Just Patsy, only Patsy

[Chris_Texas]

I don't know why, but I just can't leave this mystery alone.

I think both parents abused JB. And I find it creepy that John R chose to volunteer with a group that helped young girls in India that were forced into prostitution.

Now that is very interesting! I had not heard that.

 

[questfortrue]

How JB was buried bothers me a LOT....(pageant outfit,crown)....maybe it was the final "victory" over JB (who maybe got tired of the beauty parade)?it could also show that busy daddy didn't really know what went on in his own home or maybe didn't even care?these pageant moms treat their girls more like accessories...don't really care about their child's feelings and opinions...

Remembered one other thing from the Bonita papers, regarding JB's burial attire. "Patsy had chosen a white, sleeveless ballerina dress with sequins, but consulted with John before making her final decision. "Are there any bruises on JonBenet's arms," she asked John. John assured her there were not, but Patsy asked him again, "Are you sure?" John replied, "JonBenet’s arms were not bruised.'' "

(Ya gotta ask yourself if she were clothed in the white top with long sleeves when she was found, how would JR know there were no bruises?)

 

[otg]

(snipped)

Good stuff, otg, thanks for posting. I'll tell you why some people wait to tell certain things, including myself...

Please don't think I was singling you out, dodie. We all do that, myself included. It's difficult for people to recognize evil for what it is -- much less confront it. When we see signs of something maybe we don't want to believe, it's easier to pass it off or attribute it to something else. Our mind naturally wants to find an innocent explanation.

This is why (I think) we see so many posters say things like, "I just don't believe _____ (fill in the blank here with any one of the R's) would be capable of doing this." And I would suggest, the investigators in Boulder might also be just as likely to do this same thing, even though they should be exposed more often to some of the evil things that people do.

If you don't believe pure evil can exist, just do a search for information on Jonathan and Sarah Adleta who were just recently sentenced for what they did to their kids. They had children for the expressed purpose of using them for their own personal abuse. But don't read about them without knowing ahead of time that some of the information will just make you want to throw up. (I'll admit, it did make my eyes tear up just reading about it.)

 

[CCKP]

Hi - long time lurker, first time poster
...well, apparently I have 71 posts but i haven't logged on since 2005 - I cant remember what I did yesterday nevermind 8 years ago

Anyway...
I have been following this story since it happened and I just finished Kolar's book.

On the discussion of 'evil', I just wanted to say something. Assuming that it was Patsy who wrote the ransom note (which in every likliehood was the case), and assuming that it was done after the murder - how the heck could she possibly have the composure to write that thing? If JBR's death was an 'accident' (ie rage induced head blow and then subsequent cover up), your child has JUST DIED. To be able to write a 3 page long, coherent (nonsensical but nonetheless it was written out in english sentences), makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Both of my parents passed away within 12 months of each other, unexpectedly but from natural causes, and the shock of it all hit me so hard, I wasn't able to think straight for days. And that was my parents, I cant even imagine my child!

My point being is this, I dont think this was any accident. I don't claim to know who struck the blow or who strangled this poor little child. However, I think Patsy was able to think straight enough to write out that note which, imo, shows very little sadness/remorse over what must have just happened, even despite her hysteria in the following days. And this being regardless of trying to save her son, if that is what actually happened.

All of course, my own opinions. I hope I was able to articulate what I have been thinking - it makes sense in my own mind

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hi - long time lurker, first time poster
...well, apparently I have 71 posts but i haven't logged on since 2005 - I cant remember what I did yesterday nevermind 8 years ago

Anyway...
I have been following this story since it happened and I just finished Kolar's book.

On the discussion of 'evil', I just wanted to say something. Assuming that it was Patsy who wrote the ransom note (which in every likliehood was the case), and assuming that it was done after the murder - how the heck could she possibly have the composure to write that thing? If JBR's death was an 'accident' (ie rage induced head blow and then subsequent cover up), your child has JUST DIED. To be able to write a 3 page long, coherent (nonsensical but nonetheless it was written out in english sentences), makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Both of my parents passed away within 12 months of each other, unexpectedly but from natural causes, and the shock of it all hit me so hard, I wasn't able to think straight for days. And that was my parents, I cant even imagine my child!

My point being is this, I dont think this was any accident. I don't claim to know who struck the blow or who strangled this poor little child. However, I think Patsy was able to think straight enough to write out that note which, imo, shows very little sadness/remorse over what must have just happened, even despite her hysteria in the following days. And this being regardless of trying to save her son, if that is what actually happened.

All of course, my own opinions. I hope I was able to articulate what I have been thinking - it makes sense in my own mind

It's simple really,
You're normal, Patsy isn't, she's is a narcissist.
All IMO

Welcome back!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dodie20]

Hi - long time lurker, first time poster
...well, apparently I have 71 posts but i haven't logged on since 2005 - I cant remember what I did yesterday nevermind 8 years ago

Anyway...
I have been following this story since it happened and I just finished Kolar's book.

On the discussion of 'evil', I just wanted to say something. Assuming that it was Patsy who wrote the ransom note (which in every likliehood was the case), and assuming that it was done after the murder - how the heck could she possibly have the composure to write that thing? If JBR's death was an 'accident' (ie rage induced head blow and then subsequent cover up), your child has JUST DIED. To be able to write a 3 page long, coherent (nonsensical but nonetheless it was written out in english sentences), makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Both of my parents passed away within 12 months of each other, unexpectedly but from natural causes, and the shock of it all hit me so hard, I wasn't able to think straight for days. And that was my parents, I cant even imagine my child!

My point being is this, I dont think this was any accident. I don't claim to know who struck the blow or who strangled this poor little child. However, I think Patsy was able to think straight enough to write out that note which, imo, shows very little sadness/remorse over what must have just happened, even despite her hysteria in the following days. And this being regardless of trying to save her son, if that is what actually happened.

All of course, my own opinions. I hope I was able to articulate what I have been thinking - it makes sense in my own mind

1st of all, welcome back stranger, lol! Not too long ago, I posted a link to a Larry King interview with the Rs and Steve Thomas. There was a point when PR challenged ST and demanded he tell her when she wrote the note...before or after she killed her daughter. It was supposed to be condescending, I'm sure, but her saying those things kind of shook me up. As far as I know, nobody had accused her of anything but an accident gone bad, (including Steve Thomas), so to hear her put the possibility out there that she wrote the note before hand, was astonishing, IMO. I had wondered about premeditation versus accident, but I always leaned towards giving her the benefit of the doubt. And her comment was so random and unexpected. It's not like ST baited her. moo

 

[dodie20]

Hi - long time lurker, first time poster
...well, apparently I have 71 posts but i haven't logged on since 2005 - I cant remember what I did yesterday nevermind 8 years ago

Anyway...
I have been following this story since it happened and I just finished Kolar's book.

On the discussion of 'evil', I just wanted to say something. Assuming that it was Patsy who wrote the ransom note (which in every likliehood was the case), and assuming that it was done after the murder - how the heck could she possibly have the composure to write that thing? If JBR's death was an 'accident' (ie rage induced head blow and then subsequent cover up), your child has JUST DIED. To be able to write a 3 page long, coherent (nonsensical but nonetheless it was written out in english sentences), makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Both of my parents passed away within 12 months of each other, unexpectedly but from natural causes, and the shock of it all hit me so hard, I wasn't able to think straight for days. And that was my parents, I cant even imagine my child!

My point being is this, I dont think this was any accident. I don't claim to know who struck the blow or who strangled this poor little child. However, I think Patsy was able to think straight enough to write out that note which, imo, shows very little sadness/remorse over what must have just happened, even despite her hysteria in the following days. And this being regardless of trying to save her son, if that is what actually happened.

All of course, my own opinions. I hope I was able to articulate what I have been thinking - it makes sense in my own mind

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0005/31/lkl.00.html Here's the interview and their exchange is about a quarter of the way down. Really though, the whole interview is chock full of information. One noticeable thing was PR over and over challenging ST to describe his theory on how she committed the murder.

 

[dodie20]

Another thing about that note. IMO, it seemed to drastically change tones. It started off kind of businessy but then abruptly switched to the 'she dies, she dies, she dies', repetition. IMO, the note may have been started before JB was murdered, but then midway, JB was murdered, and then the killer went back and finished writing the note. moo

 

[dodie20]

Here are a few interesting quotes from the interview. KING-"So you agree that whoever authored the ransom note probably killed the child"? JR-"I agree". PR-"I would agree with that". JR-"What did you find in our background that would demonstrate that we are capable of this crime"? ST-"I gave you a pass, John. Unless you want to say otherwise, I don't think you were involved". PR-"We, he said we". JR-"No, you put that book out to line your pockets with money based on our tragedy". ST-"No, that's not true. And as a matter of fact, I think you wrote a book as well and took money for that". JR-"It's going to charity". ST-"And I think you've also said it's going to a legal defense fund". ST-"But the Bible also says, without confession, there is no forgiveness". JR-"It doesn't say that."

 

[Chelly]

(respectfully snipped)

It's difficult for people to recognize evil for what it is -- much less confront it. When we see signs of something maybe we don't want to believe, it's easier to pass it off or attribute it to something else. Our mind naturally wants to find an innocent explanation.

This is why (I think) we see so many posters say things like, "I just don't believe _____ (fill in the blank here with any one of the R's) would be capable of doing this." And I would suggest, the investigators in Boulder might also be just as likely to do this same thing, even though they should be exposed more often to some of the evil things that people do.

If you don't believe pure evil can exist, just do a search for information on Jonathan and Sarah Adleta who were just recently sentenced for what they did to their kids. They had children for the expressed purpose of using them for their own personal abuse. But don't read about them without knowing ahead of time that some of the information will just make you want to throw up. (I'll admit, it did make my eyes tear up just reading about it.)

When hard-scrabble, illiterate, simple-minded members of humanity commit despicable abuse of children, we seem to somehow comprehend that "type" committing evil acts.

When the wealthy, educated, socially elite commit similar acts, we are incredulous. Fact is: rich, poor, dumb, smart, beautiful, ugly......evil does exist.

 

[questfortrue]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0005/31/lkl.00.html Here's the interview and their exchange is about a quarter of the way down. Really though, the whole interview is chock full of information. One noticeable thing was PR over and over challenging ST to describe his theory on how she committed the murder.

Thank you for bringing this forward. A statement analyst expert would have a real field day with this exchange.

That was interesting regarding PR’s insistence that ST give her a detailed account. She knew he couldn’t, so she thinks she comes across as ‘tough’, putting ST in the corner since he could not use the evidence for a fleshed-out scene.

JR seemed to dominate this interview as much as he could. He also demonstrates a temper as well as a glaring misunderstanding about “reduction ad absurdum” arguments. (Asking if ST had a dog piddle on the floor would ST kill the dog.)

Regards the sexual abuse: JR doth protest too much, methinks.

All I can say is God bless ST for having the kind of courage to face these two on national TV, all on his own. The courage of a righteous angel on behalf of JB.

All moo.

 

[Venom]

Don't forget the scarf purchased by JR and wrapped around JB's neck when she was buried. (Some sort of ritual between JR and JB?)

Pro PR did it all, arguing for a PR did it all. We can’t leave out the sexual assault on JB. From what I’ve read, it’s a horrendous situation when a mother becomes a sexual abuser of her children, because of such access to a child. There are starting to be more studies of female sex offenders/abusers. This website shares a little info about the offenders and the families. website http://mdsa-online.org/profiling-the-abusive-family/ I’ve started looking at PR as the killer, but primarily as a reaction/emotional explosion of some sort in the household.

Con PR did it all, arguing against her as the female sexual abuser. PR had JB in to see the doctor on numerous occasions, risky if she was genitally abusing JB. JB was becoming clingy to PR in December, showing some abuse escalating. If PR did it all, why is there a dictionary with the word “incest” dog-earred; why does she call the police, and, IMO, it was not part of the plan and was something that infuriated JR. Witness his response to the “awake” BR. Could be he was angry with BR, could also be he was mostly furious with PR for disrupting the plan and calling the police. In fact there was one hang-up call to 911, before the second call went through.

While I don't lean towards PR did it all (including the sexual abuse), can certainly see her breaking that night. All moo

Thanks for the link to that website. I just read through it and it seems spot on with PR.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Thank you for bringing this forward. A statement analyst expert would have a real field day with this exchange.

That was interesting regarding PR’s insistence that ST give her a detailed account. She knew he couldn’t, so she thinks she comes across as ‘tough’, putting ST in the corner since he could not use the evidence for a fleshed-out scene.

JR seemed to dominate this interview as much as he could. He also demonstrates a temper as well as a glaring misunderstanding about “reduction ad absurdum” arguments. (Asking if ST had a dog piddle on the floor would ST kill the dog.)

Regards the sexual abuse: JR doth protest too much, methinks.

All I can say is God bless ST for having the kind of courage to face these two on national TV, all on his own. The courage of a righteous angel on behalf of JB.

All moo.

Interesting too is that ST basically gave JR a "pass" on the event of JBR's murder by stating repeatedly that JR wasn't *there*......meaning he wasn't home. ST made it clear that JR wasn't just asleep in the house---and JR never discounted it.
Could be the reason why JR's fingerprints weren't on the ransom note......he wasn't even home.
So, I wonder where JR was? Girlfriend's?

 

[dodie20]

Thank you for bringing this forward. A statement analyst expert would have a real field day with this exchange.

That was interesting regarding PR’s insistence that ST give her a detailed account. She knew he couldn’t, so she thinks she comes across as ‘tough’, putting ST in the corner since he could not use the evidence for a fleshed-out scene.

JR seemed to dominate this interview as much as he could. He also demonstrates a temper as well as a glaring misunderstanding about “reduction ad absurdum” arguments. (Asking if ST had a dog piddle on the floor would ST kill the dog.)

Regards the sexual abuse: JR doth protest too much, methinks.

All I can say is God bless ST for having the kind of courage to face these two on national TV, all on his own. The courage of a righteous angel on behalf of JB.

All moo.

about JR protesting too much...JR-"Our pediatrician, who saw JonBenet a dozen times each year for the last three years before this happened, ..." His ace in the hole...boasting that JB had been to the dr over and over and over and over. Using R logic, I guess they were lucky JB didn't go to the dr as infrequently as the normal child, or they wouldn't have had the 'proof' that nothing was wrong with her. Nothing was wrong, so why did she go to the dr over and over? R logic- the same logic JR used when he called the ransom note a 'gift'. moo

 

[dodie20]

Regarding the original thread topic...I do believe if PR and JR were in on this together, he would have nixed the long note and together, they would have bought some time, at least a half of a day. PR, alone couldn't buy time and had to make do with the hours before JR woke up.

 

[Chelly]

Regarding the original thread topic...I do believe if PR and JR were in on this together, he would have nixed the long note and together, they would have bought some time, at least a half of a day. PR, alone couldn't buy time and had to make do with the hours before JR woke up.

While I tend to think all three R's were involved, this theory makes a lot of sense. It has me giving some consideration to a PR only scenario.

 

[fruity]

I think patsy was responsible for killing JonBenet and that she staged it alone, but I think John came down when she was writing the ransom note and she had to confess. There's no other way John would have known where to find the body, and he wouldnt have been willing to leave town so quickly if he didn't know who killed his daughter.

 

[txsvicki]

In reading the linked interview with Steve Thomas, the Ramsey's, and Larry King, ST didn't say John wasn't home, but that he claimed to be asleep during the murder, so could not know who did it, because he didn't witness anything. But, Patsy sure changed the subject quick and deflected when Steve pointed out that JonBenet was killed by strangulation and not the head injury.

 

[dodie20]

In reading the linked interview with Steve Thomas, the Ramsey's, and Larry King, ST didn't say John wasn't home, but that he claimed to be asleep during the murder, so could not know who did it, because he didn't witness anything. But, Patsy sure changed the subject quick and deflected when Steve pointed out that JonBenet was killed by strangulation and not the head injury.

Somebody linked an article a few days ago where ST was asked about JR being home or gone and he called it the million dollar question or the $118,000 question. Him saying this made me think that maybe LE had their suspicions. I know I do, because somebody had to feel real confident to sit down and write a 3 page ransom note, kwim? I don't care what his normal pattern was, how could PR be sure that JR wouldn't wander down to find out why she wasn't in bed? and there he'd find her, writing a crazy ransom note. I can't put my finger on why, but this whole thing has the feel that PR had complete free rein of the house. About the deflection on the strangulation...I noticed it from PR and JR both, probably because building the garrote proves premeditation.

 

[ahoyhoy]

(Sorry if this is the wrong thread. Excuse my prattling here, in advance.)

WHOEVER murdered JB, whoever abused her, Patsy wrote that note, no question. (moo)

Why were the last few lines so personal, angry at John? It tells me that even if JR was not involved in anything Christmas night, Patsy still blamed JR for what happened, at least somewhat. Either for 'choosing' JB over Patsy in the first place (chronic molestation), or if BR did it---maybe Patsy saw it as John's choosing his son over JB, in that John did not step in and help her control BR, or take BR's angry behavior seriously like Patsy had---buying self-help books, etc.

The doctor's visits, calls to Dr, etc...don't seem like something that the actual molester would do, for fear of being caught. Perhaps Patsy was trying desperately to get the Dr. to NOTICE the molestation without having to actually report it, because Patsy herself felt helpless to stop the male/s in that house? It would be just like Patsy to need a MAN (male Dr.) to validate her, when no one in her house would. jmo

(I had not heard that there might be a tiny question as to whether JR was even home when JB died---to me, that would really make PR blame JR for JB's death. )

Regardless if John was home, or asleep, or innocent in the molestation**---Patsy still expressed blame toward John in the note.

So what all is John to blame for in Patsy's mind that night? Actual molestation, actual killing, or maybe John's failure to stop Burke, John's failure to listen to Patsy for months/years, when she was freaking out that her 'prized child' was being molested and/or regularly hurt by her brother? Or was John's 'blame' simply that he over-stressed Patsy with ALL the childcare and trip preparation; maybe Patsy thought the child-abuse 'accident' would never have happened if John had offered more help, or had not pressured Patsy (in her mind) for everything to be so perfect to outside eyes? (And perhaps Patsy's need for perfection was behind the cleaning of JB---washing away the 'sin' committed against her body?)

My worst scenario is that Patsy bought the cord & tape at the store weeks in advance, planned it somewhat, to take JB away from John/Burke & the molestation, perhaps a sacrifice to 'save' JB. ? This theory is the most chilling, but if anyone was crazy enough to think that sending JB to heaven was a great option, it would have been Patsy frickin' Ramsey. If ANYONE would have wanted control over JB forever, it was Patsy. Perhaps the fear of her cancer returning, losing the ability to control and/or protect JB, instigated PR's 'preparations'?

(**Imo, the over-sized Bloomies, JR's wool fibers in JB's crotch area, and JR's suspicious movements/disappearing on the 26th indicate he WAS at least involved in the staging after the death. Even if completely innocent otherwise.)

Again, forgive me if I've repeated myself, or droned on & on here. I just read anger in that note, and I want to know what exactly Patsy blamed John for.

Thanks to anyone who actually read all this. If I've gotten any details terribly wrong, go easy on me, y'all! :truce:


ETA: I love Websleuths! I love reading these threads, ALL your theories, and best of all---I LOVE turning others onto WS. You guys are the BEST.