Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #13 *Arrest*

[kkdj]

Wow, a lot more details today! Thanks for the new info, PB!

I don't have anything to add, but I'm still trying to follow as best I can. I really think he's going to be found soon. I think that it's pretty clear it wasn't premeditated at this point, so she very well may confess. At least that's what I'm going to believe

Did we ever get actual, verified information about why they were thinking Chisholm Creek Park? I know there was a MSM article quoting a FB group about cell pings, but did we ever get anything more reliable?

BBM
I don't think it was premeditated either which is one of the main reasons (at this point) I think he is nearby. She had to be in a panic as far as what to do.

 

[MsMarple]

The landlord stopped by the rental house around 5:30 p.m. on Feb. 16th. He saw Lucas peeking out a window. That is all I know about the encounter.

I do not know what he did upon seeing Lucas. I do not know if he knew that Lucas was home alone or if he found out at a later date when questioned by detectives. I do not know which room Lucas was in at the time.


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Thanks for the info ! I was unsure about the landlord's visit.

According to the affidavit, Glass made calls on the 16th from the vicinity near OG (about 2.5 miles away from S. Edgemoor) at 4:53pm and 5:43pm. Since the landlord stopped by around 5:30 on the 16th and saw Lucas peeking out a window it's very likely that he was alone in the house at that time.

It also means that it's not likely that Lucas was restrained in some way in the house.

Ugh, poor little guy, what a nasty thing to do to a 5-year-old!! :furious:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/nxs-ksnwtv-... Child Case_1520964691832_36986193_ver1.0.pdf

 

[liltexans]

I think whatever was done to Lucas was premeditated. Premeditation can happen quickly. Here’s an example.

https://lawshelf.com/courseware/entry/murder

The first is premeditated killings where the defendant formed the intent to kill through a process of reasoning or deliberation (as opposed to a homicide committed on a sudden impulse which is not first degree murder). Please note that premeditation does not require any specific amount of time. In other words, the process of deliberation or reasoning that the defendant uses in deciding to commit the homicide does not have to take very long. In fact, the time between forming the intent to kill and the actual homicidal act can be almost instantaneous. For example:

Pedro is walking home from baseball practice when Nomar jumps out from behind a car and sucker punches him. Pedro picks himself up off the ground and grabs the baseball bat that he has been holding. As Pedro raises the bat above his head, he decides that he is going to kill Nomar for punching him. No sooner has Pedro decided this than he swings the bat, hits Nomar in the back of the head and kills him instantly. In this case, Pedro has committed first degree murder. Although Pedro formed the intent to kill an instant before he actually killed Nomar, the length of time between the formation of intent and the act of homicide is enough for Pedro to form a premeditation to commit murder. So long as the intent to kill was formed before the homicidal act, the killing can be first degree murder. See State v. Watson, 449 S.E.2d 694 (N.C. 1994).

 

[I'm their mom]

I'm missing sweet Lucas tonight and I never even met him. Where are you, angel?:candle:

 

[Somer]

I think whatever was done to Lucas was premeditated. Premeditation can happen quickly.

Agree 100%.

 

[GigTu]

I think whatever was done to Lucas was premeditated. Premeditation can happen quickly. Here’s an example.

https://lawshelf.com/courseware/entry/murder

The first is premeditated killings where the defendant formed the intent to kill through a process of reasoning or deliberation (as opposed to a homicide committed on a sudden impulse which is not first degree murder). Please note that premeditation does not require any specific amount of time. In other words, the process of deliberation or reasoning that the defendant uses in deciding to commit the homicide does not have to take very long. In fact, the time between forming the intent to kill and the actual homicidal act can be almost instantaneous. For example:

Pedro is walking home from baseball practice when Nomar jumps out from behind a car and sucker punches him. Pedro picks himself up off the ground and grabs the baseball bat that he has been holding. As Pedro raises the bat above his head, he decides that he is going to kill Nomar for punching him. No sooner has Pedro decided this than he swings the bat, hits Nomar in the back of the head and kills him instantly. In this case, Pedro has committed first degree murder. Although Pedro formed the intent to kill an instant before he actually killed Nomar, the length of time between the formation of intent and the act of homicide is enough for Pedro to form a premeditation to commit murder. So long as the intent to kill was formed before the homicidal act, the killing can be first degree murder. See State v. Watson, 449 S.E.2d 694 (N.C. 1994).

Thanks, Liltexans.

In the case of the baseball bat example, the person could argue self defense and at least cause a jury to question intent.

In little Lucas' case, it was either accidental or as you say, premeditated. Accidental due to negligence, what does tjat look like in a court of law?

Freaking out and hiding a body, what does that look like in the court?

 

[enw10110]

BBM
I don't think it was premeditated either which is one of the main reasons (at this point) I think he is nearby. She had to be in a panic as far as what to do.

Yep. I've gone all over with my theories, but now I'm thinking private land a little ways outside the city, right over a fence. It probably took her until the next evening to start to calm down enough to pull off her whole "he's missing!" performance.

 

[GigTu]

Henry.... [emoji813]beat:

 

[ScarlettLin]

I think whatever was done to Lucas was premeditated. Premeditation can happen quickly. Here’s an example.

https://lawshelf.com/courseware/entry/murder

The first is premeditated killings where the defendant formed the intent to kill through a process of reasoning or deliberation (as opposed to a homicide committed on a sudden impulse which is not first degree murder). Please note that premeditation does not require any specific amount of time. In other words, the process of deliberation or reasoning that the defendant uses in deciding to commit the homicide does not have to take very long. In fact, the time between forming the intent to kill and the actual homicidal act can be almost instantaneous. For example:

Pedro is walking home from baseball practice when Nomar jumps out from behind a car and sucker punches him. Pedro picks himself up off the ground and grabs the baseball bat that he has been holding. As Pedro raises the bat above his head, he decides that he is going to kill Nomar for punching him. No sooner has Pedro decided this than he swings the bat, hits Nomar in the back of the head and kills him instantly. In this case, Pedro has committed first degree murder. Although Pedro formed the intent to kill an instant before he actually killed Nomar, the length of time between the formation of intent and the act of homicide is enough for Pedro to form a premeditation to commit murder. So long as the intent to kill was formed before the homicidal act, the killing can be first degree murder. See State v. Watson, 449 S.E.2d 694 (N.C. 1994).

To add to this-
Yes premeditation can happen in seconds
My uncle came home from work and startled a burglar. The burglar could have escaped undetected through several routes. Instead he took my uncle’s gun from the nightstand and positioned himself to shoot my uncle as he came in the front door.
Premeditated. In seconds.


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[Henry2326]

Henry.... [emoji813]beat:

Hugs my friend

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[margarita25]

Family concerned about Wichita boy's welfare before he went missing

WICHITA, Kan. (KAKE) -
As the search continues for 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez, the boy's family returned to their home late Monday along with the FBI. Relatives watching from afar say it's not the first time an investigator was called there.

Wichita police say the boy's stepmother last saw Lucas at around 3 p.m. Saturday. She then took a shower and fell asleep, and officers were notified around 6:15 p.m. that the boy was missing.

Sally Rasmussen is Lucas' great aunt, who spoke with KAKE News from her home in New Mexico. She says was sent a photo of Lucas last year and saw multiple bruises on his face and neck. She called police.

"All these stories I'd been hearing for months about him possibly being abused," she said.

http://www.kake.com/story/37541152/...utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_KAKEnews

"Bruises on his face and neck"

"Neck" being the key word here possibly, moo. Suddenly sticks out like a sore thumb...

**********

I've been away for a few days due to major movement in Northern Colorado Shootings Thread (there has been an arrest in relation to 2 of the shootings!! With hopefully more charges to come!), but have still been checking in here and msm for updates on Lucas.

Again, I really wish I could read every post here. In other threads over the years I have seen some "cases" in which people get snarky, etc....I've seen none of that here so far, and everyone has really been so encouraging and helpful and working so well as a team for this little guy. Again, some real WS heavy hitters here imo and I wish I could read all thoughts...the new members here have also been especially great!!

What's the latest with TES? Are they still there? What's the latest on the search efforts for Lucas...anything new? Any developments?

*****

Bringing fwd the latest msm:

No sign of Lucas Hernandez nearly a month after disappearance
Posted: Mar 16, 2018 8:52 AM MDT
Updated:Mar 16, 2018 2:49 PM MDT
http://www.kake.com/story/37741815/no-sign-of-lucas-hernandez-nearly-a-month-after-disappearance

"WICHITA, Kan. (KAKE) -

Where is Lucas Hernandez? It's a question burning in the hearts and minds of many in the Wichita community and across the nation.

After tireless efforts from police and volunteers, the 5-year-old Wichita boy is no closer to being found. Saturday marks a month since he was reported missing."

"He has become Wichita's son and we've got to bring him home,"..."

*****

("No closer to being found? Possibly subjective, imo, as who knows what's going on behind the scenes and what LE has learned thus far, moo)

 

[enw10110]

I think whatever was done to Lucas was premeditated. Premeditation can happen quickly. Here’s an example.

https://lawshelf.com/courseware/entry/murder

The first is premeditated killings where the defendant formed the intent to kill through a process of reasoning or deliberation (as opposed to a homicide committed on a sudden impulse which is not first degree murder). Please note that premeditation does not require any specific amount of time. In other words, the process of deliberation or reasoning that the defendant uses in deciding to commit the homicide does not have to take very long. In fact, the time between forming the intent to kill and the actual homicidal act can be almost instantaneous. For example:

Pedro is walking home from baseball practice when Nomar jumps out from behind a car and sucker punches him. Pedro picks himself up off the ground and grabs the baseball bat that he has been holding. As Pedro raises the bat above his head, he decides that he is going to kill Nomar for punching him. No sooner has Pedro decided this than he swings the bat, hits Nomar in the back of the head and kills him instantly. In this case, Pedro has committed first degree murder. Although Pedro formed the intent to kill an instant before he actually killed Nomar, the length of time between the formation of intent and the act of homicide is enough for Pedro to form a premeditation to commit murder. So long as the intent to kill was formed before the homicidal act, the killing can be first degree murder. See State v. Watson, 449 S.E.2d 694 (N.C. 1994).

Yeah, that makes sense. I just don't think that there was ever a time when she thought she was going to kill him. I think she beat him like she always did because she's terrible, and this time it went too far, probably because he was already weak from being so sick or previously injured. I hope you're right though because I'd prefer to see her charged with 1st degree murder.

Either way, it was probably impulsive, and she was probably thinking "What did I just do!?" Which also suggests a closer site.

 

[liltexans]

Thanks, Liltexans.

In the case of the baseball bat example, the person could argue self defense and at least cause a jury to question intent.

In little Lucas' case, it was either accidental or as you say, premeditated. Accidental due to negligence, what does tjat look like in a court of law?

Freaking out and hiding a body, what does that look like in the court?

We would need a lawyer to answer those questions. But Lucas was tiny, maybe 40 pounds or so. Any adult would reasonably know that kicking him, punching him, or strangling him would likely kill him. And if they started one of those actions or something similar and didn’t stop, then that is premeditated. They had made the decision to continue beating or choking or whatever the action was.

I also don’t think she panicked. I’m not seeing that. Lucas hasn’t been found, EG hasn’t been charged with murder, and she seems cool as a cucumber in her statements, defending herself.

 

[ScarlettLin]

"Bruises on his face and neck"

"Neck" being the key word here possibly, moo. Suddenly sticks out like a sore thumb...

**********

I've been away for a few days due to major movement in Northern Colorado Shootings Thread (there has been an arrest in relation to 2 of the shootings!! With hopefully more charges to come!), but have still been checking in here for updates on Lucas.

Again, I really wish I could read every post here. In other threads over the years I have seen some "cases" in which people get snarky, etc....I've seen none of that here so far, and everyone has really been so encouraging and helpful and working so well as a team for this little guy. Again, some real WS heavy hitters here imo and I wish I could read all thoughts...the new members here have also been especially great!!

What's the latest with TES? Are they still there? What's the latest on the search efforts for Lucas...anything new? Any developments?

TES left but they trained some local volunteers and left their cell phone #s for questions. They are working close with LE and said if any new info comes in they’ll come back. I think they had another commitment to attend to.


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[Jewels53]

Thanks, Liltexans.

In the case of the baseball bat example, the person could argue self defense and at least cause a jury to question intent.

In little Lucas' case, it was either accidental or as you say, premeditated. Accidental due to negligence, what does tjat look like in a court of law?

Freaking out and hiding a body, what does that look like in the court?

I think they could just be classified as different levels of murder. Like 2nd degree or manslaughter for example. Usually premeditated is 1st degree. Now I am not a lawyer just from what I have seen happen. imo jmo

 

[ScarlettLin]

Thanks, Liltexans.

In the case of the baseball bat example, the person could argue self defense and at least cause a jury to question intent.

In little Lucas' case, it was either accidental or as you say, premeditated. Accidental due to negligence, what does tjat look like in a court of law?

Freaking out and hiding a body, what does that look like in the court?

IANAL but
I had to take some courses on levels of charges for my degree
Accidental due to negligence can be 1st degree murder - if they can show a pattern that is likely to result in death
Or it can simply be negligent homicide which is not much time in the long run.
Or it can be anything in between
It really depends on what evidence they have to compel one charge over another.

Freaking out and hiding a body is a crime all in itself. At the very least it’s obstruction and concealing evidence. There’s another term too but I can’t remember what it is at the moment.


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[RMT953]

Does anyone know if any aerial searches (other than drones) have been done?


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[ZoriahNZ]

IANAL but

Freaking out and hiding a body is a crime all in itself. At the very least it’s obstruction and concealing evidence. There’s another term too but I can’t remember what it is at the moment.

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SBM

Interference with a dead body, perhaps?

 

[WillenFan21]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but about abdondon worn out buildings in the city or construction sites? Are there any of those near where EG and JH lived? What if she dumped him one of them and buried him in stuff?

 

[MsMarple]

We would need a lawyer to answer those questions. But Lucas was tiny, maybe 40 pounds or so. Any adult would reasonably know that kicking him, punching him, or strangling him would likely kill him. And if they started one of those actions or something similar and didn’t stop, then that is premeditated. They had made the decision to continue beating or choking or whatever the action was.

I also don’t think she panicked. I’m not seeing that. Lucas hasn’t been found, EG hasn’t been charged with murder, and she seems cool as a cucumber in her statements, defending herself.

I'm on board with you and others who think Lucas' murder was premeditated. Like you say, it can happen in a matter of seconds, and it's common sense that an adult outweighing a child should (as a reasonable person) know that to use more force or to continue hitting will likely end with the child's death. Yet they don't stop. That's murder IMO.

I don't subscribe to the "snapped" defense and I'm not a lawyer so this is just my own reasoning and opinion. But we've seen cases here where the murder of a child due to blunt force trauma has resulted in a charge of first-degree murder. Caliyah McNabb and Erica Parsons are good examples.

In these types of cases more often than not we see a history of abuse and the child is ultimately killed when the abuse goes one step too far. IMO that doesn't imply a caregiver snapping but rather a caregiver who got too comfortable in their abuse and chose not to stop. MOO.