this possibility (which is a lot more people now that the CBS show has aired), don't all of the weird, inexplicable, odd behaviors and happenings make more sense if that is what happened?

 

[DeDee]

DeDee, I can't delight in your having changed your mind (or at least, considering it). It isn't a pleasant thought that this could happen to an innocent child by any member of the same family. Even worse that it could happen because of something that another child might have done. But it is reality.

I don't know for certain what happened, and I've never claimed to. But if anyone will at least consider this possibility (which is a lot more people now that the CBS show has aired), don't all of the weird, inexplicable, odd behaviors and happenings make more sense if that is what happened?

Corriger, otg.

Can you tell I've been practicing my French? I learned red (rouge), white (blanc) and blue (bleu) last week!

There has never once been any delight found in me over JonBenet's gruesome murder. I surely can't claim with 100% certainty who killed JonBenet. I have opinions that are allowed to be shared on this wonderful forum.

Re-reading the SWs I remembered the BPD taking into custody a sleepmask. Would love to know which room that was found. It is listed with the evidence along with the blue suitcase. How likely is it that JonBenet was blindfolded by wearing the sleepmask in the basement or while being led there?


http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996warrant.htm

 

[lizzyk]

Just watched a program with snippets of Patsys media and police interviews......wow its like two different people!!! Such a front she puts on for the media...even her accent changes. The real patsy came through loud and clear with the police tho!