Killer Cults?

And I would agree with you, but blaming one specific group which has nothing at all to do with any of the horrible things we read about is wrong. It is wrong and it is irresponsible. This isn't the first time people have come here trying to blame the Temple of Set for things they had nothing to do with and I feel that is irresponsible and I will speak up about it. He's not talking about one person in a group, he's talking about the entire group. One person killing people is not a conspiracy. Two people is not a conspiracy. Blaming an entire group and in this case an entire religion is. That is exactly what happened in the Johnny Gosch thread and that's what's going to happen here. We'll just blame the Satanists because we want to. It's easier to let that myth cloud our judgment than it is to look at anything else. Trying to be the voice of reason on the subject is especially difficult around here.

Who is the he you are referring to in your post? Did you mean Geraldo?

I honestly don't believe that anyone here is blaming the Temple of Set over any other religion or group. I think we all are thinking this is more of an extremist fringe group of someone's own making, doing their own thing, obviously very much unbeknownst to others. I am beginning to think of this group almost as a murder club..along the lines of fightclubs. That somehow found each other on the internet and were able to organize and expand. Somone like Manson perhaps..who would never in his life have been able to be a follower of any other belief system or rules but his own.

What are your particular theories on who might be behind this group of individuals?
 
Capt...welcome...you said this:

Another problem is, giving information that can place someone in danger by identifing methods and situations related to that person by others in the group. I'll give what I feel I can give safely for those involved. I am sure if one of the group read what I have wrote so far, they would know I am talking about them. Because this was in a health care situation, I am more concerned with the individuals health than I am trying to solve some crime which if I did, would only be by some "ham fisted" attempt.

Capt, were any of those 'methods' you mentioned in common with the way that cults can use to torture someone without leaving a mark (previous link above a few times)?

Without disclosing any info that could harm yourself or other professionals...have you been concerned that members you have interfaced with could have the motive and connection to be responsible here?

TIA, capt... I am respect your distance as a fellow health care professional.
 
Capt, I again echo what you are saying and I have been "thinking" what you said in the following from the get~go in one way, shape or form:

I would say most if not all are college graduates and professional people. They do not need the colleges for victims. It is my belief that their own group provides many victims. Might be able to call it hazing after a year or so. More so, I do feel they want the members to "believe" they are guilty of a felony for control over them.

Have you contacted authorities, or at least the NY dicks, retired, with this info...or are they already on it (from msm interviews I would assume that they are already very well aware of this group you are talking about since they were confident they even had enough data to arrest POIs...)

You also, with your professional respect of HIPAA, must surely struggle with personal (including your family) safety vs the laws of mandatory reporting. I do not not know you or your family but as a healthcare professional, I know that in a time like this the mandatory reporting would absolutely take a backseat to personal safety. If you happen to be in this boat I would pass the info on either annonymously or through another channel. However, if you have info on anything hinkey that can stop this absolutly WRONG series of crimes...you should FOR SURE pass this on in some way, shape, or form to someone who can stop it right in it's tracks immediately. This story has the attention of the MSM and they are a powerful tool.

I wish you God speed and pray that, if you know anything that can truly help, that you forward it to the change agents that can put this dog in his doghouse. Simply posting it here and stating personal fear and HIPAA are not enough. There are many lives already lost and many more that could follow.
 
Who is the he you are referring to in your post? Did you mean Geraldo?

I honestly don't believe that anyone here is blaming the Temple of Set over any other religion or group. I think we all are thinking this is more of an extremist fringe group of someone's own making, doing their own thing, obviously very much unbeknownst to others. I am beginning to think of this group almost as a murder club..along the lines of fightclubs. That somehow found each other on the internet and were able to organize and expand. Somone like Manson perhaps..who would never in his life have been able to be a follower of any other belief system or rules but his own.

What are your particular theories on who might be behind this group of individuals?

I echo DD sentiments and am interested in any input you might have as to theory-
 
Capt, I again echo what you are saying and I have been "thinking" what you said in the following from the get~go in one way, shape or form:



Have you contacted authorities, or at least the NY dicks, retired, with this info...or are they already on it (from msm interviews I would assume that they are already very well aware of this group you are talking about since they were confident they even had enough data to arrest POIs...)

You also, with your professional respect of HIPAA, must surely struggle with personal (including your family) safety vs the laws of mandatory reporting. I do not not know you or your family but as a healthcare professional, I know that in a time like this the mandatory reporting would absolutely take a backseat to personal safety. If you happen to be in this boat I would pass the info on either annonymously or through another channel. However, if you have info on anything hinkey that can stop this absolutly WRONG series of crimes...you should FOR SURE pass this on in some way, shape, or form to someone who can stop it right in it's tracks immediately. This story has the attention of the MSM and they are a powerful tool.

I wish you God speed and pray that, if you know anything that can truly help, that you forward it to the change agents that can put this dog in his doghouse. Simply posting it here and stating personal fear and HIPAA are not enough. There are many lives already lost and many more that could follow.
NBM- just closing the loop, I posted this on the general thread to you as well-
The detectives have this info, I thought your post was responsible and eloquent.
 
If I recall, nobody has mentioned Temple of Set, Gosch, or any organised groups of the Church of Satan until Eire mentioned it.

I was describing a group of nondescript, self-styled, wide based satanists, who I have had personal experience with.
(I would describe Richard Ramirez the same way)

It goes without saying that there are people that are not happy that I have had this experience and more displeased that I talk about it. Since it is my experience, they find it hard to argue its happening and can only try to discredit the source.


Since this thread is about killing cults in regards to the area in question, I mentioned it.

I don't have a scenario for the male drownings other than proof of allegiance of other members to the group. I suppose if the victims were members, it might have something to do with a suicide pact, but I think that is highly unlikely.

I am sure local authorities are informed. I have a good friend in the public defender office in the area and he knows about them.

Just a note: I don't look at these things from a religious background as I am an atheist.
 
Without a mark? Sure it's possible with chemicals/meds, but there might be a needle mark.

As far as the other question, yes it is possible, but still conjecture.




Capt...welcome...you said this:

Capt, were any of those 'methods' you mentioned in common with the way that cults can use to torture someone without leaving a mark (previous link above a few times)?

Without disclosing any info that could harm yourself or other professionals...have you been concerned that members you have interfaced with could have the motive and connection to be responsible here?

TIA, capt... I am respect your distance as a fellow health care professional.
 
Without a mark? Sure it's possible with chemicals/meds, but there might be a needle mark.

As far as the other question, yes it is possible, but still conjecture.


Following up on SS question is a general way-
What is the obligation if any, on a part of a Health Care or Medical provider, in the event that suspicion would become more than coonjecture to alert LE?
 
Following up on SS question is a general way-
What is the obligation if any, on a part of a Health Care or Medical provider, in the event that suspicion would become more than coonjecture to alert LE?

I think SS statements would be correct. As far as the threshold of alert, I would say it is prior knowledge of a illegal upcoming event, which would place the client in 72hr observation, and possibly destroy any trust bond that existed. So the LE would not be called unless there was reason to believe a crime will be commited. Anything else on past crimes is hearsay and unless the client would be willing to testify is useless.
That is the way I see it.
Bye now I gotta get some work done.
 
Thanks for the response, Capt. At least, it tells me a few things reading between the lines. I understand where you are coming from in that you are trying to give only generalized information. (I also understand where Nurse is coming from, too.)

We all want this to stop and would want all information directly given to the people who are willing to make it stop. I was encouraged by the blog on the news site today of people who were sending in tips and knowing they were being forwarded to those concerned. It has been difficult to sit here day after day and knowing that the various police departments have literally turned a blind eye to people wanting this solved and offering help to that end.

I can't imagine how the families must feel! The frustration, the brickwalls, and the possibility they will never know what happened to their rising stars. I applaud the Detectives. They are their only hope to right the injustice and bring to light the incompetence surrounding each of the investigations. My hope is that when this all comes out, LE is going to have to rethink the way they handle situations in the future to save other families from going through such hell.

By the way, Capt. I have no doubt about what you are saying is true. Thanks for bringing it to the table. People need to understand it isn't about attacking one group or another as Eire seems to think. I know for a fact these groups DO exist and have seen proof of it (LE has that proof). Being from the midsection of America, you would never expect it to happen here...but it has and I have to believe it continues. This isn't anything new and it has been going on for 20 years plus (only from my direct knowledge as I am sure it went on long before).
 
I think SS statements would be correct. As far as the threshold of alert, I would say it is prior knowledge of a illegal upcoming event, which would place the client in 72hr observation, and possibly destroy any trust bond that existed. So the LE would not be called unless there was reason to believe a crime will be committed. Anything else on past crimes is hearsay and unless the client would be willing to testify is useless.
That is the way I see it.
While I realize "That is the way [you] see it," I do hope, as a mental health provider (MHP), your informed consent covers the following two legal exceptions to the confidentiality clause.

  • Duty to report => if the MHP suspects their client is abusing a child, the MHP must report said "suspected abuse" to the proper authorities. This is a direct result of the 1974 CAPTA legislation.

  • Duty to warn => if the client conveys a threat of future harm to a known party, the MHP must not only contact LE but must also make a reasonable effort to contact the potential victim. This ruling was a direct result of Tarasoff v. Regents of the University of California

As far as the 72-hour hold bit? Involuntary psychiatric holds vary from state to state and are expressly dependent upon the state's MH treatment codes. For example, Florida has a 72 hour hold, under the "Baker Act," California has a 72 hour hold, referred to as a "5150" under the "Lanterman-Petris-Short Act," and Pennsylvania has a 120 hour hold under the "Mental Health Procedures Act." What "involuntary psychiatric holds" do share however is the basic criteria of a person being a danger to self or others. The latter, not to be confused with "duty to warn." Furthermore, an MHP cannot put anyone on a psychiatric hold. In fact, LE are responsible for putting an individual on psychiatric hold by transporting said individual to a designated facility, at which point an acting licensed physician (PhD or MD) is the only one who can release the individual from the hold prior to the maximum alloted hold time as designated by that state's MH treatment code.

As for the HIPAA bit? HIPAA was enacted in 1996 to address electronic storage and communications issues for insurance providers, primarily, and actuarial researchers, secondarily. Under HIPAA, as with paper records, electronic records must be kept for a minimum of 7 years. Additionally, the stored data must be deidentified and the electronic transfer of data must conform to x.25 protocol as set forth by the HIPAA steering committee. And finally, while confidentiality—which has been around since well before anyone ever dreamed up the HIPAA acronym—is the basis of this law, HIPAA addresses a very narrow area with regard to confidentiality rules. Or otherwise put, HIPAA simply does not apply to this particular discussion.
 
Thanks shadow for the specifics, I gave the quick and easy answer.


these 2 didn't apply to this situation. No child involved and no future upcoming event with a known person.
*******
Duty to report => if the MHP suspects their client is abusing a child, the MHP must report said "suspected abuse" to the proper authorities. This is a direct result of the 1974 CAPTA legislation



Duty to warn => if the client conveys a threat of future harm to a known party, the MHP must not only contact LE but must also make a reasonable effort to contact the potential victim. This ruling was a direct result of Tarasoff v. Regents of the University of California
 
capt, nice that no child was involved. But can that make you sleep any easier keeping it private as a 'professional'?

Duty to report and compelled to report as a professional are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FEELING GROUPS.

Your lack of reporting SPEAKS VOLUMES TO ME AS A FELLOW MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL!
 
could you, be more direct?

Are you accusing me of not reporting something that in my situation was really impossible to report with hard info? Wouldn't you need to know the particulars of that situation to accuse somebody of that? What EXACTLY did I fail to report?

I'll admit that I am not that vested in this site(certainly not a sleuth) and sometimes try to give the quick and easy answer to questions to give room to my real life.
 
I appreciate your input, Capt. People are frustrated about these cases and want answers.

I respect that without any hard evidence it is just hearsay. However, I would like to know as much as you are comfortable with saying. There is no reason for you to have to be defensive here and sorry that has happened. We all have one goal and that is to find everything we can which can shed some light on these occurances.
 
could you, be more direct?

Are you accusing me of not reporting something that in my situation was really impossible to report with hard info? Wouldn't you need to know the particulars of that situation to accuse somebody of that? What EXACTLY did I fail to report?

I'll admit that I am not that vested in this site(certainly not a sleuth) and sometimes try to give the quick and easy answer to questions to give room to my real life.

Capt- I do not feel I am in a position to judge you and I feel you have been upfront that your posts must be floabw, "loose". We are all entitled to our anonymity here, especially considering the subject matter on this thread. Please continue to contribute as I feel strongly that you have more to offer even as "generalizations"
 
If I have read the post wrong then I apologize to nursebeeme. I have reported all that I should legally and withheld all that I legally should. I really have few generalizations to share as most my experience is with this particular group and with past members that want to stay that way. It would be very easy for me to go into depth of the extremes I have heard, seen, or learned, but I see no reason to become a lightening rod for those that think it is unbelievable, plus that's not what this thread is for. Debate is not what I'm after, nor am I trying to make someone believe.

If you would like insight from a survivor of abuse, please go to this site.

http://lynnsart.net
 
Interesting Capt and I agree you have legally done what is right by all accounts. I also agree that there is more to this group then meets the eye and the detectives are being as open as they can without over stepping ..an early arrest of a few would not solve this entire case..because much and many more are involved and it goes deeper then we expect..again those are just my feelings..I have no credible info or facts to base this premise.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
178
Guests online
4,450
Total visitors
4,628

Forum statistics

Threads
592,485
Messages
17,969,529
Members
228,783
Latest member
Smokylotus
Back
Top